View Poll Results: Is Yamato joining the crew?

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Thread: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World)

  1. #61

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World)

    Quote Originally Posted by Roosta View Post
    So is Robin's role intel gatherer or Poneglyph reader?
    Well, archeologist can basically fall into both, no? lol

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Devil Child 78 View Post
    6. She read Oden’s journal. She knows too much especially about One Piece
    Seeing as how she has talked about the Dawn of the World and Momo being a relevant figure to it, I suspect that in any case a main goal she'll have will have something to do with the Dawn going forward. Really though, it ultimately might not be too different from Robin since she also knows important info and will be a big reason why Luffy and the others will discover more important info at Laugh Tale. With the Dawn of the World concept itself having been mentioned in the last 6 years and Momo being relevant to it, I suppose it would be about time that the Straw Hats have a reason to focus in on it more, whatever it may be.

  2. #62
    Omne ignotum pro magnifico Zik's Avatar
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    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World)

    Quote Originally Posted by BobLoblaw View Post
    Well, let's just say this. No one has ever joined the crew and were clearly stronger than both Zoro and Sanji. That dynamic hasn't changed in all this time. On FI, Jinbe fought on par with Sanji. On Onigashima, Jinbe fought a Flying Six member and Sanji is fighting a commander, which shows yet again that Zoro and Sanji are stronger than the newest member. Yamato would clearly break that dynamic. You say that Oda doesn't care, but he's certainly not shown it with the crew up to this point. It's always been Luffy, Zoro, Sanji, everyone else
    This statement and then you're reasoning for why you think it's true just seems like more power scaling nonsense.

    Since when are character's strength let alone them at their strongest gauged by fighting weaker opponents? What exactly is fighting on par with each other? Yamato stalled Kaido for some chapters. Sanji and Zoro are going to defeat Kaido's #1 and #2 top officers. The reasoning to downplay Jimbe just reads as nonsensical especially when we know who he has fought in the past.
    Quote Originally Posted by BobLoblaw View Post
    And I made no mention of bounties because the only thing worth less than "powerscalers" are those that think bounties actually mean much. Ask Jack or Kid or anyone else with inflated bounties.
    Bounties aren't inflated and they aren't power levels. They're the measure of a characters threat level. That includes things like their strength, criminal acts, etc.

    It's fans fault and especially the power scalers that treat it as anything else.
    Last edited by Zik; October 18th, 2021 at 01:11 PM.
    Zik Of The 7 Swords: Vision? What do you know about my vision? My vision would turn your world upside down, tear asunder your illusions, and send the sanctuary of your own ignorance crashing down around you. Now ask yourself, Are you ready to see that vision?
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  3. #63

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World)

    Quote Originally Posted by DarthAsthma View Post
    How are you not sure about how Oda would flip perception he literally did it for Robin and Jinbe and shut the powerscalers up. Even beyond that as mentioned it literally is worthless and does not matter. Did Apoo KOing luffy flip perception to anyone with a brain? Literally the only people that went Apoo = Kaido tier after that are the some of the worst part of the community with the biggest brain rot.
    I don't care too much about the strength argument either, but it's easy to see why Yamato looks like he'll be a top SH.

    In regards to Robin and Jimbe, there was a lot room for growth to surpass them in the future regardless of their rank at the time of joining (were they stronger than Sanji and Zoro at the time though? not necessarily) because they were never among the highest tier of power level. Jimbe was a Shichibukai, which is obviously impressive, but at the time of his recruitment we were already comfortable with the idea that Yonkou, Admirals and even Commander are stronger than the average Shichibukai.

    On the other hand, Yamato was giving a good fight to Kaido, who's said to be the strongest in the world -- and if he's not, it should be close anyway. There may be some room for ambiguity in regards to Yamato's exact power level because we can't measure it scientifically, but it was really impressive. Arguably, Yamato is at the level of an Admiral, which is more or less what some of us expect to be the level of Sanji and Zoro by the end of the series, so there's not much room for them to surpass Yamato in the long run because he's already around their ceiling, unless things start to escalate like Dragon Ball in the final saga, or unless Oda suddenly pretends that Yamato is not as strong as it looked before.

    Yamato is very much like Oden in this sense.
    Last edited by theackwardstation; October 18th, 2021 at 01:33 PM.

