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Thread: Dragonball Discussion Kai: Broly but this time it's not Broly

  1. #4661

    Default Re: Dragonball Discussion Kai: Broly but this time it's not Broly

    Quote Originally Posted by Md-Martin View Post
    Why is that? Was something announced at Jump Festa?
    The Director and team behind Dragon Ball Super is doing a full remake of Dragon Quest: The Adventures of Dai.

    Toei is also starting up World Trigger again.

  2. #4662

    Default Re: Dragonball Discussion Kai: Broly but this time it's not Broly

    Ooof. Well that's disappointing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey King View Post
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  3. #4663

    Default Re: Dragonball Discussion Kai: Broly but this time it's not Broly

    I'm actually totally down with a Dragon Quest remake, especially given that for some insane reason the original series never made it here. Take those Toriyama designs and comedy and Dragon Quest world and do something fresher.

    I love Dragonball. original and Z, but Super was, at best... fanficcy? However much involvement Toriyama had or didn't have, the entire 130 episode series felt like filler arcs. There were never really any stakes or growth (except briefly during Future Trunk's story) and it all just felt like it was filling time waiting for the actual story to start. Like they're terrified to get to the canon ending of Z where they'd have to age the characters and start actually thinking about what to do about GT, even if its basically overwritten now by default anyway.

    Battle of the Gods is the only thing that really truly felt Toriyama-esque. That had his fingerprints all over it including willigness to make the villains GOOFY. The Broly movie as well to a lesser extent, but even with all the backstory stuff and improvement on Broly, the basic character in both design and how his power works in making him a berserker aren't really how Toriyama would typically approach the idea if it was fresh from him.

    Everything else? He contributed some designs and maybe some overall ideas, but it just didn't feel like anything.

    Especially the 50 episode tournament arc (longer still if you count the gathering and pre-tournament.) Jiren is such a bland forgettable antagonist it took me a moment to even remember his name just now, I was going to leave it as "bald white guy".

    I know there's limits when the cast has reached the crazy levels of power that they're at... but the original series hit extremes with Super Saiyan and Freeza, and still managed to up its scale with the androids and Buu while having plot twists and character development. If the leads are too strong, then... use the secondaries?

    Or hey, maybe adapt the Reincarnated as Yamcha manga and flesh that out. That'd be fun. Reincarnation animes are hot right now.
    Last edited by Robby; December 21st, 2019 at 12:29 AM.
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  4. #4664

    Default Re: Dragonball Discussion Kai: Broly but this time it's not Broly

    World trigger from the start or from where they left off? And I am glad that Houshin Engi terrible failure compared to Jojo's huge success is inspiring them to not do the bare minimum for these revivals.
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  5. #4665

    Default Re: Dragonball Discussion Kai: Broly but this time it's not Broly

    It's too bad we might not be getting more anime in a while, but I think if they let a few arcs complete in the manga right now, Super's rough edges could be ironed out very nicely.

    I'm 100% a Super defender, but while I think it's not as bad as some people seem to say, I think it's also not as good as it could be and I think the main reason it wasn't as good as it could be was because it had such a horrible schedule and was rushed out. I really do detect care for the series in there, the staff just couldn't realize it.

    I think the anime team is capable of much better characterization than the manga.

    I think the manga's writing is still too much plotting over actual personality, but now it offers a very solid plot foundation for the anime team to work with. I think what we have in Moro could be absolutely wonderful when given to the much better character writers of the Toei staff.

    Moro is a great idea with a good base, the plot elements surrounding Merus are great. The Earth team actually getting some time in was good. Goku and Vegeta both having their techniques to learn, rather than just a straight-up power-up is pretty fresh. That Buu fight and Grand Supreme Kai? It's all good stuff! So many neat little things like seeing more races and the Yardrats having a much bigger technique pool than expected because of Instant Transmission being a beginner technique. Seeing more of Yardrat at all is really cool.

    I think it could be improved so much with stronger characterization, though. Moro is really basic. What even is Merus' individual personality, though beyond sort of nice ally? Gohan's fight was just a fight. Goku and Vegeta are their pretty basic selves. I feel like you could have more fun with the henchmen. I think its got the plot points and techniques down, but not quite the character, though, it's leaps and bounds over anything the manga offered before this arc and something I'd actually say is competent, even if flawed, like I call the Super anime.

  6. #4666

    Default Re: Dragonball Discussion Kai: Broly but this time it's not Broly

    I dont know why everyone is in such a rush to see more Super, if anything, the fact that they are actually taking their sweet time is GREAT.

    Anyway, I agree with Robby... Latin America was crazy for Dai...or Fly as he was known here. I think this is a great decision.

  7. #4667

    Default Re: Dragonball Discussion Kai: Broly but this time it's not Broly

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Krupp View Post
    I dont know why everyone is in such a rush to see more Super, if anything, the fact that they are actually taking their sweet time is GREAT.

