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Thread: Chapter 862: The Intelligent Ones

  1. #341

    Default Re: Chapter 862: The Intelligent Ones

    Assuming Luffy beats BM now and she loses her Yonko status and absolutely everything, what are the stakes to be supposed for Wano and what exactly would make Kaido a believable threat any more?
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  2. #342

    Default Re: Chapter 862: The Intelligent Ones

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Mario View Post
    Now now, let's not rush on ahead with discarding it yet. Especially when we still haven't gotten a flashback as to what happened when Lola left Totland. And it's not as if Pudding HAS to be an irredeemable villain to get away with manipulating the memories of a mother who mocks her appearance.
    Still, I think the theory about kid Pudding being supposed to marry Loki and using her power to make it like it was supposed to be Lola is almost dead. it seems that the third-eyed tribe is view as being repulsive/scary in the One Piece's world . BM making Pudding marry Sanji was ok since she always planned to betray the Vinsmoke but if she wanted to improve her relationship with the giant tribe better it would be too much of a risky move even by trying to hide the eye with her bang. We also know that Sanji is first one to find the third eye beautiful. There is already enough narrative gymnastic in this arc.

  3. #343
    I do, bro! I do! Shadowgreed's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 862: The Intelligent Ones

    Is good too know that Sanji has another opportunity for his family to realize that he can do everything they can without the need of armor, which it still bugs me on how his papa didn't make any comment about it when they fought.


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  4. #344

    Default Re: Chapter 862: The Intelligent Ones

    Quote Originally Posted by Broccoli View Post

    ??? That's exactly how the fight went! LOL. Cracker just kept throwing biscuits at Luffy and hiding behind them, hoping Luffy would fight them endlessly and die once he ran out of stamina. Which is why Luffy decided to start eating the biscuits untill Cracker ran out of stamina.

    Also Cracker's ability counters Luffy perfectly, since Luffy's a brawler. Katakuri, however, seems to fall in Sanji's cathegory. (Both are CoO specialists)
    cracker actually cut g4's arm the moment luffy got near him...and luffy wasn't even able to KO him with his own strenght,he used cracker's thrust and his armor's hardness to KO him,he never got a punch in.
    if anything the battle shown like luffy is not even at the level of fighting mano-a-mano with a yonkou commander

  5. #345
    Someone call for Zeidoktor sgamer82's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 862: The Intelligent Ones

    Quote Originally Posted by Omni View Post
    The people writing the longest posts get the most things wrong. Quit underestimating Luffy, quit underestimating Sanji, and quit thinking we have time to revisit Big Mom for a more overwhelming defeat. She is going to lose Yonkou status by the time this arc is over.
    Quote Originally Posted by ARTEMlS View Post
    Assuming Luffy beats BM now and she loses her Yonko status and absolutely everything, what are the stakes to be supposed for Wano and what exactly would make Kaido a believable threat any more?
    I don't think Emperor status is something you can just lose in the same way the Warlords can be disavowed by the government.

    She could lose, and even lose big, and remain an Emperor by virtue of being the biggest bad for miles.

    My feeling has been that Big Mom will take just such a hit to her prestige thanks to Luffy and Bege, but she won't die and it won't do much more​ than set her back in a big way.

    My feeling is she'll either still be kicking by arcs end or, if she is killed, it won't be from Luffy directly. Everything to me is just too committed to Kaido being the Emperor Luffy brings down.
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  6. #346

    Default Re: Chapter 862: The Intelligent Ones

    I do not think Cracker could do much against multiple King Kong Guns.
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  7. #347

    Default Re: Chapter 862: The Intelligent Ones

    Is it me or Big Mom doesn't live up to her status ? Like, in the whole arc, I didn't sense any danger or threat from her ? Is it her behavior or her chara design ? I don't know ! Katakuri seems more dangerous than her btw.