  4. #64
    The Mad Moiselle BellisarioFaith's Avatar
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    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World)

    Well. A new thread, huh. Only took 15 months to fill up the previous one. Let's see how things have changed from then (in which I voted "Other" in the poll):
    Quote Originally Posted by BellisarioFaith
    Well, my "other" is partially "none of the above", in that, while I do think we're gonna get one more (hence not voting for "Jimbei's the last one"), I'm seriously doubtful that it'll be any of the available choices on the poll based on everything we've seen so far. None of them feel right, certainly not the way Jimbei did. I could be quite wrong about that, and I'm sure part of that is my own bias because, by the time I started reading the series, Fishman Island was already complete and Jimbei had promised to join eventually, so him being official at some point has been a given to me for the whole time I've been reading weekly. But that doesn't change the fact that none of them have made the same impression and given the same vibes he did.

    The one possible exception there is Yamato, whom we've just met and hasn't had the chance to leave much of any impression at all, but I'm not bandwagoning on him at this point. I suppose I could have waited a few months before casting my vote to see if he becomes more convincing and appealing as a possible Straw Hat, or if the hype for him dies out completely. Maybe after he's been around longer, I'll end up wishing I'd voted for him and feel much more optimistic about his chances. B
    ut eh. I'm friggen lazy and wanted to get my vote-explaining post out of the way before things start devolving in here, and Yamato, though he leaves me with a stronger first impression than several of the other options, seems perfectly viable as just an arc ally as well. I would rather just place my bets now and admit I was wrong later.

    For whom I think it will be? No idea. Could even be a new character. Whom I'd like it to be? Vivi, who has far better chemistry with the Straw Hats--and I mean all of them (minus the three she never got the chance to meet), not just one or two--than any of the other choices. Hell, just the possible interactions between Vivi and Robin (whom she knew as an enemy) alone sound more interesting than everything we've gotten from some of these other choices combined. And for those who believe "Vivi already is a Straw Hat", yes, I believe that too, and still do consider her to be at least an honorary Straw Hat member regardless. But I'd literally prefer her coming back and sailing on the Sunny with them as a full-time member than any of the other choices joining. If one of them does, I won't love it, but it'll be whatever. If Vivi comes back, I will love it
    .
    Well, my stance that we'll get one more crewmember, no more or less, remains the same.

    At this point, Yamato definitely feels like the most likely option, by far. None of the other so-called major candidates for consideration seem to come anywhere close to him:
    • It never felt to me like Carrot was being built up to join even at her most prominent in WCI, and her complete lack of presence and any amount of individual importance in Wano has only sealed the deal. (I'm not really into the whole "but she could get 'her moment' later down the line, let's wait and see!" train of thought. I prefer to make judgements based on what we've already seen and what's already happened, not based on what could happen--let's be real, a LOT could happen in this series--and then if something changes, adjust accordingly.)
    • Thanks to Tama's young age and complete lack of ability to defend herself, in addition to her power seeming like a poor fit for the SHs, I'm very doubtful about her as well. Yes, we do know now that Shinobu can age people up, but why Tama? I didn't like it being done to Momonosuke either, but at the very least, there was the justification that doing so put him at his correct "chronological" age (how old he would be if he hadn't time-jumped). Tama doesn't even have that reasoning. There's also the fact that, while it's a reasonable enough guess, it's never actually been established that she wants to leave Wano with Luffy (unlike with Yamato).
    • None of the other retainers feel right when they're so devoted to Momo and Wano, and likewise for Momo himself, also wholly devoted to Wano.
    • And Vivi, whom I mentioned above? Not much has changed there for me, haha. I still like her better than any of the other choices, and I still acknowledge that she's probably not an option, as much as I would like it. I'm only bringing her up because I did so last time.
    As for Yamato himself, I'm definitely more receptive to him as a choice now than I was then, it's true, since we've seen far more of him. I like his design, he and Luffy seem to get along great, and Yamato has explicitly said he wants to leave Wano and go with Luffy. That being said, in terms of wanting him to join, I'm still not fully won over yet, so I'm waiting to vote in the poll. It'll be disappointing if he does so without changing his weird Oden fixation at all. I will fully admit that there's some bias here because I didn't like Oden, but I really want to see Yamato realize that you can look up to someone and want to live up to their legacy and admirable qualities--even if I personally believe he's admiring the wrong guy, haha--without literally declaring yourself to be that person and trying too hard to emulate them. If he can do that and decide to be himself, whoever that may end up being, while still looking up to Oden in a better way, then I'll be more on board with him as a potential crewmate--and for the record, I think the chances of that are pretty high considering his Oden emulation is primarily played for comedy. I'd just really rather not have him continue that on the Sunny as his major personality quirk; I don't really want to have to bring all the Oden wanking with us after this arc is over, haha. I'll be a lot more lukewarm about him as a member if that's the case.

