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Thread: American Politics: So long Trump!

  1. #3161

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Quote Originally Posted by RoboBlue View Post
    Both.
    Up until Coronavirus the more sane people on the right were more supportive of him and more dismissive of his flaws than they had been during the 2016 election.
    Except he's been losing those people from both groups since at least 2017 or so, so their gullibility has limits.


    Quote Originally Posted by RoboBlue View Post
    I still don't have a single conservative friend willing to admit he's a racist,
    I mean that's them that certainly doesn't apply to ALL conservatives and Republicans.



    Quote Originally Posted by RoboBlue View Post
    Both, but Trump deserves the lion's share of the credit for that because of his ability to tap into his supporters' hate for the media and his persistence in crushing or weeding out anyone who isn't willing to sacrifice all principles, credibility and future career prospects to make Trump sound good at all times.
    It's really all he does, all day long.
    He's not an anomaly though Republicans have been doing this for years, and it's increasingly starting to hurt the party.



    Quote Originally Posted by RoboBlue View Post
    Well yeah, that's what happens when you let a talented but insane grifter with no other useful skills take over.
    No that's what happens when a political party spends decades telling people, that certain types of other people are bad and how they want to change the country for the worse or persecute the first group (even when the bullshitters telling them this want to change the country for the worse and persecute and discriminate towards everybody including the people they want to buy into their narratives).
    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiq View Post
    I've often wondered about that myself; seems like being supported by people who only want you there so the world can end in fire (with you going to Hell in the process) would be somewhat off-putting
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  2. #3162

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Quote Originally Posted by Dorobō Neko View Post
    Because the GOP is a small tent party who will really only support name recognition.

    Biden won the nom partly because of that this time but there will be another Obama that more or less comes out of nowhere. Hell we almost had that this time around with Mayor Pete if he had polled better with black voters.

    But for the GOP? Early polls have a split field with Pence and Don Jr. pretty much tied at the top and the GOP base loves stupid racist fascists. And their primaries are winner take all.

    Pence and Ivanka are far too boring. The moderates like Hogan are going to waste their time. But Don Jr. is going to want to run knowing full well he can get the nom and have a chance to save their failing empire.

    You should assume right now Don Jr. is the front-runner for the GOP in 2024.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyan D. Funk View Post
    The 2024 GOP primary is probably going to look like this:

    - Don Jr.
    - Mike Pompeo
    - eyepatch guy
    - Mike Pence
    - Ted Cruz
    - A red state freshman congresscritter who will spend the Biden years making headlines as a cartoonish racist
    - Tom Cotton
    - Looten Plunder
    - Kanye West
    I didn't realize he was that popular and willing to run.

    Taking a step back...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dorobō Neko View Post
    Bold of you to assume Don Jr. can defeat Biden.
    In 2024 the American people are going to be enraged by the ongoing economic devastation caused by the Coronavirus, and the GOP will probably be able to successfully pin a lot of that on the Biden administration.
    He's also not a very charismatic leader and his administration's response to the pandemic will inevitably be kneecapped by Trump tools unwilling to wear masks and his own reluctance to resort to much-needed socialist policies.
    Plus, we should expect Biden to see a serious challenger from the left in the Democratic primary who'll further split the party when the DNC inevitably tries to screw them over.

    If Don Jr wins the primary then him defeating Biden is definitely not out of the question.

  3. #3163
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    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    No one is going to primary Biden, let alone a "serious challenger from the left." lol

  4. #3164
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    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Quote Originally Posted by RoboBlue
    In 2024 the American people are going to be enraged by the ongoing economic devastation caused by the Coronavirus, and the GOP will probably be able to successfully pin a lot of that on the Biden administration.
    He's also not a very charismatic leader and his administration's response to the pandemic will inevitably be kneecapped by Trump tools unwilling to wear masks and his own reluctance to resort to much-needed socialist policies.
    Plus, we should expect Biden to see a serious challenger from the left in the Democratic primary who'll further split the party when the DNC inevitably tries to screw them over.

