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Thread: Hajime no Ippo

  1. #3041
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    Default Re: Hajime no Ippo

    Hate is such a strong word but I have to admit if there's any character I'm starting to truly dislike lately then it has to be Ippo himself because I just find him and his antics outside of the ring utterly unbearable. This is a problem I'm not having with Ippo himself but rather with a creative decision that mangakas make in long running series such as this series or Detective Conan (or heck, even One Piece on certain aspects) to mention other prominent names. It's when certain aspects about the character don't develop beyond a certain point be it because they are not meant to be or they are meant to happend at the endgame which with series that are running too long just get's stretched out.

    Prime examples here is the romantic relation ship with (what was the name of that selfish piece of wood Ippo likes and who's also Mashiba's little sister?). I would like to say it's moving at a snails pace but that would huge understatement. It's more like a car with a flat tire that just doesn't get fixed and says stranded in the middle of nowhere. Detective Conan was like this with Satou and Takagi too but the mangaka realized at some point that it needs to be concluded. So they finally became a couple but since it's an aspect of the series the readers to like we just recycled that with Chiba and his girl and then with some others. All in the meanwhile guys like Hattori and Kazuha moving nowhere and same with Shinichi and Ran. But at least the characters have enough of a personality that doesn't want me to punch them in the face for being too clueless about the world so I can bear with that. But Ippo is so terrible outside of the ring be it not getting romantic advances and being overly a goody two shoes that I really cringe eveytime I just see him. That's why this entire retirement phase is such a terrible slog. The only times it actually is interesting to me is when Ippo's new found perspective actually makes him realize something about boxing he didn't see before. Because at that point his brains seems to be working and no matter how little of a new realization he's made at least it means he's developed in some point. Anything else bout him however is a hard pass for me lately.



  2. #3042

    Default Re: Hajime no Ippo

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivotas View Post
    That's the point I don't get. I mean what's to say that Wolly's skillset is unearned? Yes, he didn't have much of a professional boxers experience before he got to Ippo but at no point would I consider his skills and talents to come unearned. To me at least it's clear that he honed those them living the life he did. And it was only thanks to someone else but him who saw this and wanted to take this to the world of professional boxing to make a quick buck.
    I don't know if some wires were crossed here but my main problem with Woli is more that he isn't an Ippo character. He has none of the grounding any other character does, his skillset is not plausible within the reality that every other character functions and him existing as a literal superhuman in a world where baseline reality has mostly been upheld is one step too far away from the core premise of this train til you sweat explain the process behind it boxing manga.

  3. #3043
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    Default Re: Hajime no Ippo

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfwood View Post
    I don't know if some wires were crossed here but my main problem with Woli is more that he isn't an Ippo character. He has none of the grounding any other character does, his skillset is not plausible within the reality that every other character functions and him existing as a literal superhuman in a world where baseline reality has mostly been upheld is one step too far away from the core premise of this train til you sweat explain the process behind it boxing manga.
    I see. I guess I just don't see it having crossed that far into the fantastic then because I just don't consider any sports manga to be grounded. Don't get me wrong, I do get what you mean it's just that to me it's not how I perceive the world. Now if something like magic or actual superpowers like Devil Fruits, Chakra, Quirks or whatnot would be thrown in then I'd probably feel like a line has been crossed. Wolly however is just an extreme version of a specific stereotype that hasn't appeared in the series yet but doesn't seem out of world in a series where it is possible to punch a bear do death with your bare fists (yeah, I'm totally riding this one wave home) XD But as I said, I do get where you are coming from.



  4. #3044

    Default Re: Hajime no Ippo

    Now that i think about it, didn't he just stun the mama bear and Nekota being the one who shot her? Changes nothing really since cold cocking a bear is still y'know, punching out a bear. But i just remembered that bear stew gag where Taka got pissed and scarfed down the whole stew in her honor.

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    Default Re: Hajime no Ippo

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfwood View Post
    Now that i think about it, didn't he just stun the mama bear and Nekota being the one who shot her? Changes nothing really since cold cocking a bear is still y'know, punching out a bear. But i just remembered that bear stew gag where Taka got pissed and scarfed down the whole stew in her honor.
    Haha, if that's true I completely remembered it wrong. Might totally be that way. Unlike One Piece I've never read any chapter more than once so chances are high that I'm totally off with everything I've said above about Takamura PUNCHING A BEAR TO DEATH WITH HIS BARE HANDS!!!