    That being said, though, I gotta say: whether he joins the crew or not, I definitely expect him to leave Wano in some way after this is all over. He has made it explicitly, abundantly clear that he wants to help free Wano from his shitty dad and then get outta dodge and go out to sea after being trapped on Wano/Onigashima his whole damned life. I just do not see the "he's gonna stay as a retainer" or "he's gonna be the guardian deity of Wano" arguments, at all. As other folks here have already pointed out, the only character in-universe who has been shown to want that for him is...Kaido, his abusive dad who forced him to stay there in the first place. Having Yamato decide at the end "Actually, after wanting to leave my whole life, I am gonna stay in Wano to protect it after all like my dad wanted me to...but for my own reasons, so it's okay, I'm still defying his wishes!" feels really lame and like a complete cop-out. I can't really say I understand why someone would want that fate for Yamato, either, unless it's like "I hate him as a character and I want him to be stuck in a life that makes him unhappy" or something petty like that, lol. But that doesn't seem to be the reasoning for anyone who's making the argument for him to stay.
    Last edited by BellisarioFaith; October 18th, 2021 at 01:31 PM.
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  5. #65

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World)

    Quote Originally Posted by theackwardstation View Post
    I don't care too much about the strength argument either, but it's easy to see why Yamato looks like he'll be a top SH.

    In regards to Robin and Jimbe, there was a lot room for growth to surpass them in the future regardless of their rank at the time of joining (were they stronger than Sanji and Zoro at the time though? not necessarily) because they were never among the highest tier of power level. Jimbe was a Shichibukai, which is obviously impressive, but at the time of his recruitment we were already comfortable with the idea that Yonkou, Admirals and even Commander are stronger than the average Shichibukai.

    On the other hand, Yamato was giving a good fight to Kaido, who's said to be the strongest in the world -- and if he's not, it should be close anyway. There may be some room for ambiguity in regards to Yamato's exact power level because we can't measure it scientifically, but it was really impressive. Arguably, Yamato is at the level of an Admiral, which is more or less what some of us expect to be the level of Sanji and Zoro by the end of the series, so there's not much room for them to surpass Yamato in the long run because he's already around their ceiling, unless things start to escalate like Dragon Ball in the final saga, or unless Oda suddenly pretends that Yamato is not as strong as it looked before.

    Yamato is very much like Oden in this sense.
    Nah my point is you think this shit does matter and it literally does not. Yamato's showing doesn't really mean anything beyond he can stall someone he's fought for years on years.
    Is Ulti, Kaido level for stalling Luffy? Is Apoo? Cause that's the actual power space of leeway Oda has demonstrated. It's all meaningless to get into.
    All these lines of thoughts just lead you into your braincells dying because of how stupid they are, the rabbit hole of if x beat y and c beat x = c stronger than x and y is just.... *barf*

  6. #66
    Omne ignotum pro magnifico Zik's Avatar
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    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World)

    Quote Originally Posted by Roosta View Post
    I'm new to this, but I'm curious about the history. People often mention how much Oda likes to surprise us, but in the end a lot of the broad strokes are pretty obvious. Has there ever been a time where the community as a whole thought something was going to happen only for Oda to go another way? For example, did most people think Vivi would join the crew permanently, or that the Merry would be the ship for the whole story, or that Ace would survive Marineford? My experience watching and reading for the past year is that Oda likes to surprise by dropping new information on top of what he's already built, rather than taking a big expectation and going a different way.
    I never thought Vivi was going to join but apparently some did.