    If Don Jr wins the primary then him defeating Biden is definitely not out of the question.
    Seems plausible enough.

  5. #3165

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    The last time an incument Democrat was challenged was 1980 when Ted Kennedy seriously damaged Carter, refused to endorse him and then sent all his oppo research to Reagan.

    (Reminder that all the Kennedys are bastards)

  6. #3166

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Trump's responsible for incel culture? Damn that's a dumb take on how society works and how a loony corrupt bankrupt businessman has influence over the internet population.
    I think even /pol/ might refute this.

  7. #3167

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    If he loses the anti-Trump Republicans are going to go hogwild internally and there will be civil war.
    If the senate also goes, hooboy.

    I think all of you are also not understanding the GOP base.
    They live vicariously through their big strong muscle men candidates (who tend to actually be dumpy old guys but shhhh!) and when they can't live vicariously through them they lose interest. Fast.
    That's what happened partly to W Bush, and whats more it happened to him after winning the second term. Meaning he achieved more than the hypothetical loser Trump.
    Do any of you remember how insanely gung ho they were for Bush by 2004? He had his own degree of personality cult (not QAnon level but still), they were all in. And then once he won even that made him lose something to them.

    I agree that unlike Bush there will be a particularly crazy core that will still follow on with him, but the majority of Republicans will lose interest and memory hole him.
    Because that's what happened. The GOP base memory holed Bush first, before the operatives.

  8. #3168
    Crazy Woodwind Lady Envy's Avatar
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    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    I can 100% see support for Trump being swept under the rug by many groups. Evangelicals in particular. Once it's all in the past and how immoral and twisted Trump was is clear to the overwhelming majority, the Evangelicals will push their misinformation campaign that they never supported him and somehow get away with it.


  9. #3169
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    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Quote Originally Posted by Envy
    I can 100% see support for Trump being swept under the rug by many groups. Evangelicals in particular. Once it's all in the past and how immoral and twisted Trump was is clear to the overwhelming majority, the Evangelicals will push their misinformation campaign that they never supported him and somehow get away with it.
    LOL! There is 4 years worth of YouTube, Twitter, and other social media evidence proving that these yahoos supported Trump. They can wash their hands clean with this all they like, the evidence is there and they supported Trump. The fact that Trump won't be in office anymore doesn't magically change that!

  10. #3170
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    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    https://whatthefuckjusthappenedtoday...8/21/day-1310/

    Day 1310: "Season of darkness."

    Spoiler:
    • 😷 Dept. of “We Have It Totally Under Control.”

    • Global: Total confirmed cases: ~22,790,000; deaths: ~796,000
    • U.S.: Total confirmed cases: ~5,608,000; deaths: ~175,000
    • Source: Johns Hopkins University

