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Thread: Chapter 1,023: Spitting Image

  1. #221
    Discovered Stowaway Ivotas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 1,023: Spitting Image

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfwood View Post
    The worst part about bounties is that they go through the same inflation as powerlevels did in Dragon Ball. At first it is kinda neat, then they just explode into meaningless numbers once each new guy has to be 300.000 times the old guys number to get the gasp he's -insert villain- times 8!! reaction. TLDR i enjoyed it more when bounties were smaller
    I feel the same way. I understand why they exist but at this point the bounties just feel like meaningless noise to me for the most part. Perhaps I would think differently if lesser pushovers or people that don't have much of an impact to the plot or in fights would be getting a high bounty that shits on bounties from characters from earlier arcs who might have had a lower bounty but a bigger impact on the story.

    I mean in East Blue we had pretty much the bounties of the enemies captains only. In the first half if the Grand Line from the big guys only Crocodile and Moria had bounties, Enel and Lucci had none for obvious reasons. And all four of those crews mostly had no bounties. A big difference was then Jaya where first Roshio and then Bellamy got their bounties. They were both lower than Croc's, Zoro's or Luffy's but they still somehow felt to have a bit weight to them. Nowadays, Damalo Blacks, Caribos, Coribos, Pekoms' and whoever else (not kidding here, I realky lost track who all has a bounty after this because it just doesn't mean anythung to me anymore) get's a bounty to show how much more of big guns we are dealing with now. But the thing is that we don't really need that much bounties thrown around to get that the captains are strong.

    Also another thing that somehow rubbed me the wrong way with bounties is that for Luffy we went from 300,000,000 to 400,000,000 to 500,000,000 Belly. Just feels underwhelming when compared to the previous jumps.

    Last but not least. Screw bounties if there's no actual real bounty hunters who go after those high amounts and actually manage to claim some. If we don't get this in the series, can perhaps a movie focus on bounty hunters for a change please?[/rant]



  2. #222

    Default Re: Chapter 1,023: Spitting Image

    I still think bounties make a lot of sense, although my pet peeve is that Luffy should have jumped to way more than 500mil after defeating DoFlamingo if Oda intended to introduce an 1bi character soon after (Jack).

    The issue with bounties is indeed the lack of bounty hunters, but I believe individual Marines can claim the bounties for themselves after defeating a pirate, so the bounties are not completely useless in-universe.

    Btw, after the timeskip, I wanted one of the first arcs of the New World to be against a bounty hunter. Someone strong expecting the usual level of a super rookie to capture, but finding out that Luffy was way stronger than that after his secret training with Rayleigh.

  3. #223
    Your long-lost brother Jabra's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 1,023: Spitting Image

    I... actually think the Bounty system is still one of the most clever ideas concerning threat and powerlevels - because it's so blurry and bloated.

    It's supposed to give the readers a rough idea how threatening someone is, but the real benefit (from the point of an author) is the fact that it makes people think and argue. What might be annoying in an online forum is *exactly* what I would want to happen on every schoolyard: the kids talking and arguing about how strong character X is and how the bounty reflects it (or not!).
    The DBZ power counter is just that, a powercounter. Kayoken Goku is 4000 points stronger than Vegeta. That's it, case close, no room for buzz.

    The bounty being influenced by several factors makes it interesting, it invites discussion. A few posts above we have someone argue that Jinbe sailing directly under a Yonkou (Luffy) and not just under the protection of one (Big Mom) might give him a massive jump, even if his powerlevel stays the same.

    It's a good argument. There should be a difference between Jinbe acting as your freelance-friendly neighborhood Whaleshark and becoming the commander of one of the biggest threats of the Government.


  4. #224

    Default Re: Chapter 1,023: Spitting Image

    From the government perspective, the bounties work well on the lower values. For the stronger enemies they just put them in the system and forget about it.

