View Poll Results: Who is The Big Bad Wolf?

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  • Marshall D. Teach "Blackbeard"

    431 64.42%
  • Sakazuki "Akainu"

    39 5.83%
  • The Gorosei

    93 13.90%
  • Shanks "Red Hair

    15 2.24%
  • Charlotte LinLin "Big Mom"

    3 0.45%
  • Kaidou "The man of a thousand beasts"

    3 0.45%
  • Kong

    2 0.30%
  • Dragon

    7 1.05%
  • Seventh Shichibukai

    2 0.30%
  • Other

    74 11.06%
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Thread: Who is the final villain in One Piece? 2.0

  1. #1721

    Default Re: Who is the final villain in One Piece? 2.0

    Actually, we can simply assume that he was just pretending to do his shichibukai job.


    Doflamingo cut off Crocodile's head during the war, Crocodile doesn't die because he's a logia. Now we know he can use haki ->> what the shichibukai did during the war doesn't mean anything. It means Doflamingo doesn't want to kill Crocodile. Why ? Maybe he likes him i don't know.

    Same for Sakazuki and Aokiji. They could have beat the crap out of their opponent ( according to what they showed during the war ) by awaking their devil fruit. These guys can turn an island into ice for years... the other one can create goddamn volcanoes.......

  2. #1722

    Default Re: Who is the final villain in One Piece? 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Don_Freecs View Post

    Same for Sakazuki and Aokiji. They could have beat the crap out of their opponent ( according to what they showed during the war ) by awaking their devil fruit. These guys can turn an island into ice for years... the other one can create goddamn volcanoes.......
    I don't think Sakazuki would hold back though. Plus, it is unconfirmed they are awakened.

  3. #1723

    Default Re: Who is the final villain in One Piece? 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Koliber View Post
    I myself am in a "Buggy cannot be cut" camp, but I must note that we've also had Nami constantly beating the crap out of Luffy (at the beggining of the series Oda tried to avoid that in kinda creative way but unfortunately dropped it early, which is a shame; serioulsy, it took me a while to remember why Garp hurting Luffy is so weird) or infamous Alabasta bar scene. One Piece has as many (for lack of a better word) "in-universe" gags as it has "out-of-universe" ones and it's not always obvious which are which.
    Yeah the fist of love probaly was confusing to some people who thought nami could hurt luffy

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by KageKageKing View Post
    I don't think Sakazuki would hold back though. Plus, it is unconfirmed they are awakened.
    Well there's also the fact that akainu turning the battlefield into lava would kill a ton of marines as it would pirates, akainu's not above making sacrifices but that power seems like it would cause too much collateral ( aka marine subordinate ) damage.

    Also they fought for 10 days on that island so maybe it didnt change instantly. To what ot is now. It being an awakening is pretty likely though.
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  4. #1724

    Default Re: Who is the final villain in One Piece? 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Koliber View Post
    I myself am in a "Buggy cannot be cut" camp, but I must note that we've also had Nami constantly beating the crap out of Luffy (at the beggining of the series Oda tried to avoid that in kinda creative way but unfortunately dropped it early, which is a shame; serioulsy, it took me a while to remember why Garp hurting Luffy is so weird) or infamous Alabasta bar scene. One Piece has as many (for lack of a better word) "in-universe" gags as it has "out-of-universe" ones and it's not always obvious which are which.

    luffy's devil fruit is always on however logia have to turn their power on allowing attacks to pass threw them luffy came behind smoker who had not trained his haki to sense him and ace got surprised to see luffy i guess not really 100% a gag scene.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by KageKageKing View Post
    I don't think Sakazuki would hold back though. Plus, it is unconfirmed they are awakened.
    its highly likely since doflamingo who is weaker than them had a awakened devil fruit and they know about awakened devil fruits since the impel down guards had awakened their fruit so the higher ranked marines would be able to know how to train their devil fruits to awaken them.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Don_Freecs View Post
    Actually, we can simply assume that he was just pretending to do his shichibukai job.


    Doflamingo cut off Crocodile's head during the war, Crocodile doesn't die because he's a logia. Now we know he can use haki ->> what the shichibukai did during the war doesn't mean anything. It means Doflamingo doesn't want to kill Crocodile. Why ? Maybe he likes him i don't know.

    Same for Sakazuki and Aokiji. They could have beat the crap out of their opponent ( according to what they showed during the war ) by awaking their devil fruit. These guys can turn an island into ice for years... the other one can create goddamn volcanoes.......
    Its simple as to why he did not kill him 1.doflamingo hates the world govt/marines 2. doflamingo wanted crocodile to join his crew its hard for him to join when he is dead lol.