    We all assumed we'd get a new shipwright and the Merry would be fixed and made like brand new. Most were not expecting for Robin to leave, Usopp to fight Luffy and elave over the Merry being done for, or that the new shipwright would be the guy that beat up Usopp and stole from the crew. From beginning to end Water 7 and Enies Lobby was chock full of surprises even in to the epilogue with the Garp, Dragon, New World revelations. Some things became more apparent as they were underway but nothing was obvious beforehand.
    Zik Of The 7 Swords: Vision? What do you know about my vision? My vision would turn your world upside down, tear asunder your illusions, and send the sanctuary of your own ignorance crashing down around you. Now ask yourself, Are you ready to see that vision?
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  7. #67

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World)

    Quote Originally Posted by BellisarioFaith View Post
    That being said, though, I gotta say: whether he joins the crew or not, I definitely expect him to leave Wano in some way after this is all over. He has made it explicitly, abundantly clear that he wants to help free Wano from his shitty dad and then get outta dodge and go out to sea after being trapped on Wano/Onigashima his whole damned life. I just do not see the "he's gonna stay as a retainer" or "he's gonna be the guardian deity of Wano" arguments, at all. As other folks here have already pointed out, the only character in-universe who has been shown to want that for him is...Kaido, his abusive dad who forced him to stay there in the first place. Having Yamato decide at the end "Actually, after wanting to leave my whole life, I am gonna stay in Wano to protect it after all like my dad wanted me to...but for my own reasons, so it's okay, I'm still defying his wishes!" feels really lame and like a complete cop-out. I can't really say I understand why someone would want that fate for Yamato, either, unless it's like "I hate him as a character and I want him to be stuck in a life that makes him unhappy" or something petty like that, lol. But that doesn't seem to be the reasoning for anyone who's making the argument for him to stay.
    What's funny is that, ironically, half of this forum condemns Oden for following Roger to Laugh Tale to make his dreams come true (when Orochi's reign was just starting and still rather soft) while, at the same time, people see it as unforgivable to have Yamato stay to protect Wano in case Wano needs it. Two weights and two measures. Of course, the comparison is not symmetrical yet since we don't have, necessarily, an imminent threat in Wano after Kaido's defeat, but this idea is not out of the cards either, in abstract or concretely, especially now that we know the WG wants to annex Wano by force. Likewise, Vivi wanted to go with the SHs ("I'd like to continue my adventures, but when it comes down to it I love this kingdom, so I can't go!") after explicitly considering that Alabasta had tough times ahead to reconstruct itself after the civil war, which was less troubled than the recent history of Wano and its next steps opening to the world.

    Btw, I'm not saying Yamato has to stay in Wano since I'm actually one of the people who's okay with Oden's choice to go to Laugh Tale at the time of his decision, so Yamato can leave Wano too and I'll be supportive. That said, it's totally inside the realm of narrative development for a character to develop his "want" as he matures his desires and rediscover his role in life. In the case of Yamato, this could be his story since his parallels and symbology with Wano/Japan are so categorical that's almost like Oda is hinting this outcome as much as Yamato joining the SH crew.

    All that said, the fact that Yamato has been saying again and again that he'll leave with Luffy matters a lot. Not because it's mandatory that it happens just because it was said, but more because it would feel like Oda was trolling his readers if Yamato stayed behind after so much bait. Imagine the salt. It's almost untasteful to be so evil. At the same time, I have to say that Yamato is always repeating that he'll leave with the SHs without being invited or accepted, which is kinda forceful even if it becomes true, honestly. I also feel like Yamato's reasons to join specifically the SHs are rather artificial, since Yamato has chosen Luffy for being the "chosen one" and all the lore purposes, instead of their bonds have been developed in a more organic manner.

  8. #68

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World)

    Quote Originally Posted by Zik View Post
    This statement and then you're reasoning for why you think it's true just seems like more power scaling nonsense.

    Since when are character's strength let alone them at their strongest gauged by fighting weaker opponents? What exactly is fighting on par with each other? Yamato stalled Kaido for some chapters. Sanji and Zoro are going to defeat Kaido's #1 and #2 top officers. The reasoning to downplay Jimbe just reads as nonsensical especially when we know who he has fought in the past.
    The point is the "monster three" or "monster trio" or whatever they're called have always been considered the three strongest in the crew. My point is that hasn't ever changed, even with Jinbe joining now. Yamato would disrupt that longstanding dynamic, so you have one of two scenarios. Either that tradition gets broken to accommodate Yamato or it doesn't.

    Bounties aren't inflated and they aren't power levels. They're the measure of a characters threat level. That includes things like their strength, criminal acts, etc.

    It's fans fault and especially the power scalers that treat it as anything else.
    I'm aware of what bounties represent. They're irrelevant when it comes to assessing a person's actual combat abilities in a given scenario, which was my main point. I'll take longstanding traditions (monster three) over bounties any day of the week. See Jinbe.