  5. #225
    Your long-lost brother Jabra's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 1,023: Spitting Image

    Quote Originally Posted by theackwardstation View Post
    I still think bounties make a lot of sense, although my pet peeve is that Luffy should have jumped to way more than 500mil after defeating DoFlamingo if Oda intended to introduce an 1bi character soon after (Jack).
    But Doflamingo wasn't the top commander of a Yonkou. Jacku's threat level is much higher because he acts how Kaido wants him to, Jacku's strength is the extension of Kaido's direct influence.

    Like, let us imagine a world where Zoro is the captain of his own crew and he manages to defeat Jacku during a raid. He wouldn't be pushed beyond 1 billion, because Jacku isn't really worth that much on his own. Defeating him wouldn't catapult Zoro to that threat level, because Kaido's "bonus influence" as a Yonkou woudn't carry over.

    Now, Zoro defeating a 1 Billion guy while he sails under a Yonkou himself? In this case Luffy? Super likely. 200-300 million for defeating the guy, another flat 500 million for becoming a Yonkou top commander. Just like everyone got a flat 50 million increase after Doflamingo.


  6. #226

    Default Re: Chapter 1,023: Spitting Image

    I don't think bounties are meaningless as they get super inflated. I think it's fun and still at the very least gives opposing pirates incentive to take someone else down. They can't collect but they can take the fame.

    The yearn for high level bounty hunters or bounty hunters period is interesting but I never cared so much. Look at Black Beard, he was specifically looking to take down someone with at least a 100million berry bounty right? He was a pirate but still hunting bounties. Couldn't a Marine collect if they took someone down? How about some good natured citizen just powerful enough like Kyros who could manage to bring in a bigger bounty?

    And like Jabra said it makes for great discussion as to why someone may have the bounty that they do.
    Folks who read One Piece... Just better people. \_(ツ)_/

  7. #227

    Default Re: Chapter 1,023: Spitting Image

    Only reason for me to care about a bounty is for when characters like Teach take advantage of it or when Germa can take away the "dead" part. I look forward to the more creative ways for it to drive the story. The numbers not so much unless there's a purposeful detail behind it like Kid being higher than Luffy due to civilians getting hurt.

  8. #228

    Default Re: Chapter 1,023: Spitting Image

    Now i know this is just complaining about shonen itself, but i prefer it when progress is more bit by bit instead of outright level jumping to the next stage beyond. But i guess this goes hand in hand with me wanting more sailing from island to island meeting foes who aren't worlds apart and "exploring" each tier deeply. Like you get more pleasure from smaller episodes with for instance the BW getting their villain of the week run before the big battle instead of going from bloated everything happens in the same story part mega arcs into another bloated arc y'know. That breathing room to explore makes things feel alive for me

  9. #229

    Default Re: Chapter 1,023: Spitting Image

    Quote Originally Posted by Jabra View Post
    But Doflamingo wasn't the top commander of a Yonkou. Jacku's threat level is much higher because he acts how Kaido wants him to, Jacku's strength is the extension of Kaido's direct influence.

    Like, let us imagine a world where Zoro is the captain of his own crew and he manages to defeat Jacku during a raid. He wouldn't be pushed beyond 1 billion, because Jacku isn't really worth that much on his own. Defeating him wouldn't catapult Zoro to that threat level, because Kaido's "bonus influence" as a Yonkou woudn't carry over.

    Now, Zoro defeating a 1 Billion guy while he sails under a Yonkou himself? In this case Luffy? Super likely. 200-300 million for defeating the guy, another flat 500 million for becoming a Yonkou top commander. Just like everyone got a flat 50 million increase after Doflamingo.
    I understand that Commanders are an extension of the Yonkou threat -- so they are more valuable than equally powerful captains because taking down a Commander weakens his/her Emperor.

    That said, still, from a writing point of view, I believe there are many things that Oda should take into consideration when choosing the bounties, not only strategic rationality in-universe. My pet peeve with Luffy's increase to only 500mil is because: (a) it was Luffy's first bounty post-timeskip, so it was lackluster and underwhelming that he only increased 25% after becoming much more powerful and threatening; (b) DoFlamingo was a big deal in many ways, so it wouldn't be unreasonable if his defeat was seen as something special by the WG. Also, (c) even if bounties are not equal to power level, it sets readers' excitement and it grounds their expectations, so suddenly seeing an 1bi pirate (Jack) after Doflamingo was a shock, and to me it felt like Oda was belittling the level of the threats that came before, so Luffy was not powerful enough -- even if I can understand the in-universe reasons for Commanders to be more expensive.