    Sorry mate, had to say it. Can't act now as if I've never said this. A true captain goes down with his ship.^^



  6. #3046
    The English Avenger Satsuki's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hajime no Ippo

    It's true that Ippo desperately needs more character development. I think the last we saw of that is when he almost went ballistic on Aoki's brother (name?) and slapped him into infinity. Takamura told him he needed to cross the line to make it in the world, and we've seen it. Now we just need to get Ippo back into the damn ring.

    Then again I liked how realistically they dealt with his brain damage. Something like that is not to be taken lightly, so I actually approved when Ippo made the big decision to retire. It's just that this is a boxing manga so Ippo needs to keep boxing to be the main character.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivotas View Post
    Prime examples here is the romantic relation ship with (what was the name of that selfish piece of wood Ippo likes and who's also Mashiba's little sister?).
    Yeah, Kumi has been a bitch lately, but considering how damn long their relationship is taking, I don't entirely blame her for getting a little miffed.

  7. #3047

    Default Re: Hajime no Ippo

    Here's the bear fight in question.
    https://mangasee123.com/read-online/...apter-230.html

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    Default Re: Hajime no Ippo

    Quote Originally Posted by Satsuki View Post
    It's true that Ippo desperately needs more character development. I think the last we saw of that is when he almost went ballistic on Aoki's brother (name?) and slapped him into infinity. Takamura told him he needed to cross the line to make it in the world, and we've seen it. Now we just need to get Ippo back into the damn ring.

    Then again I liked how realistically they dealt with his brain damage. Something like that is not to be taken lightly, so I actually approved when Ippo made the big decision to retire. It's just that this is a boxing manga so Ippo needs to keep boxing to be the main character.
    The braın damage thıng was handled well but I would have actually preferred for this actually mean a true retirement at the end of the manga respectively they just should have ended the story. Some great series like Slamdunk for instance just don't get a happy end it still they end up being utterly amazing. With everything that's going on now however the take on braindamage is long gone and heck, even ridiculed to some point as being a mistake to begin with like when Miyata asked who determined that Ippo was punch drunk. I'm basically trying to say that the thing that made you think is long gone and we're just left with an incredbly streatchhed out build up which sucks because the character is unbearable outside of the box ring.

    Yeah, Kumi has been a bitch lately, but considering how damn long their relationship is taking, I don't entirely blame her for getting a little miffed.
    Then she should just say something herself if she gets a clue on how clueless Ippo is. She clearly is the type of person who actually wants to be courted by the male which in itself is not bad. But if the guy she has hots for just is incredibly dense on that matter either give it up and be proactive yourself or realize that you placed your bet on the wrong horse. But she should definitely stop being a selfish bitch about it. Ippo's life is Ippo's life. I can understand that she doesn't want Ippo to get hurt anymore in the box ring. But still that's not for her to decide and she seems very selfish on that front.

    Quote Originally Posted by MDL View Post
    Thank you very much for digging that out. This is somehow better and worse than I remember it. It's definitely better that I remembered it wrong and he as wolfwood said hasn't killed the bear with his punch. But the worse thing is not that it was just one punch as I remember, he pretty much had a box match with the bear. Sorry but that's just too goofy and definitely takes out the reality for me which everyone else says has been tainted only by Wolly. After re-reading this I still think that if this is ok Wolly is ok too.



  9. #3049
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    I dont mind Kumi's annoyance or desire for Ippo to make a move. Like I dont consider her a bitch to her brother. And I dont think she's much of a bitch to Ippo. She should move and try to get what she wants. I just wish Ippo would get a clue and have a real talk with her or take strong position. There's a potential for good relationship drama where 2 people learn to talk and be more receptive to each other's feeling but Ippo is such a doormat and a moron its just annoying.

    And I do wish they would have just tuck to Ippo is retired and stop constantly mentioning how maybe he's not so done after all. Maybe have end the manga on a Rocky 3 moment with Miyata and Ippo having their last match not on the formal ring but back where it all started at the gym.



  10. #3050

    Default Re: Hajime no Ippo

    Quote Originally Posted by desa View Post
    And I do wish they would have just tuck to Ippo is retired and stop constantly mentioning how maybe he's not so done after all. Maybe have end the manga on a Rocky 3 moment with Miyata and Ippo having their last match not on the formal ring but back where it all started at the gym.
    Completely agree, lately I kinda wish they would do that. The manga is named after Ippo, yet we follow so many other characters who are going on with their boxing career that it's frustrating to have him stuck in mid-waters. End the damn manga and start a new series about Ippo's life as a coach if it's what interests the author, or get him back on the freaking ring, but don't let us hang like this. I probably wouldn't mind at all if it was Takamura who had had to retire due to brain damage (although whether he has a brain to damage in the first place is a question unanswered :p), but when the supposedly main character of the series goes into limbo like that I can't stand it.
    In fact, since people were discussing the Woli fight I went back and read it (hadn't so far). If there is one positive thing to say about it, it's that at least Ippo was displaying confidence while on the ring. Ever since retirement, he has felt liek a completely bland character except maybe that one time he nearly lost his cool that Satsuki mentioned. I'm getting increasingly annoyed with his moronic self always excusing himself for something, his being a klutz, his overboard worrying (god, the Takamura pre-fight chapters...). Give me back the fierce Ippo we see on the ring !