    1/ Biden challenged Americans to overcome Trump’s “season of darkness,” saying “no rhetoric is needed. Just judge this president on the facts.” As he accepted the Democratic Party’s nomination for president, Biden urged Americans to embrace what he called “a path of hope and light” and reject Trump, who “has failed in his most basic duty to the nation: He’s failed to protect us. He has failed to protect America.” During his acceptance speech, Biden condemned Trump without ever mentioning him by name, calling “this a life-changing election” that “will determine what America’s going to look like for a long, long time.” (Washington Post / New York Times / Bloomberg / Politico / Axios / CNBC)
    • 🗳 How To Vote In The 2020 Election In Every State. Everything you need to know about mail-in and early in-person voting in every state in the age of COVID-19, including the first day you can cast your ballot in the 2020 election. (FiveThirtyEight / NBC News / Wall Street Journal)
    2/ Trump denounced Biden’s convention speech, saying “I’m the only thing standing between the American dream and total anarchy, madness and chaos.” At a gathering of the Council for National Policy in Arlington, Trump called the Democratic convention the “darkest and angriest and gloomiest” in the country’s history, saying “where Joe Biden sees American darkness, I see American greatness.” Trump claimed that voting by mail is “filthy,” a “disgrace,” and would lead to the “greatest catastrophe” ever while peddling fears about “violent mobs” overtaking U.S. cities. Trump also attacked Obama, saying “you can’t be a great president when much of what he’s done we’ve undone.” (New York Times / NBC News / Washington Post)
    3/ More than 70 former national security officials called Trump “unfit to lead,” accusing him of undermining the rule of law, “spreading misinformation,” “undermining public health experts,” aligning himself with dictators and engaging “in corrupt behavior that renders him unfit to serve as president.” The officials, who served under Trump, George W. Bush, George H.W. Bush, and Ronald Reagan, endorsed Biden, saying he has the “character, experience, and temperament to lead this nation.” (New York Times / The Hill)
    4/ Trump pledged to send “sheriffs,” “law enforcement,” and “U.S. attorneys” to polling locations to guard against the nonexistent threat of voter fraud on Election Day. An election law expert said Trump does not have the authority to deploy local law enforcement officials to monitor elections. However, when asked by Fox News host Sean Hannity if he was going to “have an ability” to monitor and avoid fraud during the elections, Trump replied: “We’re going to have everything.” While Trump’s campaign could hire off-duty police to work the polls, any attempt to do so would likely draw legal challenges from Democrats, who would argue that the move amounted to attempted voter suppression. (CNN / The Hill / Mother Jones)
    • Trump repeated his unsubstantiated claim that mail-in ballots would lead to voter fraud and claimed without evidence that states expanding mail-in voting because of the coronavirus pandemic aren’t adopting sufficient safeguards against fraud. Five states already holding elections almost entirely by mail without serious issues of fraud. Nevertheless, Trump claimed that mail-in voting “will be a tremendous embarrassment for our country, it will go on forever and you will never know who won. This is a very serious problem and something has to be done about it.” He added: “They all think I’m trying to steal the election. Just the opposite. I want fair results.” (Bloomberg)
    • Trump’s campaign provided no evidence of election fraud involving mail-in ballots after being ordered by a federal court judge to back up its claims about fraud in Pennsylvania’s vote-by-mail system. (The Intercept)
    • The Trump re-election effort has spent more than $1 billion since 2017. The record-breaking sum is the combined effort of the Trump campaign, the Republican Party, and two affiliated committees. The DNC, by comparison, has spent roughly $643 million so far, according to federal records. (Washington Post)
    • [Noted] Facebook Braces Itself for Trump to Cast Doubt on Election Results. “The world’s biggest social network is working out what steps to take should President Trump use its platform to dispute the vote.” (New York Times)
    • [Noted] The Republican Embrace of QAnon Goes Far Beyond Trump. As the president all but endorses the internet-driven conspiracy theory, it is shifting from the fringes of the internet to become an offline political movement. (New York Times)
    5/ Postmaster General Louis DeJoy testified that he is “extremely highly confident” that mail-in ballots sent seven days before Election Day will be properly processed and counted. In testimony before the Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee, DeJoy said the agency will continue to prioritize ballots over other mail, but urged the public to “vote early.” DeJoy also defended recent operational changes to the Postal Service, saying the effort is in service of making the mail agency run more efficiently, adding that the USPS will make “dramatic changes” after the election. DeJoy testified that he had never spoken to Trump about the Postal Service, adding that he also had never spoken to Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin or White House chief of staff Mark Meadows about the changes. (CBS News / Wall Street Journal / New York Times / New York Times / Politico / Washington Post / NBC News)
    • A former top Postal Service official testified that the Trump administration has been “politicizing” the Postal Service and using Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin to inappropriately influence the organization. David Williams, former USPS Inspector General and former Vice Chair of the USPS Board of Governors, testified that he resigned “when it became clear to me that the administration was politicizing the Postal Service with the treasury secretary as the lead figure for the White House in that effort.” (CBS News)
    • Louis DeJoy’s selection as Postmaster General was “highly irregular” and he was not among the candidates initially vetted for the position by a national search firm hired by USPS leaders. House Oversight Committee Democrats say DeJoy’s name was put forward by John Barger, a member of the Postal Service’s Board of Governors, who also happens to be a Republican donor and managing director at a California-based private investment firm. And, weeks before DeJoy was selected as postmaster general, Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin held a series of one-on-one meetings with members of the Postal Service Board of Governors. Neither the Treasury Department nor the Postal Service would confirm that the meetings ever occurred. (Politico / NBC News)

