View Poll Results: Who is The Big Bad Wolf?

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669. You may not vote on this poll
  • Marshall D. Teach "Blackbeard"

    431 64.42%
  • Sakazuki "Akainu"

    39 5.83%
  • The Gorosei

    93 13.90%
  • Shanks "Red Hair

    15 2.24%
  • Charlotte LinLin "Big Mom"

    3 0.45%
  • Kaidou "The man of a thousand beasts"

    3 0.45%
  • Kong

    2 0.30%
  • Dragon

    7 1.05%
  • Seventh Shichibukai

    2 0.30%
  • Other

    74 11.06%
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Thread: Who is the final villain in One Piece? 2.0

  1. #1321

    Default Re: Who is the final villain in One Piece? 2.0

    When the time for Luffy's battle with Teech comes, the fight won't be against Teech only, it'll be against the 'Blackbeard pirates'. While the Blackbeard pirates have been depicted as the most dangerous 'pirates' on the seas for a while, they still don't hold a candle to the power of the world government. Let's just recall what happened in the past: the world government overthrew the ancient kingdom and has reigned supreme over the world for 800 years. And let's not forget how things in One Piece have been introduced to us: the marines hunt down pirates, and the latter flees from the forces of either the world government or the celestial dragons (after all, their forefathers, the creators, are the ones who created the world government to begin with). A recent example of this is the Bleackbeard pirates and the CP0. So, as you can see, guys, the most dangerous and most powerful villain that there is in One Piece is not Teech but the WG. So, it only stands to reason for the wg to be the final villain.

    In the past week's chapter, we saw that Teech succeeded in attacking the revolutionaries' HQ both to retrieve Burgess and get his hands on the profusion of weapons that the revos acquired from Dressrosa.

    Those weapons will certainly increase the revolutionaries' chances of success in their battle against the world government. So, if Teech succeeded in taking possession of those weapons, it only makes sense for those weapons to be retrieved from Teech 'before' the beginning or the conclusion of the final war(= the war against the world government). Retrieving them cannot happen without Teech's defeat, and the most suitable candidate for that fight is Luffy. Therefore, Teech must fall at Luffy's hands before either the beginning or the conclusion of the final war. This will make the world government the final villain.

  2. #1322

    Default Re: Who is the final villain in One Piece? 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Australopithecus View Post
    When the time for Luffy's battle with Teech comes, the fight won't be against Teech only, it'll be against the 'Blackbeard pirates'. While the Blackbeard pirates have been depicted as the most dangerous 'pirates' on the seas for a while, they still don't hold a candle to the power of the world government.
    Let's just recall what happened in the past: the world government overthrew the ancient kingdom and has reigned supreme over the world for 800 years.
    Couple really obvious flaws in saying this.

    1. They're a Yonkou crew, so by nature they are heavyweights that contend with the World Government on some level. Hell even before the timeskip Blackbeard was wrecking pretty decent havoc against the Marines at Marineford. And being depicted as much more sinister than the Marines as a whole. Foreshadowing is maybe not something you pick up on huh.
    2. You say this like the World Government as a whole system would be the enemies of the Strawhats as the final villain. Which is obviously untrue given the whole Marine civil war plot line Oda's been building since forever. The Marines in the final period are pretty obviously going to burst down the middle in some fashion with people like Smoker, Coby, and formers like Aokiji on one side. And people like Akainu, Onigumo and government agents like Spandam on the other. Unless you think none of that endlessly developing plotline populated by dozens of characters is headed anywhere in particular? Which would be a bravely terrible thing to suggest. Also throw in the Revolutionaries as counterweights to the government as well. And even the Blackbeard crew itself since this final conflict would look pretty three-sided for awhile I imagine.
    Also all the Strawhat allies like Alabasta and whatnot.
    3. The very nature of saying "the world government" shows how weak a suggestion it is. That's an insanely vague unwieldly thing to say, the WG is huge and like I said multi-factioned. That's actually an argument against such a suggestion because it shows how unspecific it ultimately is. As opposed to the extremely organized 11 main heads of the Blackbeard crew.
    And let's not forget how things in One Piece have been introduced to us: the marines hunt down pirates,


    How about YOU don't forget how things were introduced to us lol.
    The Marines hunt down pirates, but there are nasty authoritarian Marines, and there are good Marines that genuinely want to help people. And those good Marines really don't have an actual conflict with pirates like Luffy even though current laws dictate they have to. And those Marines may even salute pirates. And stand up to the nasty Marines when they feel what's being done is not really justice.
    A recent example of this is the Bleackbeard pirates and the CP0. So, as you can see, guys, the most dangerous and most powerful villain that there is in One Piece is not Teech but the WG. So, it only stands to reason for the wg to be the final villain.