  11. #3051

    Default Re: Hajime no Ippo

    Quote Originally Posted by desa View Post
    I dont mind Kumi's annoyance or desire for Ippo to make a move. Like I dont consider her a bitch to her brother. And I dont think she's much of a bitch to Ippo. She should move and try to get what she wants. I just wish Ippo would get a clue and have a real talk with her or take strong position. There's a potential for good relationship drama where 2 people learn to talk and be more receptive to each other's feeling but Ippo is such a doormat and a moron its just annoying.

    And I do wish they would have just tuck to Ippo is retired and stop constantly mentioning how maybe he's not so done after all. Maybe have end the manga on a Rocky 3 moment with Miyata and Ippo having their last match not on the formal ring but back where it all started at the gym.
    Except the problem with this is that Rocky & Creed had two professional fights whereas Ippo and Miyata never did and Morikawa always hyped Ippo & Miyata getting to fight each other legitimately only to repeatedly come up with ways to drag it out and then massively fucked up with Ippo doing back to back jobs leading to his retirement.

    In other words that ending would be a lazy as hell cop-out. And we’ve had enough of those with this series.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiq View Post
    I've often wondered about that myself; seems like being supported by people who only want you there so the world can end in fire (with you going to Hell in the process) would be somewhat off-putting
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  12. #3052
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    Quote Originally Posted by desa View Post
    I dont mind Kumi's annoyance or desire for Ippo to make a move. Like I dont consider her a bitch to her brother. And I dont think she's much of a bitch to Ippo. She should move and try to get what she wants. I just wish Ippo would get a clue and have a real talk with her or take strong position. There's a potential for good relationship drama where 2 people learn to talk and be more receptive to each other's feeling but Ippo is such a doormat and a moron its just annoying.
    She's not being a bitch to Ippo or her brother, she's being bitchy to the other people around her as she vents. Her ultimate "bitch" moment though was probably when she was trying to keep Ippo from ever thinking about being involved with boxing again. That's just low, Kumi.

    It's hard being in a relationship with someone who's in a dangerous profession, but when that profession is such a core part of their life, you either learn to deal with it or break up.

  13. #3053

    Default Re: Hajime no Ippo

    Pretty funny though considering she was told about the circumstances of how Ippo’s dad died but Boxing is the more dangerous job to her.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiq View Post
    I've often wondered about that myself; seems like being supported by people who only want you there so the world can end in fire (with you going to Hell in the process) would be somewhat off-putting
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  14. #3054
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satsuki View Post
    It's hard being in a relationship with someone who's in a dangerous profession, but when that profession is such a core part of their life, you either learn to deal with it or break up.
    I'd agree if Ippo wasnt the one that left the profession out of his own volition and trying to start something new because of the possible danger to his health. It's not like she's with Sendo and trying to force someone out of what they love. Ippo did mention wanting to move on and has been trying to do so. I was a lot more annoyed by all those people being like who cares about the possible damage and your reasoning to want to help out your family. Just come back and box already.



  15. #3055
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    Default Re: Hajime no Ippo

    Quote Originally Posted by Satsuki View Post
    She's not being a bitch to Ippo or her brother, she's being bitchy to the other people around her as she vents. Her ultimate "bitch" moment though was probably when she was trying to keep Ippo from ever thinking about being involved with boxing again. That's just low, Kumi.

    It's hard being in a relationship with someone who's in a dangerous profession, but when that profession is such a core part of their life, you either learn to deal with it or break up.
    Perfectly said. Not a bitch to the people she cares about but to others and also very selfish to a point where she can be utterly unlikable. And also right you are on break up or deal with it. This is definitely 100% the writers fault as this is not one of the situations where writing a character in a way that they develope a life of their own. It's clearly Morikawa padding her to stretch this out as long as possible for the target audience that's on the edge of their seat asking themselves "are they gonna finally get together?" Just overall terrilbe writing on that front.