  9. #69

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World)

    I think the worry about Yamato’s „being Oden“ schtick is somewhat overblown. Yes, there were two gags in close proximity about Luffy taking him on his ship because Roger took Oden and Momo being his son. Yes, if Yamato joins the „I am Oden“ stuff could be extremely annoying 60 chapters from that point on.

    But he mostly uses it as a metaphor for being free and opening up Wano. He barely shows any Oden mannerisms. In 20 years, he couldn’t even be arsed to pick up two swords and adopt the sword style Oden named after himself - that should be a no-brainer for someone who LITERALLY wants to be Oden (and a samurai). Instead, he wields his abusive father’s weapon and somewhat adopted his fighting style.

  10. #70

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World)

    Quote Originally Posted by theackwardstation View Post
    What's funny is that, ironically, half of this forum condemns Oden for following Roger to Laugh Tale to make his dreams come true (when Orochi's reign was just starting and still rather soft) while, at the same time, people see it as unforgivable to have Yamato stay to protect Wano in case Wano needs it. Two weights and two measures. Of course, the comparison is not symmetrical yet since we don't have, necessarily, an imminent threat in Wano after Kaido's defeat, but this idea is not out of the cards either, in abstract or concretely, especially now that we know the WG wants to annex Wano by force. Likewise, Vivi wanted to go with the SHs ("I'd like to continue my adventures, but when it comes down to it I love this kingdom, so I can't go!") after explicitly considering that Alabasta had tough times ahead to reconstruct itself after the civil war, which was less troubled than the recent history of Wano and its next steps opening to the world.

    Btw, I'm not saying Yamato has to stay in Wano since I'm actually one of the people who's okay with Oden's choice to go to Laugh Tale at the time of his decision, so Yamato can leave Wano too and I'll be supportive. That said, it's totally inside the realm of narrative development for a character to develop his "want" as he matures his desires and rediscover his role in life. In the case of Yamato, this could be his story since his parallels and symbology with Wano/Japan are so categorical that's almost like Oda is hinting this outcome as much as Yamato joining the SH crew.

    All that said, the fact that Yamato has been saying again and again that he'll leave with Luffy matters a lot. Not because it's mandatory that it happens just because it was said, but more because it would feel like Oda was trolling his readers if Yamato stayed behind after so much bait. Imagine the salt. It's almost untasteful to be so evil. At the same time, I have to say that Yamato is always repeating that he'll leave with the SHs without being invited or accepted, which is kinda forceful even if it becomes true, honestly. I also feel like Yamato's reasons to join specifically the SHs are rather artificial, since Yamato has chosen Luffy for being the "chosen one" and all the lore purposes, instead of their bonds have been developed in a more organic manner.
    Yeah, even before Alabasta, Vivi expressed it clear that she really cared for her country and never got to the point that she'd leave it all behind in favor of the Straw Hats even though she's friends with them, in addition to Cobra getting older and possible sicker while she's growing up to potentially be ruler of them one day.

  11. #71
    The Mad Moiselle BellisarioFaith's Avatar
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    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World)

    Quote Originally Posted by theackwardstation View Post
    What's funny is that, ironically, half of this forum condemns Oden for following Roger to Laugh Tale to make his dreams come true (when Orochi's reign was just starting and still rather soft) while, at the same time, people see it as unforgivable to have Yamato stay to protect Wano in case Wano needs it. Two weights and two measures. Of course, the comparison is not symmetrical yet since we don't have, necessarily, an imminent threat in Wano after Kaido's defeat, but this idea is not out of the cards either, in abstract or concretely, especially now that we know the WG wants to annex Wano by force.
    Ehhh, there's another major reason the comparison isn't symmetrical besides what you mentioned: Oden was the legal heir to the shogunate of Wano, its future leader, and was also the current daimyo of one region of it at the time he left.

    Personally, the whole "Oden abandoned Wano" thing isn't as high on my list of reasons to dislike him as other factors are, and I took more issue with it the second time when he dropped Toki and the kids and Dog and Cat off and was like "I could clearly tell this place was getting screwed up, but, ah well, toodles". I did at least get the conflicting loyalties between the choices of helping Wano with its issues or going with Roger, so again, this isn't the biggest problem I have when citing why I don't like Oden, but I do totally get the complaint, and I'm can't say I had no problem with it, either. I can sympathize with wanting to have freedom and not being bound by your duties, but when you have that comparison with Vivi like you brought up, where she cared about her country and her people and practically everything she did that whole time we knew her was for the purpose of helping them, it's hard to say Oden doesn't come out of it looking worse than she did.