    Oda has been pretty deliberately depicting Blackbeard as a lurking growing threat that people keep underestimating, even more or less having Shanks be the one of all people to warn Whitebeard and us the readers of this fact.
    What looks more like a final villain anyway?
    The established multi-faceted sometimes good, sometimes bad organization around since the start?
    Or the very clearly dangerous unexpected growing threat that keeps getting bigger.
    Those weapons will certainly increase the revolutionaries' chances of success in their battle against the world government. So, if Teech succeeded in taking possession of those weapons, it only makes sense for those weapons to be retrieved from Teech 'before' the beginning or the conclusion of the final war (= the war against the world government). Retrieving them cannot happen without Teech's defeat, and the most suitable candidate for that fight is Luffy. Therefore, Teech must fall at Luffy's hands before either the beginning or the conclusion of the final war. This will make the world government the final villain.
    Oh wow this is really bad dude.
    You're saying the role Blackbeard will fill is a plot device to delay the revolutionary attack on the WG.
    A character Oda has been carefully deliberately building up bit by bit since Volume 15.
    A character who btw has been characterized as a constantly building thread, constantly getting his hands on more assets and power (like a stockpile of weapons).

  3. #1323
    21st Century Schizoid Man Johnny B. Decent's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who is the final villain in One Piece? 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey King View Post
    I'm conflicted on that.

    It seems like it should be Luffy, but how many big bads will Oda allow him to take out near the end???

    Likewise part of me thinks Sabo is the most likely, which would also fulfill the Ace avenging that Luffy wants.

    And then part of me thinks because of the Marine Civil War that will eventually happened that Akainu will be taken out by....Smoker...Aokiji......Coby?? Someone.


    All and all though, I'd say Sabo has the highest odds favoring him. Him having Ace's fruit is another heavy thing in his favor.

    I'm kind of leaning towards Sabo, as I have a hunch that Sakazuki's final fate is to be either executed or imprisoned for life for his crimes, so being captured by the Revs who in turn will re-structure the WG and hold a trial for him is pretty likely.

    Plus, that whole avenging his brother thing.

  4. #1324

    Default Re: Who is the final villain in One Piece? 2.0

    It could always be Luffy and Sabo working together to take out Akainu.

  5. #1325

    Default Re: Who is the final villain in One Piece? 2.0

    Luffy's already proven he's more than happy to leave something important like getting Ace's fruit in Sabo's hands, he'd be fine in passing off the "must get revenge" thing.

    If he even cared about revenge. Which he doesn't.

    He hates Aikanu sure, and will punch him in the face if he sees him, but he's hardly been moaning about Itachi's death and how he must be avenged at all costs and nothing else but that matters. It's not a personal goal or something he needs or is sworn to do, it can go to someone else.

    And yeah, Sabo makes a lot of sense, especially given AIkanu's "my fruit is just stronger than yours" bit. No idea who will deal with Kizaru though.
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  6. #1326
    I Like Video Game Music hosemisnuba's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who is the final villain in One Piece? 2.0

    One Piece is a pirate manga and the FV not being a pirate, sounds, well, just plain wrong.

  7. #1327

    Default Re: Who is the final villain in One Piece? 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post
    Luffy's already proven he's more than happy to leave something important like getting Ace's fruit in Sabo's hands, he'd be fine in passing off the "must get revenge" thing.

    If he even cared about revenge. Which he doesn't.

    He hates Aikanu sure, and will punch him in the face if he sees him, but he's hardly been moaning about Itachi's death and how he must be avenged at all costs and nothing else but that matters. It's not a personal goal or something he needs or is sworn to do, it can go to someone else.

    And yeah, Sabo makes a lot of sense, especially given AIkanu's "my fruit is just stronger than yours" bit. No idea who will deal with Kizaru though.
    Im curious and this goes for Monkey King too...