    Anyway, I agree with Robby... Latin America was crazy for Dai...or Fly as he was known here. I think this is a great decision.
    They're not taking their time, though. Scripts aren't being written, storyboards are not being drawn and staff is not being scheduled (as far as we know). This extended gap won't mean anything if the series isn't actually in production.

    That said, if it's going to happen it'll happen in April or not at all this year.
    Avatar: Igarashi Kyou (married name: Hasumi Kyou) from the web comic 性転換後、親友と (Seitenka-go. Shin'yuu to) by Eroe (Pixiv; Twitter) | Gender bender is love! Gender bender is life!
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  8. #4668

    Default Re: Dragonball Discussion Kai: Broly but this time it's not Broly

    Omg Julie! I'm a big fan of your posts. They are awesome. Thanks for responding!

  9. #4669

    Default Re: Dragonball Discussion Kai: Broly but this time it's not Broly

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Krupp View Post
    Omg Julie! I'm a big fan of your posts. They are awesome. Thanks for responding!
    Oh, no problem! ♥ I'm looking forward to learning what takes over for Kitarou in April...
    Avatar: Igarashi Kyou (married name: Hasumi Kyou) from the web comic 性転換後、親友と (Seitenka-go. Shin'yuu to) by Eroe (Pixiv; Twitter) | Gender bender is love! Gender bender is life!
    Julie | She/Her | Pansexual

  10. #4670

    Default Re: Dragonball Discussion Kai: Broly but this time it's not Broly

    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post
    Or hey, maybe adapt the Reincarnated as Yamcha manga and flesh that out. That'd be fun. Reincarnation animes are hot right now.
    They're also overdone.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiq View Post
    I've often wondered about that myself; seems like being supported by people who only want you there so the world can end in fire (with you going to Hell in the process) would be somewhat off-putting
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  11. #4671

    Default Re: Dragonball Discussion Kai: Broly but this time it's not Broly

    DQ is coming in October, right? Which I just want to check out for it seemingly wanting to do the 90s aesthetic.

    So maybe DB IS coming in Spring after Kitaro. But then again I hear Toei has a bunch of projects again and a bunch of DB's staff is apparently going to DQ.

  12. #4672
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    Default Re: Dragonball Discussion Kai: Broly but this time it's not Broly

    I got one of the Dragon Ball Z double features for X-mas (I got the Movie 7 and Movie 9 set.). With this double feature, it's my first time ever that I got to see the Bojack movie. And I have to say I really enjoy the movie and it can say it's one of my favorite Dragon Ball movies now. I really like the animation for the movie, even before the villians of the movie shows up like the breif Tenshinhan and Trunks fight.

    And now I can see why Zangya is an pretty popular character for one of the movie villains. I always like her character design even back in the days that I play Budokai Tenkaichi 3 (Zangya was one of the characters that I usually play as in that game).

  13. #4673

    Default Re: Dragonball Discussion Kai: Broly but this time it's not Broly

    What other series have really good tournament arcs that aren't solely tournament stories

    for example some I can think of are
    Yu Yu Hakusho
    My Hero Accademia
    Naruto
    Katoky Hitman Reborn
    Negima! Magister Negi Magi
    Fairy Tail


    that's all I can think of right now how about you guys?

  14. #4674

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kizuchan View Post
    DQ is coming in October, right? Which I just want to check out for it seemingly wanting to do the 90s aesthetic.

    So maybe DB IS coming in Spring after Kitaro. But then again I hear Toei has a bunch of projects again and a bunch of DB's staff is apparently going to DQ.
    Dai no Daibouken is basically Dragonball with swords and magic, so you'll probably enjoy it a lot.
    I've read the whole 37 volume manga and seen the original anime that finally got subbed recently.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post
    I'm actually totally down with a Dragon Quest remake, especially given that for some insane reason the original series never made it here. Take those Toriyama designs and comedy and Dragon Quest world and do something fresher.
    Although I love Dai, it isn't really that close to the world or writing style of the games.
    Dragon Quest: Abel Yuusha fills that niche nicely though, and it's almost fully subbed by some guy on Youtube.
    Last edited by RoboBlue; December 30th, 2019 at 01:35 PM.

  15. #4675

    Default Re: Dragonball Discussion Kai: Broly but this time it's not Broly

    Looks like it's Digimon that's going to replace Kitaro.

    Honestly, get this Moro arc done and then you've (potentially) got two arcs to cover for a new TV series (Broly and Moro) before starting a new series.

    Better for everyone, the only trouble still being that when they do get to the point where they want to start a new series that it won't once again fall victim to bad scheduling.

    Since the manga is still going I don't buy that they've dropped the idea of doing an anime completely (that or they really are just planning to continue the story with movies).