    Because, again, Oden was already a regional ruler and the rightful heir apparent to lead the entire country. Yamato is neither of those things. His dad is a usurper of a usurper who wants to put him on the throne, and Yamato, along with everyone else in the alliance, wants to put the rightful leader, the Kozuki family (via Momo), back on the throne. The only duty to Wano that Yamato has is feeling like he needs to free it from the crappy situation his own father put it in to begin with. Once he's done that via the Alliance defeating Kaido, Yamato doesn't owe Wano anything, and there's no reason that he (or the readers) should have to feel like he's obligated to stay.
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  12. #72

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World)

    Quote Originally Posted by electricmastro View Post
    Yeah, even before Alabasta, Vivi expressed it clear that she really cared for her country and never got to the point that she'd leave it all behind in favor of the Straw Hats even though she's friends with them, in addition to Cobra getting older and possible sicker while she's growing up to potentially be ruler of them one day.
    It's perfectly understandable the route Oda chose for Vivi's character because she was introduced as the princess wanting to save her country, so her character was tied to that plot of Alabasta. However, Vivi was also written as someone who was struggling with that final decision because, if it were up to her most selfish desires, she'd rather be with her friends and have new adventures. But she chose responsability over everything else, so this is a thing in One Piece too. As things stand, the same principle can fit Yamato too, not unlike situations we saw before in the series, even if it's also perfectly fine if Yamato joins.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by BellisarioFaith View Post
    Ehhh, there's another major reason the comparison isn't symmetrical besides what you mentioned: Oden was the legal heir to the shogunate of Wano, its future leader, and was also the current daimyo of one region of it at the time he left.

    Personally, the whole "Oden abandoned Wano" thing isn't as high on my list of reasons to dislike him as other factors are, and I took more issue with it the second time when he dropped Toki and the kids and Dog and Cat off and was like "I could clearly tell this place was getting screwed up, but, ah well, toodles". I did at least get the conflicting loyalties between the choices of helping Wano with its issues or going with Roger, so again, this isn't the biggest problem I have when citing why I don't like Oden, but I do totally get the complaint, and I'm can't say I had no problem with it, either. I can sympathize with wanting to have freedom and not being bound by your duties, but when you have that comparison with Vivi like you brought up, where she cared about her country and her people and practically everything she did that whole time we knew her was for the purpose of helping them, it's hard to say Oden doesn't come out of it looking worse than she did.

    Because, again, Oden was already a regional ruler and the rightful heir apparent to lead the entire country. Yamato is neither of those things. His dad is a usurper of a usurper who wants to put him on the throne, and Yamato, along with everyone else in the alliance, wants to put the rightful leader, the Kozuki family (via Momo), back on the throne. The only duty to Wano that Yamato has is feeling like he needs to free it from the crappy situation his own father put it in to begin with. Once he's done that via the Alliance defeating Kaido, Yamato doesn't owe Wano anything, and there's no reason that he (or the readers) should have to feel like he's obligated to stay.
    I was referring specifically to the second time Oden left Wano, since that was the point when he went to Laugh Tale and Orochi was already in power.

    Your counterargument about Oden being the son of the shogun (while Yamato is not) is valid and shows another assymetry, but do you really feel like this? Because, honestly, I don't. The idea that some people are born with a burden because of their lineage while others are freer is not something that I think is fair, or at least not unfixable. Regarding Oden in particular, he never accepted his role as royalty and he was always very vocal about renouning this responsability, which is only forced on him due to his blood. Oden was happy to be disowned. He then became Daimyo after that (a title given to him, not asked by him), but that was a position he resigned the moment he became a pirate in the first place, since he never gave up on his dream to leave Wano. That was his choice. So it's not like Oden was a President who was abandoning his duty, but instead a citzen who everybody wants to be the President and forces it upon him to act like one while it's definitely not his wish. In other words, Oden was different from Vivi, who was always much more invested in her role as Princess, thus owning the responsability by free will.

    That's not to say that it wasn't selfish for Oden to have chosen his dreams over Wano when he left both times. However, if we go by the moral premise that a person has the duty to protect a country over anything personal, this morality can also be imposed on Yamato, especially if you agree with me that Oden was not different from any other regular person considering he never accepted his role as Shogun. And if we go by some sort of "lineage responsability", then what about the concept that Yamato has to make up for the destruction his father brought to the country? Imagine Yamato seeing that Wano became a big wasteland compared to the last time he set foot on the mainland.