    Would you guys want to see sabo reveal that fire isnt actually a weakness and that there's another fire that isnt affected by lava or he still has the weakness but works around it by using haki and flames like smoker did on PH. Having 1 turn out true doesnt preclude 2 but Im curious if you guys are alright with the idea or see it as cliche or anything,
    Chapter 437 Discussion after franky decides to join the Strawhats:
    So who think Usopp is inside that duffelbag?
    H x H Chimera Ant Arc / OP Manga Spoiler
    Spoiler:



  8. #1328

    Default Re: Who is the final villain in One Piece? 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Long John Silvers Rayleigh View Post
    Would you guys want to see sabo reveal that fire isnt actually a weakness and that there's another fire that isnt affected by lava
    I know it wasn't directed at me, but it sounds like something Hiro Mashima would do, and I hope Oda doesn't go there. He established that some fruits outclass others, him going back on it would just be terrible.

  9. #1329

    Default Re: Who is the final villain in One Piece? 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Long John Silvers Rayleigh View Post
    Im curious and this goes for Monkey King too...

    Would you guys want to see sabo reveal that fire isnt actually a weakness and that there's another fire that isnt affected by lava or he still has the weakness but works around it by using haki and flames like smoker did on PH. Having 1 turn out true doesnt preclude 2 but Im curious if you guys are alright with the idea or see it as cliche or anything,
    Nah, it makes sense that magma is better than fire. Same way Aokiji's ice is better than Monet's Snow, or we've had two strengths of weight fruit now. That aspect is fine.

    If its Sabo winning, it should just benot from brute strength of the fruit but haki (showing he has the stronger more pure ambition) and teamwork and ideals and all the shonen-ness. Actually fighting and not being a total hothead idiot would probably help.
    Last edited by Robby; May 2nd, 2016 at 07:50 PM.
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  10. #1330

    Default Re: Who is the final villain in One Piece? 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey King View Post
    Couple really obvious flaws in saying this.
    Let us let the arguments speak for themselves, ok? ;)
    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey King View Post
    1. They're a Yonkou crew, so by nature they are heavyweights that contend with the World Government on some level.
    When Garp introduced the four emperors to us, he said that the marines and the seven warlords, two of the three great powers, exist to counterbalance the four emperors.
    Spoiler:


    After Doflamingo's defeat, we learned that the marines are just the 'public face' of the world government.
    Spoiler:


    In other words, the World Government's power extends far beyond that. And since only the public face of the government along with the seven warlords counterbalance all of the four emperors, then it stands to reason to say that the Blackbeard pirates do not hold a candle to the entire power of the Government, because the Blackbeard pirates represent only 1/4 of the entire power that is counterbalanced by only a fraction of the entire power of the government.
    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey King View Post
    Hell even before the timeskip Blackbeard was wrecking pretty decent havoc against the Marines at Marineford. And being depicted as much more sinister than the Marines as a whole. Foreshadowing is maybe not something you pick up on huh.
    But Blackbeard was battling against Sengoku and Garp only.
    Spoiler:


    Those two do not comprise the marines as a whole. Saying that they do would require leaving out legions of other strong characters that truly form the marines as a whole: the three admirals, the entire set of vice admirals minus Garp, the rear admirals, the commodores, etc. If Blackbeard had been clashing against all of these people, I would have agreed with your assertion, but the marine admirals, vice admirals, etc were focused on Luffy's escape and the Whitebeard pirates.
    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey King View Post
    2. You say this like the World Government as a whole system would be the enemies of the Strawhats as the final villain.
    The enemy of the SHs, the revolutionaries, and Luffy's allies that he will have acquired in his journey through his ability of turning those around him into his allies.
    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey King View Post
    You say this like the World Government as a whole system would be the enemies of the Strawhats as the final villain. Which is obviously untrue given the whole Marine civil war plot line Oda's been building since forever.The Marines in the final period are pretty obviously going to burst down the middle in some fashion with people like Smoker, Coby, and formers like Aokiji on one side. And people like Akainu, Onigumo and government agents like Spandam on the other
    So the idea that the WG will be the final villain is untrue because Oda has been building a marine civil war plot line, huh. And this impending civil war is indicated by what exactly? Smoker, Fujitora, Coby, & Aokiji's disapproval of some of the methods implemented by the world government? How does this (if it is this) guarantee the happening of this civil war?

    Let's suppose this marine civil war will truly happen, are Coby, Smoker, Aokiji, and even Fujitora an adequate military power to win that war? They are at best two admirals, one vice admiral, & god-knows-what military rank Coby has now (but I am sure as heck it isn't an admiral rank YET) against two admirals (Green Bull and Kizaru), a fleet admiral (Akainu), possibly a former fleet admiral (Sengoku), dozens of vice admirals, rear admirals, commodores etc. That looks like a lost battle.