  5. #1725

    Default Re: Who is the final villain in One Piece? 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by sanji''s_dad View Post
    luffy's devil fruit is always on however logia have to turn their power on allowing attacks to pass threw them luffy came behind smoker who had not trained his haki to sense him and ace got surprised to see luffy i guess not really 100% a gag scene.
    Dofla is not weaker than they lol.

  6. #1726

    Default Re: Who is the final villain in One Piece? 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowgreed View Post
    Don't take every gag to heart!
    Yes, I'm taking it to heart. Every time someone brings up Mihawk cutting Buggy as a gag I clutch my pearls and fall to my fainting couch.
    Folks who read One Piece... Just better people. \_(ツ)_/

  7. #1727
    Kick-Ass Finalis desa's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who is the final villain in One Piece? 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by RomanceDawn View Post
    Yup, because it had a comedic outcome it was all a gag, just like the Fist of Love, just like flying to outer space with a single balloon, just like Sanji nose bleeding to death.
    Sanji commented on how it was strange for Luffy to be affected.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Don_Freecs View Post
    Actually, we can simply assume that he was just pretending to do his shichibukai job.
    The dude said he was goig seriously while talking to himself. Can we at least acknowledge he wasn't half-assing his job.

    Doflamingo cut off Crocodile's head during the war, Crocodile doesn't die because he's a logia. Now we know he can use haki ->> what the shichibukai did during the war doesn't mean anything. It means Doflamingo doesn't want to kill Crocodile. Why ? Maybe he likes him i don't know.
    He was trying to recruit Croc then he was sent flying with Joz.
    Same for Sakazuki and Aokiji. They could have beat the crap out of their opponent ( according to what they showed during the war ) by awaking their devil fruit. These guys can turn an island into ice for years... the other one can create goddamn volcanoes.......
    Akainu is not going to half-ass his job. He passed from Whithebeard, to kiling Ace to taking on all commanders(with Backup). So no he couldn't just destroy his opponents. Aokij didn't half-ass his job either(which was probably the first time in years).

    Mihawk could cut gigantic iceberg and Moriah broke his giant boat, still failed to kill Luffy.



  8. #1728
    Saemon Havarian Razh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who is the final villain in One Piece? 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by RomanceDawn View Post
    Yup, because it had a comedic outcome it was all a gag, just like the Fist of Love, just like flying to outer space with a single balloon, just like Sanji nose bleeding to death.
    It's not like it was a real battle, either. You shouldn't generalize like that. All I'm saying is, maybe Mihawk didn't use Haki. Ok, maybe with a little more conviction than that, but still. What I mind is the other camp being so resolute about it, even though it comes down to personal interpretation.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Long John Silvers Rayleigh View Post
    But yeah if his fruit didnt protect against haki blades it'd near useless inthe new world
    I wouldn't say that. Give the fruit to someone who is good with Observation and he can detach before he even gets hit. Then use openings with his ranged attacks with fists and knives coated with hardening, or a leg-copter with Hardened knives coming out of his shoes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Outerspec View Post
    Trying to understand Bleach is like trying to drink a bottle of bleach.

    It makes no sense and you'll be dead before you're finished.

  9. #1729
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    Default Re: Who is the final villain in One Piece? 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Razh View Post
    It's not like it was a real battle, either. You shouldn't generalize like that. All I'm saying is, maybe Mihawk didn't use Haki. Ok, maybe with a little more conviction than that, but still. What I mind is the other camp being so resolute about it, even though it comes down to personal interpretation.
    But we saw in Zoro's flashback that Mihawk considers a haki imbued blade essential. Why would he not obey his own teachings?


  10. #1730

    Default Re: Who is the final villain in One Piece? 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Razh View Post
    It's not like it was a real battle, either. You shouldn't generalize like that. All I'm saying is, maybe Mihawk didn't use Haki. Ok, maybe with a little more conviction than that, but still. What I mind is the other camp being so resolute about it, even though it comes down to personal interpretation.
    Does it really? Could you just describe what happened in the pages where they clashed?

    Like just a factual breakdown of what happend, without any add-ons, guesses or opinions.

  11. #1731
    Saemon Havarian Razh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who is the final villain in One Piece? 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Jabra View Post
    But we saw in Zoro's flashback that Mihawk considers a haki imbued blade essential. Why would he not obey his own teachings?
    I don't remember him saying it has to be imbued at all times. And Buggy was unarmed. He certainly didn't have any metal weapon that should have made Mihawk fearful of chipping off the piece of #1 sword in the world. Wouldn't it be an overkill if Mihawk went with Hardening (which had yet to make it's first debut at the time) against flesh alone? Not to mention it would do the same it did to the frozen tsunami to everyone behind Buggy.