  8. #348
    Ship Surfer The Tenth Strawhat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 862: The Intelligent Ones

    I used to think like some of the people here believing that Luffy and the smaller half of the SHs would beat Big Mom, but then I asked myself, how would this help the story? Turns out, it doesn't at all. For one, it would tarnish the reputation and threat level of the Yonkou in general. It would also make Kaido, who's gotten credible hype and build-up since pre-timeskip and needs all this preparation for, look less alarming if Luffy's was above Yonkou level. And two, it would destroy the constant theme of him as the underdog of the entire series. There's a reason why Bege's plan was an assassination the first place, he doesn't look like a fighter, more like a planner. I can't see him scuffling it out with fisticuffs against a monster like BM.

    At most, two of the Yonkou are going down by Luffy, Kaido and Teach. Shanks is dead and BM's forces is gonna be heavily crippled by the end of this arc.
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  9. #349

    Default Re: Chapter 862: The Intelligent Ones

    I still stick to my original grab Sanji and escape, maybe punch a Commander or two on your way out. However, with recent developments, I care not guess. I am just looking forward to see what happens with Pudding.
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  10. #350

    Default Re: Chapter 862: The Intelligent Ones

    What is that nonsense that capone is not a fighter? If he captured you in his castle, he is like a demigod there. Luffy and BM fighting inside him, wait and see how much he will help. Not to mention he seems to create castles outside too, we have yet to see the real power of his fruit. Oh yes, and he also got seastone weapons like that spear, perfect to fight df users with.

  11. #351
    Brookstache Sick_Fool's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 862: The Intelligent Ones

    It's obvious that there's definitely more beyond the bullying flashback, so I'll reserve my judgment for now.

    I do kind of see where Oda is going with all of this.
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  12. #352
    Hawk D. Raven Sephi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 862: The Intelligent Ones

    The insanity of that was fun!~

  13. #353
    Flagon Snaggin' Dragon Kaido King of the Beasts's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 862: The Intelligent Ones

    Quote Originally Posted by luffy1988 View Post
    Is it me or Big Mom doesn't live up to her status ? Like, in the whole arc, I didn't sense any danger or threat from her ? Is it her behavior or her chara design ? I don't know ! Katakuri seems more dangerous than her btw.
    Underestimation kills.


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  14. #354
    Hawk D. Raven Sephi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 862: The Intelligent Ones

    I also loved the twist with pudding...I genuinely didn't see it coming!

  15. #355
    Hells Memories Kishido's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 862: The Intelligent Ones

    Something I noticed just now... The Sanji and Pudding parallels.

    Not only they have similar hobbies with baking and cooking (If not acted by Pudding), they now even have a similar backstory of some sort
    • Both were bullied by their siblings because of being different
    • The parents have been harsh to both... Pudding maybe not that much but still to a level
    • Both parents are more or less using their child... Big Mom wants not only the alliance with Germa but also the Third Eye ability... And Judge has given no fucks about Sanji but no wants him for his own goals.


    And now they key difference... Sanji being different is the fact that he is the most human out of the siblings with the biggest heart... Something his mother was proud for... Pudding on the other hand became twisted in personality... And now it's somehow nice to see that the guy, who was treated like shit, is the one touching Pudding's heart

  16. #356
    SKADI IS A HELL OF A DRUG MrBits's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 862: The Intelligent Ones

    Quote Originally Posted by Kishido View Post
    Something I noticed just now... The Sanji and Pudding parallels.

    Not only they have similar hobbies with baking and cooking (If not acted by Pudding), they now even have a similar backstory of some sort
    • Both were bullied by their siblings because of being different
    • The parents have been harsh to both... Pudding maybe not that much but still to a level
    • Both parents are more or less using their child... Big Mom wants not only the alliance with Germa but also the Third Eye ability... And Judge has given no fucks about Sanji but no wants him for his own goals.

    And now they key difference... Sanji being different is the fact that he is the most human out of the siblings with the biggest heart... Something his mother was proud for... Pudding on the other hand became twisted in personality... And now it's somehow nice to see that the guy, who was treated like shit, is the one touching Pudding's heart
    A small correction, we don't know if those kids were her siblings.

  17. #357

    Default Re: Chapter 862: The Intelligent Ones

    Re:Cracker Fight.