    Let's just say they somehow won that civil war despite their very low chances of victory against the other powerful individuals (some of whom are of the same level and others of an even higher one), how would their victory not make the government the final antagonist?
    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey King View Post
    Unless you think none of that endlessly developing plotline populated by dozens of characters is headed anywhere in particular? Which would be a bravely terrible thing to suggest.
    It's headed somewhere alright, but its destination does not necessarily have to be a civil war, unless you prove otherwise.
    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey King View Post
    3. The very nature of saying "the world government" shows how weak a suggestion it is.
    No, it doesn't. My suggestion just stands there being wrongfully accused of being weak because of the simple fact that it was advanced as a suggestion. That's a circular reasoning.
    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey King View Post
    That's an insanely vague unwieldly thing to say, the WG is huge and like I said multi-factioned. That's actually an argument against such a suggestion because it shows how unspecific it ultimately is. As opposed to the extremely organized 11 main heads of the Blackbeard crew.
    It is true that the World Government is, for now, unspecific, but it will have to boil down to some main fighters that represent the pillars of that organization. Kong should be one of them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey King View Post
    Oda has been pretty deliberately depicting Blackbeard as a lurking growing threat that people keep underestimating, even more or less having Shanks be the one of all people to warn Whitebeard and us the readers of this fact.
    What looks more like a final villain anyway? The established multi-faceted sometimes good, sometimes bad organization around since the start?
    Or the very clearly dangerous unexpected growing threat that keeps getting bigger.
    The WG. It is a more dangerous & more powerful threat than the Blackbeard pirates. It has exited and will continue to exist reigning supreme until something is done about it. Blackbeard, on the other hand, is just an ephemeral existence that will disappear over time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey King View Post
    Oh wow this is really bad dude.
    You're saying the role Blackbeard will fill is a plot device to delay the revolutionary attack on the WG.
    No. I said that Luffy should make possible the retrieval of the weapons by defeating Teech before the beginning or the 'conclusion' of the final war.
    Spoiler:
    Quote Originally Posted by Australopithecus View Post
    Those weapons will certainly increase the revolutionaries' chances of success in their battle against the world government. So, if Teech succeeded in taking possession of those weapons, it only makes sense for those weapons to be retrieved from Teech 'before' the beginning or the conclusion of the final war(= the war against the world government).

    In other words, the war could start while Luffy and Teach are duking it out. So as you can see, the retrieval of the weapons before the conclusion of the war won't make the role that Teech will fill a plot device to delay the revolutionaries' attack on the WG.
    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey King View Post
    A character Oda has been carefully deliberately building up bit by bit since Volume 15.
    A character who btw has been characterized as a constantly building thread, constantly getting his hands on more assets and power (like a stockpile of weapons).
    Agreed, but that doesn't guarantee that he'll be the final antagonist. He is likely to be the final pirate antagonist, and that's that.

  11. #1331
    Discovered Stowaway HacheBe's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who is the final villain in One Piece? 2.0

    Personally I think there are two main plots.

    One Piece and then the WG

    BB is the only one in contention for the One Piece IMO unless the Navy tries to get involved. As the final goal of the series is One Piece and probs the battle to get there BB has a strong chance to be the final villain

    The only thing for me is why would Oda have set the SH in the middle of the whole 'what is justice' thing set it motion by Smoker, Fuji and Coby and not have them participate in the actual overthrow of the Government. For me it does't make sense to me to have the 'Great War' that overthrows the WG to be before the SH reach the One Piece. Also I don't see anyone overthrowing the Government until the true history is revealed which we know is on Raftel. So this makes it seem like those events will happen 1 after the other.

    Essentially what I am saying is the WG as a whole will be the final villain with half the Navy/Countries on SH side and the other half on Akainu's/WG side. But once the people know the true history then they will want to overthrow the WG or something. I just don't see the WG going down and THEN the SH fighting the BB pirates

  12. #1332

    Default Re: Who is the final villain in One Piece? 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Australopithecus View Post
    When Garp introduced the four emperors to us, he said that the marines and the seven warlords, two of the three great powers, exist to counterbalance the four emperors.
    What aspect of your argument does this help?