    ✏️ Notables.

    1. Trump filed an emergency request for a federal appeals court to stop the release of his tax returns. In the motion, Trump’s lawyers asked the court to impose an immediate stay on the case, allowing his legal team time to appeal. (NBC News / CNN)
    2. Steve Bannon pleaded not guilty after being indicted and taken into custody in New York on federal fraud charges. A federal judge agreed to release the former Trump administration chief strategist on a $5 million bond, and his travel will be restricted to New York and Washington D.C.. Bannon is also prohibited from using private jets or boats without prior approval. (Axios)
    3. Trump Jr. attempted to distance himself from the “We Build The Wall” crowdfunding campaign after Steve Bannon and three others were arrested and charged with defrauding donors. Trump Jr.‘s name is listed on the organization’s website as having endorsed the campaign to build a private border wall. (The Hill)
    4. Former Kansas Secretary of State Kris Kobach said in an interview last year that he had spoken with Trump three times about the private border wall project at the center of a federal fraud investigation. Kobach said Trump was “enthusiastic” about the project and it carried his “blessing.” (CNN)
    5. Trump blamed California for its wildfires and threatened to withhold federal money, telling the state “you gotta clean your floors, you gotta clean your forests.” He added: “Maybe we’re just going to have to make them pay for it because they don’t listen to us.” (Politico)
    Waldorf: You know Statler, after watching the last nine hundred episodes of One Piece, I think I've come to a conclusion.
    Statler: No you haven't.
    Both: DOHOHOHOHOHO!

  11. #3171
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    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    5. Trump blamed California for its wildfires and threatened to withhold federal money, telling the state “you gotta clean your floors, you gotta clean your forests.” He added: “Maybe we’re just going to have to make them pay for it because they don’t listen to us.” (Politico)
    Does Trump think that Californians can Stanley Steemer their forests like they can do floors? Does Trump think Californians WANT lightning strikes sparking up the blazes?

    November can't come soon enough!

  12. #3172

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaba Kaba Fruit View Post
    All I saw was 25 minutes of political virtue signalling. To say that you can genuinely get behind Biden now because of it just shows, Robby, that you're a reflection of a perpetual trap that people keep falling into: The trap of charismatic seduction. The EXACT trap that Trump used to establish his cult base.
    Whut?


    There's a vast difference between going "I can see him being Presidential and what the country needs right now" and "That 20 minute speech has singlehandedly changed the opinion I've had on him for years and I personally really like him now after 20 minutes!"

    I like his Green New Deal plan, I like the statements he's been making on everything, the choice he made for VP, and that speech showed that he can at least stand on stage and seem like a sane human being that actually cares, and everything thats been tossed at him as criticism about his stutter or mental decline isn't showing in the least.

    I'm not super gung ho about him now or anything, but I *can* see what others were seeing and go "okay, he'll be fine." rather than "ugh, I guess this is the option other dems forced me to, at least hes better than Trump."
    Last edited by Robby; August 21st, 2020 at 10:38 PM.
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  13. #3173
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    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Eh. It seemed like your typical "politician says whatever is topical" speech to me. I straight up don't believe George Floyd's daughter said that though.
    Gonna give ya the D.!