    If I were an editor, I'd have advised Oda to increase Luffy's bounty to 700~800mi.

  10. #230

    Default Re: Chapter 1,023: Spitting Image

    As one piece fans, we are still discussing the importance/lack thereof with bounties; when the story already said they can be used as a measurement of power and threat level in other means?

    Come on.

  11. #231

    Default Re: Chapter 1,023: Spitting Image

    When next spoilers dropping?


  12. #232

    Default Re: Chapter 1,023: Spitting Image

    Been thinking a lot about the drawing on the wall that Enel finds at the moon.
    Sorry, but I keep hearing that the panel represented the 3 "peoples" from the moon: birkans, shandians and jayans. And yet, I don't see any reference to that in the translations I checked. According to them Enel found a panel showing a civilization that lived in the moon: "winged moon people". That's it. And on the next cover story the information that this civilization went down to Earth looking for resources. Seems pretty easy to me that we can theorize that they were... Lunarians.

    So, in a way, Lunarian could be the name given to people who lived in the sky islands and also Shandora. And also, apparently at the Red Line. We know that Shandora was connected to the ancient kingdom, they even guard their poneglyph. King also seems to have wings....
    But yes, I know that no shandoran has, so far, shown to be able to control fire. So King could have come from a specific group in this civilization, the ones that stayed in the Red Line.

    By the way, to anyone interested, those panels that Enel look at were inspired by the Mixtec Codices, a series of ancient indigenous books from the south of Mexico. Oda really did his ressearch into Amerindian art and writing styles to draw those scenes.

  13. #233

    Default Re: Chapter 1,023: Spitting Image

    Quote Originally Posted by All Fiction View Post
    If anyone were to keep Onimaru, it would probably be Kawamatsu…..

    If he survives.
    Probably. But all this talk about lineage/genes, and the fox showing up besides Ushimaru, made me think that it could be fun if all the Straw Hats got a companion.

    Luffy has plenty, like Surume and the ones from the island he trained at.
    Zoro could have Onimaru.
    Nami has Zeus.
    Usopp ?
    Sanji ?
    Chopper ?
    Robin had the badly drawn dragon.
    Franky had the sea monsters from Water 7.
    Brooke has Laboon
    Jimbe ?
    Hidden:
    Quote Originally Posted by Tamiel View Post
    Try out my first game! All feedback is welcome, enjoy and thanks. Heroine: Kiku
    Hidden:

  14. #234

    Default Re: Chapter 1,023: Spitting Image

    About Zoro, if he looks like so much to his former master Ushimaru, the fight with Gyokimaru on the bridge feels a bit strange. Don't you think ?

  15. #235
    21st Century Schizoid Man Johnny B. Decent's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 1,023: Spitting Image

    Quote Originally Posted by Kdom View Post
    About Zoro, if he looks like so much to his former master Ushimaru, the fight with Gyokimaru on the bridge feels a bit strange. Don't you think ?
    Maybe that's why Gyukimaru was so antagonistic, like he thought Zoro was copying his former master.

  16. #236

    Default Re: Chapter 1,023: Spitting Image

    Quote Originally Posted by Chams View Post
    Been thinking a lot about the drawing on the wall that Enel finds at the moon.
    Sorry, but I keep hearing that the panel represented the 3 "peoples" from the moon: birkans, shandians and jayans. And yet, I don't see any reference to that in the translations I checked. According to them Enel found a panel showing a civilization that lived in the moon: "winged moon people". That's it. And on the next cover story the information that this civilization went down to Earth looking for resources. Seems pretty easy to me that we can theorize that they were... Lunarians.
    It's not that any translation mentions the 3 peoples directly it's just that the 3 peoples depicted in the pictures are very distinct. Look at the wings, buggy antenna hair style, clothing etc.