    Luffy consumed the crackers, bloating himself and creating a larger surface area. Then using Cracker's own force against him when he lunged for the killing blow with his Pretzel attack resulted in essentially a Gear 4 attack on the scale of King Kong Gun. Maybe not as destructive because Crackers soldiers took the blows too, but it's not unreasonable to say the attack was very close to that scale.
    Rereading that chapter on the last page, looks like the moment Luffy used a Gear 4 attack + supplemented by crackers + Cracker's own attack seemed to have knocked him out on the first soldier Cracker impacted.

  18. #358

    Default Re: Chapter 862: The Intelligent Ones

    To be honest when I seen this weeks chapter and Sanjis hype starting to show itself as arc slowly comes to climax I somehow want Count and Sanji fight to happen. With Sanji clearly winning.



    Count Nivatori is over 400mln Pirate and has ability to fly. He has very strong Paramecia/ Zoan devil fruit that is connected in a way to food theme of an arc.



    Sanji was paired with Jinbe during final fight of Fishman Island Arc- Jinbe who is also said to be over 400mln pirate. So Jinbe and Sanji were already shown to be somehow comparable/ in same tier so to say.


    Sanjis fight with Count has a lot of potential as it would be aerial battle, possibly partially on ground and in first part of Pedro vs Tamago fight, Tamago was hinted to be longleg fighter using extremely strong kicks during fights- another argument for their possible match up. Also roosters are well know for their dangerous kicking with using of claws they have- also an argument.


    Plenty of potential for interesting fight and I also think that Sanji beating over 400mln pirate would properly estimate his strength(s) in more than one way. Also with Wadasumi being commented by Sanji as cooked pufferfish gives me idea that Sanji could also say something alike when it comes to Count being fried chicken



  19. #359
    Discovered Stowaway blackout's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 862: The Intelligent Ones

    Quote Originally Posted by Maju View Post
    cracker actually cut g4's arm the moment luffy got near him
    Lol that doesn't mean anything, It's been made pretty clear that Luffy is still vulnerable to slashing attacks even though he's still rubber it's blunt force attacks that don't do anything.

    And Luffy did KO him with his own strength, he made sure to bait cracker in order to take advantage of his hard crackers the force used to throw him a long distance was all Luffy if a wall had been right in front of him he'd have used that instead. The Luffy disrespect in this forum is ridiculous.
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  20. #360

    Default Re: Chapter 862: The Intelligent Ones

    I got the impression that Sanji-fans do not properly understand the character of Sanji at all.
    Sanji has literally never been interested in becoming stronger, if so, he's really strong, he is not, and should not be as strong as Zoro and Luffy, and thats because Sanji complements this lack of strength with brains!!.
    And we've seen this the entire series, while Zoro and Luffy overcome their rivals with pure strength, Sanji combines brains/strength
    Hachi and Arlong got Zoro and Luffy in bunch of trouble and they just went like dur dur, im stronger so I win, while Sanji had to figure out how to fool Kuroobi in order to defeat him afterwards.
    it pretty much happened the right same thing against the Baroque Works, Zoro and Luffy just kept slashing and punching till they won, while Sanji had to find an opening to Bon Clay's tricky ability.
    then again, the same goes to CP9, Zoro and Luffy going full shit against their opponents, while Sanji tricks Jabra into allowing him to give him an open kick with Diable Jambe.
    Once agaaain, Zoro and Luffy doing their barbarous fights against Ryuma and Moria, while Sanji finds his way into properly kicking an invisible man's butt.

    So it made sense for him to get his leg fractured/cracked by Vergo, or stomped by Doula Mongo, as long as his opponent is not an overwhelming monster with massive strength, Sanji's finding his way into defeating him.

    let's also not forget Sanji came up with the idea of damaging Maxim, and also, uuhm.. well he did something at Enies Lobby too, I just cant remember what it was.
    so rather than expecting Sanji to beat down someone like Katakuri who seems to be a massive threat to whoever he faces, I'd expect Sanji to fix things the way he's always been doing it, and this arc gives him more chances to show brains/culinary skills than strength tbh.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by blackout View Post
    Lol that doesn't mean anything, It's been made pretty clear that Luffy is still vulnerable to slashing attacks even though he's still rubber it's blunt force attacks that don't do anything.
    uuh no.

    only slashing attacks coming from strong opponents hurt him.

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