    After Doflamingo's defeat, we learn that the marines are just the 'public face' of the world government.
    I like you added a "just" in there and made it sound like some conspiracy theory bullshit it isn't. The Marines are the most visible public form of the World Government. Duh. Throughout the series you see lots of Marines. Average people see Marines. The highest levels are sitting way up in Mariejois and a few other islands like Enies Lobby, and the CP organizations are secretive to begin with. We didn't "learn" this after Doflamingo's defeat. It was always known.
    A world spanning army is visible, and the ruling cliques that sit above it are not visible. Fucking duh.
    The Gorosei are emphasizing it to put Akainu in his place. The whole conversation is about how they're not particularly concerned that Akainu feels disrespected by not being informed about it.
    In other words, the World Government's power extends far beyond that.


    No. Absolutely nothing about that sentence suggests a single thing about proportion. Absolutely nothing about the entire CONVERSATION suggests a single thing about proportion.

    It's a conversation about public relations and rank. Akainu is angry that the false news report went above his head, the Gorosei don't care because he's a Marine and stuff like the false news story was a choice made in Mariejois. Akainu then goes on to angrily question and taunt them about whether the World Nobles did it without their knowledge/control through CP0.

    And since only the public face of the government along with the seven warlords counterbalance all of the four emperors, then it stands to reason to say that the Blackbeard pirates do not hold a candle to the entire power of the Government,


    They counterbalance the Yonkou because they're actually forces on the field. In the sea. You have the Marines and Shichibukai as pieces keeping balance against the Yonkou.
    And the WG are the ones who control and direct the Marines (the Marines are literally the army of the WG lol). And they're the ones who make alliances with strong pirates to maintain the Shichibukai ranks. There's also agents and things like that sure, but that would be pedantic to mention alongside the main things.
    I still don't have a single fucking clue how you read a phrase like "public face" and imagine an entire fantasy mega army the WG have somewhere or whatever.
    It's a phrase you hear all the time irl. It has absolutely no suggestion of fighting power or proportion or anything like that.
    There's a part of the WG that people see all the time, and there's a part they don't.

    But Blackbeard was battling against Sengoku and Garp only.
    In a three way struggle? You mean like...other strong Marines were fighting other people? Hmm. Why yes I believe that was the case.
    Also it was before the timeskip lol.

    The enemy of the SHs, the revolutionaries, and Luffy's allies that he will have acquired in his journey through his ability of turning those around him into his allies.
    Why yes! Again look at that. Lots of different people who are not the Strawhat crew will be involved in the final battles.
    So the idea that the WG will be the final villain is untrue because Oda has been building a marine civil war plot line, huh. And this impending civil war is indicated by what exactly? Smoker, Fujitora, Coby, & Aokiji's disapproval of some of the methods implemented by the world government? How does this (if it is this) guarantee the happening of this civil war?
    You're fucking kidding right? ahaahahaha
    Hollllly shit.
    Let's suppose this marine civil war will truly happen, are Coby, Smoker, Aokiji, and even Fujitora an adequate military power to win that war? They are at best two admirals, one vice admiral, & god-knows-what military rank Coby has now (but I am sure as heck it isn't an admiral rank YET) against two admirals (Green Bull and Kizaru), a fleet admiral (Akainu), possibly a former fleet admiral (Sengoku), dozens of vice admirals, rear admirals, commodores etc. That looks like a lost battle.
    I love how you randomly put the average officers all on the Akainu side for absolutely no reason whatsoever. And also arbitrarily decided what the very ambivalent Sengoku would be on the Akainu side.
    I mean I guess I shouldn't expect better of someone who hasn't been following a consistently tense plot line started in volume goddamned one, but still.
    Also why would this Marine Civil War happened in a vacuum?? We're talking about the final events of the series.
    The WG would be also fighting Revolutionaries and Strawhat allies and the Blackbeards and all sorts of things.
    Let's just say they somehow won that civil war despite their very low chances of victory against the other powerful individuals (some of whom are of the same level and others of an even higher one), how would their victory not make the government the final antagonist?
    Again I know you're not packing in reading comprehension, but everything I'm saying is in the contest of a final conflict involving lots of people.
    The Marine Civil War would be happening as the WG leadership itself is involved as well.
    Also yeah the WG kind of needs it's army to function, and if forces like Aokiji and company win that's not good for the current rulers.
    And fuck no I'm not talking about this in the context of your insane bullshit about the Marines being tiny meaningless puppets to some massive WG shadow army lollll.

    It's headed somewhere alright, but its destination does not necessarily have to be a civil war, unless you prove otherwise.
    How the fuck you can you simultaneously believe that the WG is THE final villain that our heroes are going to take down. AND not think such a conflict will be necessity involve the friendly relations and connections steadily fostered with the army of that WG.
    What the hell happens with all that plot line in your idea? Don't get all incredulous about my suggestion when you've completely ignored that entire plot line when it stands heavily unaccounted for in your vision.