    Quote Originally Posted by desa View Post
    I'd agree if Ippo wasnt the one that left the profession out of his own volition and trying to start something new because of the possible danger to his health. It's not like she's with Sendo and trying to force someone out of what they love. Ippo did mention wanting to move on and has been trying to do so. I was a lot more annoyed by all those people being like who cares about the possible damage and your reasoning to want to help out your family. Just come back and box already.
    The thing is though that even though Ippo has left out his own volition it has been more than hinted several times that he's missing it as more and more people are connecting the dots. Heck, even Kumi seems to be getting that vibe albeit only because she's paranoid. But wasn't Kimura the one who pointed out that Ippo is missing boxing? I seem to remember something along those lines. It's only Ippo who is yet not comming into terms with what he really wants. The thing is, while I know it's been done to death in fiction I'm a sucker for character going through the delevopment of realizing what they really want. That's why this current slog is so terrible to watch. We are moving at a snails pace and getting disappointing fights to fill the time. I still love this manga but hot damn are we stuck at a bad part for quite some while now.



  16. #3056
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    Default Re: Hajime no Ippo

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivotas View Post
    The thing is though that even though Ippo has left out his own volition it has been more than hinted several times that he's missing it as more and more people are connecting the dots. Heck, even Kumi seems to be getting that vibe albeit only because she's paranoid. But wasn't Kimura the one who pointed out that Ippo is missing boxing? I seem to remember something along those lines. It's only Ippo who is yet not comming into terms with what he really wants. The thing is, while I know it's been done to death in fiction I'm a sucker for character going through the delevopment of realizing what they really want. That's why this current slog is so terrible to watch. We are moving at a snails pace and getting disappointing fights to fill the time. I still love this manga but hot damn are we stuck at a bad part for quite some while now.
    Ippo knows he still likes boxing and wouldnt mind sparring but he left because he didnt want to risk brain damage and help his mom. Same way Date left because he got as far as he could or Take left cause his son got sick. I dont like when a character makes a choice and people spend their time undermining it because they know better. And everytime someone is like "I know Ippo decided to not box anymore after being given proper information but what if he didnt tho" it annoys me. Let him get back to it by himself and support him in the actual choice he made.

    The one time Kumi did annoy me was when he wanted to go see Sendo box and she was being a pain in his ass.



  17. #3057
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    Quote Originally Posted by Green_vs_Red View Post
    Pretty funny though considering she was told about the circumstances of how Ippo’s dad died but Boxing is the more dangerous job to her.
    Yeah, it's not like they're deep sea fishermen, but any job in the ocean has more risks than being an office worker. Which Kumi would probably love the best for Ippo to do.

  18. #3058

    Default Re: Hajime no Ippo

    Quote Originally Posted by Satsuki View Post
    Yeah, it's not like they're deep sea fishermen, but any job in the ocean has more risks than being an office worker. Which Kumi would probably love the best for Ippo to do.
    Well being office worker in Japan is also a pretty dangerous job with the issue of overwork.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiq View Post
    I've often wondered about that myself; seems like being supported by people who only want you there so the world can end in fire (with you going to Hell in the process) would be somewhat off-putting
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  19. #3059
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    Default Re: Hajime no Ippo

    Quote Originally Posted by desa View Post
    Ippo knows he still likes boxing and wouldnt mind sparring but he left because he didnt want to risk brain damage and help his mom. Same way Date left because he got as far as he could or Take left cause his son got sick. I dont like when a character makes a choice and people spend their time undermining it because they know better. And everytime someone is like "I know Ippo decided to not box anymore after being given proper information but what if he didnt tho" it annoys me. Let him get back to it by himself and support him in the actual choice he made.

    The one time Kumi did annoy me was when he wanted to go see Sendo box and she was being a pain in his ass.
    I know what mean and usually I would agree. But the problem with Ippo is that the others do know better because he's just so terribly written in terms of getting a clue about anything really. I admit that Miyata and Sendo wanting him back to fight him is just as selfish as that blank piece of wood wanting her to see him stay retired so she can hog Ippo all for himself. But if it's guys like Kitamura, who say this when Ippo's not listening in order to not give him thoughs that might cause a conflict between retirement and return then I find it quite ok actually. And it would also be if someone like that would have a series talk with Ippo and tell him to come to terms with what he really wants.

    Quote Originally Posted by Satsuki View Post
    Yeah, it's not like they're deep sea fishermen, but any job in the ocean has more risks than being an office worker. Which Kumi would probably love the best for Ippo to do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Green_vs_Red View Post
    Well being office worker in Japan is also a pretty dangerous job with the issue of overwork.
    As someone who lives in Japan I cannot emphasize enough how right Green vs Red is here.



  20. #3060
    The English Avenger Satsuki's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hajime no Ippo

    I guess you could say anything short of being a Buddhist monk is dangerous work in Japan.

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