    They all seemed to work together as one nation but there looks to be 3 clear sub cultures of one another.

    The Shandians even in the sky wore their hair like insect antenna, as a group they seemed to have all stayed together in the sky when migrating.

    The Jayan's even in the sky wore animals or animal shapes as clothing. That carried on as they migrated all the way to the blue sea.

    The Bilkin's biggest distinction is the large wings. They found a different sky island destroyed by Eneru if I remember correctly. Eneru's priests were all distinctly large winged all coming over from Bilka(?) to antagonize Skypeia.

    Urouge throws a wrench into all this as he is from Shandora with the buggy hair but also with large wings. The best explanation is that the cultures intermarried and Urouge just has some big wing genes!

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny B. Decent View Post
    Maybe that's why Gyukimaru was so antagonistic, like he thought Zoro was copying his former master.
    Oh I like this angle!
    Folks who read One Piece... Just better people. \_(ツ)_/

  17. #237
    aka demonicpoodle Kaworu's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 1,023: Spitting Image

    Okay, certainly couldn't miss commenting on this chapter even though I'm late. This is one of the best chapters of One Piece pre- or post-timeskip. The only ones that beat it are the real heavy hitters, Declaration of War, Ace's death, etc. But this has just about everything that makes One Piece what it is (nearly, we're not in the adventure portion of the arc). Intriguing lore -- including both lore of a new race and the direction things have to head, towards gods -- great tagteams, mid-battle complications (from Sanji's raid suit, though some seem to think this'll work in his benefit), inventive fighting, great action, when things are so serious that both people are willing to fight dirty to come out ahead, multiple fights heading towards their climax... My lord. And then the spread at the end absolutely stealing the show. In terms of sheer variety of good content, I'm going to have to give this one a 10/10. I see no discernible flaws.

    Davy Back is a controversial arc in general, I'm one of those who leans more towards liking it, but what it DID have that was for sure good was the Zoro/Sanji set their differences aside tag-team. This is that, but in a much more serious context against one of the most powerful pirate crews ever. Oda knocked it out of the park with King and Queen, before Wano I would've imagined that Kaido's top commanders would probably be just powerful beast dudes, powerful lion DF user, etc. But he added a lot more traits to them to spice it up.

    This SHOULD be the finale of Wano now, or final climax. But I have a feeling it'll be much longer than most think.
    Croc or Enel would never.
    Wanna see the "ancient civilization destroyed" thing done really well? FFXIV did a great take on it. The bar's high for One Piece to beat.

  18. #238
    Desire's Bland Moon puffing.cinema's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 1,023: Spitting Image

    i can't help but read each and every dirt monkey's posts as if he was in a manic episode

  19. #239
    Banned Rank: Failed Mutineer
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    Default Re: Chapter 1,023: Spitting Image

    You mean to tell me he isn't?

  20. #240

    Default Re: Chapter 1,023: Spitting Image

    Quote Originally Posted by RomanceDawn View Post
    It's not that any translation mentions the 3 peoples directly it's just that the 3 peoples depicted in the pictures are very distinct. Look at the wings, buggy antenna hair style, clothing etc.

    They all seemed to work together as one nation but there looks to be 3 clear sub cultures of one another.

    The Shandians even in the sky wore their hair like insect antenna, as a group they seemed to have all stayed together in the sky when migrating.

    The Jayan's even in the sky wore animals or animal shapes as clothing. That carried on as they migrated all the way to the blue sea.

    The Bilkin's biggest distinction is the large wings. They found a different sky island destroyed by Eneru if I remember correctly. Eneru's priests were all distinctly large winged all coming over from Bilka(?) to antagonize Skypeia.

    Urouge throws a wrench into all this as he is from Shandora with the buggy hair but also with large wings. The best explanation is that the cultures intermarried and Urouge just has some big wing genes!



    Oh I like this angle!
    Thank you so much! That makes a lot of sense.



    Zoro being a Shimotsuki could be not to make him have super special genes but to actually make it possible for him to marry Hiyori in the epilogue. If he was from a damiyo family he can be with the princess and open a dojo in Wano after the adventure

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