  13. #73
    Discovered Stowaway astagadragon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World)

    Re: Yamato too stronk

    Yes, but going forward the crew will challenge the World Government, Marines, 2 Yonkos, Im and maybe the Revolutionary Army. They will need all firepower they can get, as you can see that Luffy, Zoro, Sanji and Nami getting their upgrades this arc.

    Oh and remember, we don't see Jinbe at his peak yet. A life and death battle involving a Shichibukai, I'd imagine Jinbe will go as hard as climax Doflamingo. Hell I'd argue that in normal encounter, Jinbe is still stronger than Yamato. Dunk her on water and Jinbe wins automatically.

    Monster trio? More like, make it monster quintet! Expanding the main character's crew with blatantly overpowered ally is normal in any shonen or game out there.
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  14. #74

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World)

    Well, I'm not going to vote because it's a binary. I believe Carrot is going to join, but that does not exclude Yamato's chances. I'm still not 100% sold on Yamato, but I think there's a strong possibility. But there's a good chance something else happens with Yamato.
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  15. #75
    Omne ignotum pro magnifico Zik's Avatar
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    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World)

    Quote Originally Posted by K. Kira XXIII View Post
    How do you reconcile the fact that the fleet are literally followers of Usopp and one of Usopp biggest lies is that he has 8000 followers. The current fleet has 5600.

    Do you not believe in Usopp's lies?
    Usopp could easily get 8000 separate followers.

    Do you expect him to only get 2400 more?

    Hmm could be, although with the mention Kaido did of everyone that gets close to Yamato dies. I would expect something as important as a sibling to be mentioned. At least more than the random soldier that gave them food.
    Well Kaido didn't say anything like a detailed list. He mentioned some samurai. Oda just highlighted Ace and in a small panel that one Beast pirate (I assume) that fed Yamato.
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  16. #76

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World)

    Quote Originally Posted by Zik View Post
    Usopp could easily get 8000 separate followers.
    Find it hard to believe. They literally started calling him God Usopp and saying things like: I will follow you until the end of days. They are literally followers, of Usopp and Luffy. That's why the lie fits so well. Because they didn't exchange sake cups like they usually do, it is the fleet captains drinking the sake: doing what they want -> follow Luffy/Usopp.

    Do you expect him to only get 2400 more?
    Yes. And what do you mean "only", 8000 troops is quite big of a number.

    Well Kaido didn't say anything like a detailed list. He mentioned some samurai. Oda just highlighted Ace and in a small panel that one Beast pirate (I assume) that fed Yamato.
    I am saying that instance was a perfect chance to introduce such a character. I took that scene as Oda showing all the people that helped Yamato. Samurai, Ace and that Beast pirate.
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  17. #77

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World)

    I’d love an Avengers Endgame moment where it looks like the heroes are doomed and then we get the Grand Fleet comes to back them up at the last second

  18. #78

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World)

    Quote Originally Posted by Vongola_Boss_XI View Post
    Well, I'm not going to vote because it's a binary. I believe Carrot is going to join, but that does not exclude Yamato's chances. I'm still not 100% sold on Yamato, but I think there's a strong possibility. But there's a good chance something else happens with Yamato.
    No hedging. Pick a side and suffer the consequences like the rest of us.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shiebs View Post
    I’d love an Avengers Endgame moment where it looks like the heroes are doomed and then we get the Grand Fleet comes to back them up at the last second
    Bart's fruit is made for that.

  19. #79
    Omne ignotum pro magnifico Zik's Avatar
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    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World)

    Quote Originally Posted by theackwardstation View Post
    What's funny is that, ironically, half of this forum condemns Oden for following Roger to Laugh Tale to make his dreams come true (when Orochi's reign was just starting and still rather soft) while, at the same time, people see it as unforgivable to have Yamato stay to protect Wano in case Wano needs it. Two weights and two measures. Of course, the comparison is not symmetrical yet since we don't have, necessarily, an imminent threat in Wano after Kaido's defeat, but this idea is not out of the cards either, in abstract or concretely, especially now that we know the WG wants to annex Wano by force. Likewise, Vivi wanted to go with the SHs ("I'd like to continue my adventures, but when it comes down to it I love this kingdom, so I can't go!") after explicitly considering that Alabasta had tough times ahead to reconstruct itself after the civil war, which was less troubled than the recent history of Wano and its next steps opening to the world.