  14. #3174

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Trump's legacy in the GOP, in the long run, is going to be the same legacy as every other strongman dictator in the Americas - there will be until the heat death of the universe a loud but tiny faction of diehards who will, without fail, show up on TV and go "BOY THINGS WERE MUCH BETTER WHEN TRUMP WAS AROUND TO PROVIDE STABILITY".

    Replace Trump with Trujillo/Duvalier/the various dipshits of Bolivia/Peron (actually maybe not Peron, Argentine politics still revolves around that man)/Stroessner/Vargas as needed.

  15. #3175

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Quote Originally Posted by The D. View Post
    I straight up don't believe George Floyd's daughter said that though.
    You'd be wrong on that one.



    Eh. It seemed like your typical "politician says whatever is topical" speech to me.
    You're wrong on that one too.
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  16. #3176

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Do not underestimate Americans' desire to hear a speech that wasn't made by a bot using copious amount of racial dogwhistles and weird controversies from the 90s (I'm pretty sure Trump brought up low-flow toilets recently.)

    One of the many pieces to Biden's appeal is his ability to seem like the kind of guy where, if he was president, you wouldn't have to spend every waking moment of every day for four years thinking about how he's president.

  17. #3177
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    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    No, it was still just a typical politician's speech. You can like it, but that doesn't make it anything other than what it is. People trying to build biden up as anything other than a desperate attempt to return to normalcy are setting themselves up for disappointment.

    Also, we would know exactly how biden would become president if he wins. Trumpy damaged the office so much that even biden seems like a savior to a lot of people.
    Gonna give ya the D.!

  18. #3178

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Most elections are referendums on the previous administration. Wars. scandals, depressions, whatever. That wouldn't be anything new or unique to Biden. Hoover won in a landslide, then got blamed for the great depression, and then was completely destroyed by Roosevelt four years later... who then kept the office for FOUR terms, even during WW2. Nixon resigned and it tanked thinks for Ford who lost soundly in the next election. Bush Jr. was in charge of 9/11 and multiple endless wars and an economic collapse and then we got Obama.

    "Got the office because the previous guy sucked" is nothing new, it's why the parties switch so regularly and we haven't had three terms of the same party in decades.

    Also just maybe if Biden's son hadn't died, he would have just run 4 years ago and would have won then. Unless he wins the electoral without winning the popular, there's no asterisk to be had.

    attempt to return to normalcy
    You say that as if its a bad thing.
    Last edited by Robby; August 21st, 2020 at 11:22 PM.
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  19. #3179
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    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post
    Most elections are referendums on the previous administration. Wars. scandals, depressions, whatever. That wouldn't be anything new or unique to Biden. Hoover won in a landslide, then got blamed for the great depression, and then was completely destroyed by Roosevelt four years later... who then kept the office for FOUR terms, even during WW2. Nixon resigned and it tanked thinks for Ford who lost soundly in the next election. Bush Jr. was in charge of 9/11 and multiple endless wars and an economic collapse and then we got Obama.

    "Got the office because the previous guy sucked" is nothing new, it's why the parties switch so regularly and we haven't had three terms of the same party in decades.

    Also just maybe if Biden's son hadn't died, he would have just run 4 years ago and would have won then. Unless he wins the electoral without winning the popular, there's no asterisk to be had.



    You say that as if its a bad thing.
    It's not bad, it's just not good enough. I want progress, not stagnation. If biden wins, that's good, great even. For the moment. But who's going to carry the torch forward? Harris? Mayor Pete? None of them want the things I want, so why would I offer them my blind loyalty and adoration?
    Gonna give ya the D.!

  20. #3180

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Who said *anything* about "blind loyalty and adoration"?

    Get the party that at least slightly matches your views in charge, then hold them accountable, push for policies you want at local and national levels. Like, for example, Biden is in for green new deal now, and he wasn't before.

    It's politics, NOT a cult, no matter what Trump would have you think.
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