    Even later on, when he tried to cut Luffy again, Daz Bones blocked it without getting hurt. Then he was cut. It could mean Haki wasn't on the entire time. Or that Daz Bones could use it up to a point. Doubt it, though.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfwood View Post
    Does it really? Could you just describe what happened in the pages where they clashed?

    Like just a factual breakdown of what happend, without any add-ons, guesses or opinions.
    I thought I covered it in the last dozen posts or so. Must I repeat all that crap again? It's not a complicated scene. Since Haki was just shyly peeking out at that time, there are no discernible signs of someone using it. Mihawk might have been using it the entire time, or just during Buggy slice, or he might not have been using it.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    It's becoming pretty clear neither of sides will budge and I think everything that could have been covered was covered. Last I want to do is keep beating a dead horse until I get banned or something, like some other dudes in the past.

    Better to just agree to disagree.
    Last edited by Razh; May 13th, 2016 at 02:02 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Outerspec View Post
    Trying to understand Bleach is like trying to drink a bottle of bleach.

    It makes no sense and you'll be dead before you're finished.

  12. #1732

    Default Re: Who is the final villain in One Piece? 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Razh View Post
    I thought I covered it in the last dozen posts or so. Must I repeat all that crap again? It's not a complicated scene. Since Haki was just shyly peeking out at that time, there are no discernible signs of someone using it. Mihawk might have been using it the entire time, or just during Buggy slice, or he might not have been using it.
    That's alot of added speculation though. I would say that the barebones of what we know for certain is this, Mihawk throws one slash that slices him in half, and after a small side-bar with Luffy and Buggy follows it up with a flurry of slashes that reduce him to ribbons. There is no signs of this harming Buggy. This is where i'd say that Occam's razor comes in

    It's becoming pretty clear neither of sides will budge and I think everything that could have been covered was covered. Last I want to do is keep beating a dead horse until I get banned or something, like some other dudes in the past.

    Better to just agree to disagree.
    I have no idea why you'd think that this would be a possible outcome of this little chat.

    You guys must have a pretty dim view of AP's moderation staff

  13. #1733
    I do, bro! I do! Shadowgreed's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who is the final villain in One Piece? 2.0

    If it was something more than a Gag shouldn't that be followed by some sort of 'what's going on' bubble from Mihawk thou?


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  14. #1734
    Kick-Ass Finalis desa's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who is the final villain in One Piece? 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfwood View Post
    That's alot of added speculation though. I would say that the barebones of what we know for certain is this, Mihawk throws one slash that slices him in half, and after a small side-bar with Luffy and Buggy follows it up with a flurry of slashes that reduce him to ribbons. There is no signs of this harming Buggy. This is where i'd say that Occam's razor comes in.
    I doubt Occam razor really help there. You either think it's a gag and people are overthinking or it's Oda putting the debate to bed and people trying to hard to justify Mihawk ineffectiveness.

    Both side are using the Occam's razor, just from different brands.



  15. #1735
    I do, bro! I do! Shadowgreed's Avatar
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    Default Who is the final villain in One Piece? 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfwood View Post
    You guys must have a pretty dim view of AP's moderation staff
    Now that you mentioned that, I don't really have that sort of view of you guys but there was this one guy who got banned for posting 'out of the box' theories and till this day I still don't know why that happened.

    This guy had a theory about Big Mama and he specifically focused on the Three Eye girl back then, but is just the past.

    Razh asked about it once too.

  16. #1736

    Default Re: Who is the final villain in One Piece? 2.0

    I think that one assumption we *do* have to make, and its the one place Oda kinda blew it, is that the hardening/attacking haki came out of nowhere.

    Haki itself, king's ambition, Oda had all along, there were tons of little clues along the way, including stuff that was cut in order to pace out chapter 100 but appeared in the novelization of Loguetown, Blackbeard's quote, mantra, retroactively Shank's stare, etc. So Oda had haki in mind in some form all along.

    But the actual attack style? Not so much. Especially since some of the CP9 forms become pointless and excessive training in a world where it exists.

    During the war Oda obviously realized that having it be invisible and people constantly saying "Is that haki!?!" just wasn't going to work, which is when he added the blackening visual after the timeskip.

    Now, its established that King's ambition is super rare. But actual just haki? Its common. All of Amazon Lily has it, every vice admiral has it, and it seems like any semi-competent fighter in the new world has it.

    It's one of the rare cases where Oda dropped the ball a little, and we have to sort of inform our opinion on it a little as a result.

    It's a case where you *have* to make a very basic assumption with it, and just sort of pretend/assume that in the first half of the series, it was invisible because Luffy couldn't see it yet, so we as an audience, basically following the adventure through his lens, couldn't.