  16. #4676

    Default Re: Dragonball Discussion Kai: Broly but this time it's not Broly

    Quote Originally Posted by Kizuchan View Post
    Since the manga is still going I don't buy that they've dropped the idea of doing an anime completely (that or they really are just planning to continue the story with movies).
    Manga costs almost nothing to create in terms of time or production and can make them a lot of money.

    Anime costs a lot to make and needs a lot of people.

    Just because one is being worked on doesn't mean the anime is too. new movie every two years might be all they need for the franchise.
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  17. #4677

    Default Re: Dragonball Discussion Kai: Broly but this time it's not Broly

    I feel like it would be odd if they wouldn't want to take advantage one of their biggest cashcows. Even after Super is done, DB is still the biggest money-maker for Toei
    (or perhaps they go with the strategy of riding the wave since it is still making money).

    Movies are also one way to continue making money.

    Both of the "endings" (Broly and ToP) feel pretty inconclusive to me, too. GT got a conclusive one because they really didn't seem to want to do any more of it.

    I still continue to find the hate around Super really strangely overblown. I think at worst it's toy commercially boring (see Jelly Vegeta), at best genuinely entertaining and fun (all the Ultra Instinct stuff, bunch of the new characters, the slice of life episodes).

    I actually got around to reading some of the original manga and I don't really get what's so much more special about it?

    I particularly read the Saiyan Saga and I guess the art is cool, but the most interesting parts of that story arc turned out to be filler.

    Gohan's training felt unearned and Piccolo's turn was *really* sudden without any of the connective tissue the anime added (and I thought it felt a little sudden in the anime, too). I thought it was neat that Goku denied his heritage in the anime and the Saiyan lore wasn't there, either (tho I know Toriyama gave input to the anime for that).
    Tenshinhan and Yamcha were even more poorly treated in the manga. (I still really dislike it that there was no reference to their character arcs, Tenshinhan's character's focal point was never his relationship with Chaozu and damn it, Yamcha went from a bumbling bandit to at least a little bit more serious fighter, but nah).

    The manga is too quick for me, the anime too slow. But at least Goku vs. Vegeta was still the same. The problem is that the reason why I stuck around was for Gohan.

    None of it really touched me emotionally that much probably because I already know the story.
    I also sort of scanned around for scenes I was interested in and the manga didn't have Goku apologize when he went down with Cell and Vegeta's growth was even more forced in there. Randomly gets the energy sensing ability. He just sort of gets Super Saiyan. He just sort of is now a good guy cause of Bulma. All bothered me in the anime, but even more glaring in the manga because there are no small filler scenes to connect the tissue.
    His arc is a lot more told through dialog than actually shown through his actions.

    Because there is no "filler" it goes faster, but the flaws in the storytelling really stand out. I can see why you feel like the Cell Saga is really bleak and joyless. I remember the Cell arc for the character arcs and the Cell arc filler came at an extremely good time narratively and alliviated a bunch of that. The Trunks chapter has the DB Minus problem.

    Some time ago I also read the Pilaf arc. Toriyama is definitely a better gag/comedic mangaka than he is an action mangaka (or even action writer). I liked the Pilaf arc much more than anything I saw later in the manga.
    Last edited by Kizuchan; January 18th, 2020 at 02:35 PM.

  18. #4678

    Default Re: Dragonball Discussion Kai: Broly but this time it's not Broly

    Quote Originally Posted by Kizuchan View Post

    Both of the "endings" (Broly and ToP) feel pretty inconclusive to me, too. GT got a conclusive one because they really didn't seem to want to do any more of it.
    I almost guarantee they wanted to do more of it you make 2 other series both of which have 100+ episodes and then you make a 3rd show which is only 64 episodes, then make a 4th series which has a 100+ plus episodes?

    Now granted a good portion of those episodes in DB and DBZ were filler but it's not like there was a whole lot of interesting stuff going for a good majority of GT.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiq View Post
    I've often wondered about that myself; seems like being supported by people who only want you there so the world can end in fire (with you going to Hell in the process) would be somewhat off-putting
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  19. #4679

    Default Re: Dragonball Discussion Kai: Broly but this time it's not Broly

    You can't look at the original and go "oh its missing all the bloat that I liked." That's completely unfair and the wrong way to approach it, especially since you're cherry-picking the filler you like and ignoring the metric ton of garbage. You also can't just jump around skimming for scenes.

    Read it all, in order. The pacing and characterization and tone are just better all around, and the fights are way better too..
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  20. #4680

    Default Re: Dragonball Discussion Kai: Broly but this time it's not Broly

    While I don't remember a good 3rd of the manga's fights I do remember being let down by how brisk the Vegetto-Buu fight felt so I wouldn't say "all" the fights were better in the manga.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiq View Post
    I've often wondered about that myself; seems like being supported by people who only want you there so the world can end in fire (with you going to Hell in the process) would be somewhat off-putting
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