    Btw, I'm not saying Yamato has to stay in Wano since I'm actually one of the people who's okay with Oden's choice to go to Laugh Tale at the time of his decision, so Yamato can leave Wano too and I'll be supportive. That said, it's totally inside the realm of narrative development for a character to develop his "want" as he matures his desires and rediscover his role in life. In the case of Yamato, this could be his story since his parallels and symbology with Wano/Japan are so categorical that's almost like Oda is hinting this outcome as much as Yamato joining the SH crew.

    All that said, the fact that Yamato has been saying again and again that he'll leave with Luffy matters a lot. Not because it's mandatory that it happens just because it was said, but more because it would feel like Oda was trolling his readers if Yamato stayed behind after so much bait. Imagine the salt. It's almost untasteful to be so evil. At the same time, I have to say that Yamato is always repeating that he'll leave with the SHs without being invited or accepted, which is kinda forceful even if it becomes true, honestly. I also feel like Yamato's reasons to join specifically the SHs are rather artificial, since Yamato has chosen Luffy for being the "chosen one" and all the lore purposes, instead of their bonds have been developed in a more organic manner.
    The reason why this comparison isn't the same and pretty much bullshit is cuz Yamato has absolutely no obligation to Wano at all.

    Yamato wanting to be Oden, wanting to what he did and couldn't, opening Wano's borders, getting rid of Kaido, etc. has all been an active choice. The reason Oden is looked at differently is cuz he skirted his duties eben after knowing some problems were brewing. He still chose to do something he felt was more important.

    The Vivi example doesn't even track. Sure she wanted to join the crew but she loved her country and the ppl more. She made that abundantly clear more than once.

    The thing with Yamato staying is a lot of you are advocating for something Oda has never done. He's never had a character express their dreams to be one thing repeatedly just for them not to achieve it (not talking about villains and Not talking about children in flashbacks).

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by BobLoblaw View Post
    The point is the "monster three" or "monster trio" or whatever they're called have always been considered the three strongest in the crew.
    If you take that as an absolute rule then it'll remain that. Even after Yamato joins no matter your view on the power scaling of the strawhats.

    My point is that hasn't ever changed, even with Jinbe joining now. Yamato would disrupt that longstanding dynamic, so you have one of two scenarios. Either that tradition gets broken to accommodate Yamato or it doesn't.
    This is a totally ridiculous power scaling fan made created problem lol.

    The answer is the precious tradition won't be broken.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by NightGrinder View Post
    I think the worry about Yamato’s „being Oden“ schtick is somewhat overblown. Yes, there were two gags in close proximity about Luffy taking him on his ship because Roger took Oden and Momo being his son. Yes, if Yamato joins the „I am Oden“ stuff could be extremely annoying 60 chapters from that point on.

    But he mostly uses it as a metaphor for being free and opening up Wano. He barely shows any Oden mannerisms. In 20 years, he couldn’t even be arsed to pick up two swords and adopt the sword style Oden named after himself - that should be a no-brainer for someone who LITERALLY wants to be Oden (and a samurai). Instead, he wields his abusive father’s weapon and somewhat adopted his fighting style.
    Yeah, ppl conveniently look over this constantly which is why I don't take the complaints seriously. Has more to do with their hate for Oden and annoyance with Yamato.
    Zik Of The 7 Swords: Vision? What do you know about my vision? My vision would turn your world upside down, tear asunder your illusions, and send the sanctuary of your own ignorance crashing down around you. Now ask yourself, Are you ready to see that vision?
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  20. #80

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 9 - Yamato vs. The World)

    Quote Originally Posted by Zik View Post
    The reason why this comparison isn't the same and pretty much bullshit is cuz Yamato has absolutely no obligation to Wano at all.
    I never said Yamato has an obligation. I said the opposite, actually, about Yamato and Oden. What I commented is that people have double standards when they think this not similar to Oden, who also didn't have any obligation. You, for example, are saying that Oden skirted his duties, but that's just forcing it upon him despite the fact that the dude always renounced the politics of Wano since a young age and then became a pirate. So the same moral reasoning (which is not mine) could be aplied to Yamato, unless all that you can take into consideration for people's responsability is lineage.

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