    Because in the real world, from an author standpoint, it's just clear that Oda invented that aspect a little late.

    But in-universe? To assume that none of the big timers were using it ever? When its a super standard essential thing? That logias were just going around wholly unchecked? Its silly. Given the ability is heavily used and super common, as an audience we *have* to assume it was being used quite a bit by the strong guys in the first half of the series... (And its kind of insane to think that Croc, Moria, and Kuma didn't have it when Usopp, Tashigi, Bellamy and Coby do. A case might be made for one warlord not knowing for reasons... but Mihawk and Dofla never showed it prior to timeskip, but obviously had it) just without the visual cues. Unless we're to believe it was just discovered immediately prior to the timeskip an everyone in the world started training it, which is just silly.

    So when it makes sense for a character to have been using it (such as Garp's fist of love, or Hancock's or Whitebeard or the admirals's attacks which were explicitly stated to have haki) it HAS to be assumed that haki was being used, even without a visual cue.

    There is zero reason to assume Mihawk, the *greatest swordsman in the world* , who gives explicit instructions to always use haki to protect your blade, would be befuddled by a devil fruit for dozens of attacks before switching to what everyone else has been doing completely automatically. *Especially* when he had just said to himself, he was going to test Luffy with everything he had. (Same as the whitebeard attack.) There's no evidence that he *didn't* try his best, and plenty of context and reason, including his own words, to say he did.
    Last edited by Robby; May 13th, 2016 at 05:21 PM.
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  17. #1737

    Default Re: Who is the final villain in One Piece? 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by desa View Post
    I doubt Occam razor really help there. You either think it's a gag and people are overthinking or it's Oda putting the debate to bed and people trying to hard to justify Mihawk ineffectiveness.

    Both side are using the Occam's razor, just from different brands.
    Personally i'd say that taking the stance that it's a throw-away joke and hence holds no intent or meaning beyond laughs involves one more assumption than to simply take what is being presented for what it is being presented as.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowgreed View Post
    Now that you mentioned that, I don't really have that sort of view of you guys but there was this one guy who got banned for posting 'out of the box' theories and till this day I still don't know why that happened.

    This guy had a theory about Big Mama and he specifically focused on the Three Eye girl back then, but is just the past.

    Razh asked about it once too.
    Can't say that it rings a bell. But then again i haven't really been paying attention lately.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post
    So when it makes sense for a character to have been using it (such as Garp's fist of love, or Hancock's or Whitebeard or the admirals's attacks which were explicitly stated to have haki) it HAS to be assumed that haki was being used, even without a visual cue.
    http://mangafox.me/manga/one_piece/v53/c516/6.html

    http://mangafox.me/manga/one_piece/v53/c516/7.html

    Or the Kuja's perfectly normal looking arrows.

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    Does anybody else feel a little uncomfortable whenever Greg browses a thread?

    It's like having your teacher looking over your shoulder when your taking a math test

  18. #1738
    Kick-Ass Finalis desa's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who is the final villain in One Piece? 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfwood View Post
    Personally i'd say that taking the stance that it's a throw-away joke and hence holds no intent or meaning beyond laughs involves one more assumption than to simply take what is being presented for what it is being presented as.
    That makes you a case 2.

    Other side could say that you think the scene have other intent other than laughs is you reading to much into it. You don't try to find the meaning of Nami beating Luffy to a messy pulp, you laugh and move on.

    Occam razor isn't really a good tool in that argument because both parties think the other side is overthinking it.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfwood View Post
    Does anybody else feel a little uncomfortable whenever Greg browses a thread?

    It's like having your teacher looking over your shoulder when your taking a math test
    He's probably wondering why those silly kids still can't understand something so obvious.



  19. #1739

    Default Re: Who is the final villain in One Piece? 2.0

    Did anyone mention this: Mihawk saw what Buggy had been doing with the cameras, and knew the marines were focusing on him. So Mihawk cut him a bunch of times, to elevate Buggy's stature and also propose his Shichibukai status to the government, effectively planting a ticking BUGGY BOMB in whatever future arc.

    This is a spoiler from Hunter x Hunter: Election Arc

    Spoiler:
    Kinda like Ging let Leorio punch him to add some salsa on that fuego.

  20. #1740

    Default Re: Who is the final villain in One Piece? 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by desa View Post
    That makes you a case 2.

    Other side could say that you think the scene have other intent other than laughs is you reading to much into it. You don't try to find the meaning of Nami beating Luffy to a messy pulp, you laugh and move on.

    Occam razor isn't really a good tool in that argument because both parties think the other side is overthinking it.
    Would you say that they are equal assumptions even when we know that Oda has a well-documented habit of coming back to aspects of the story previously thought to be gags?

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