    No, it doesn't. My suggestion just stands there being wrongfully accused of being weak because of the simple fact that it was advanced as a suggestion. That's a circular reasoning.
    You can't use logical fallacies when you can't read lol. You routinely wildly misinterpret dialogue all over the place, and here you are completely incapable of even reading a basic sentence. You seriously think I'm saying it's wrong because literally you said it? What?? Who the fuck does that?

    It is true that the World Government is, for now, unspecific, but it will have to boil down to some main fighters that represent the pillars of that organization. Kong should be one of them.
    For now being Volume 82. This is an insanely weak argument and exactly my point of that statement.
    This deep in the series and all you can say is "eventually maybe Oda will build up the final adversaries for the main cast, like maybe this guy we saw once".
    The Blackbeard crew has been built up since Volume 15, with Oda hinting at some direct match ups along the way. Even now we stand at Oda's statement of soccer team size (11) Strawhats and he mentions the Blackbeard crew at eleven main members.
    A process of characterization ongoing for nearly seventy volumes thus far.
    This, this is why just saying World Government proves the weakness.
    Because that's really all you can say. Whereas with the BB crew we can even see match ups man to man.
    The WG. It is a more dangerous & more powerful threat than the Blackbeard pirates.


    I don't mean literally at the moment. Learn to read, it will help you make theories.
    The WG for starters is not a single focused element. Another point you keep ignoring. Your awkward skirting around the matter of internal tensions in the Marines doesn't change that it's one the longest running plot lines in the series. One that already even happened in miniature with Aokiji vs Akainu. And thanks for posting a panel from the tensions between Akainu and the Gorosei.
    In a chaotic final war where it starts to crumble form within and from without, nothing about that means it is the final final villain.

    And of course your response shows you as absolutely illiterate to what I was talking about. I was talking characterization, foreshadowing. Literary techniques.
    And you blankly and robotically respond with a comment about raw power at current. WHOOSH.
    It has exited and will continue to exist reigning supreme until something is done about it. Blackbeard, on the other hand, is just an ephemeral existence that will disappear over time.

    No. I said that Luffy should make possible the retrieval of the weapons by defeating Teech before the beginning or the 'conclusion' of the final war.
    Yup. That's exactly what I just accused you of saying.
    The end result of the Teach rivalry just comes down to that for some reason. Wonder why Oda has been building them up so much this whole time? Real mystery.
    In other words, the war could start while Luffy and Teach are duking it out. So as you can see, the retrieval of the weapons before the conclusion of the war won't make the role that Teech will fill a plot device to delay the revolutionaries' attack on the WG.
    Oh ok so it delays them winning or gaining the upper hand. That's functionally the exact same goddamn thing lol.
    The Blackbeard's end up just a plot device to delay some level of escalation of the final battle for the Revolutionaries. Pissing away what will at that point be decades of building them up as super villains.

    The insane weakness of your arguments comes down both to the aforementioned complete inability to read sentences like a normal human being, and also from really badly explaining away plot elements that don't support your conclusion.
    1. You've basically just ignored how the huge lengthy "True Justice vs Absolute Justice" plotline figures into a war against the WG.
    2. And the Blackbeard's exist for Luffy to fight I guess for some reason not really tied into the final battles (you haven't provided any place for them in all this), so that weapons can reach revolutionaries and effect the final battle. So it's not even really about the Blackbeards is it, it's about some stupid weapons we only just found out about lol.

    In both cases you seem utterly indifferent to how incredibly long Oda has been working on these two plot lines. Or you're experiencing incredible discomfort with them. Either way you can use every logic fallacy in the book and look like a sharp logical man, but you're horribly bad at actually examining evidence on the table.
    Two huge plotlines since the earliest periods of the series? Eh, whatever.
    A line you read in one speech balloon in some clearly unintended way? HEY EVERYONE WHO WANTS TO HEAR ABOUT HOW THE MARINES ARE ACTUALLY IRRELEVANT AND THERE'S WAY MORE STRONG WG GUYS SOMEWHERE.

    Come the hell on.

    Agreed, but that doesn't guarantee that he'll be the final antagonist. He is likely to be the final pirate antagonist, and that's that.


    Which is a meaningless role that sounds like it's right outta the pre Robin days in some ways.
    Hey here's the secret you sorts who suggest this "role" for the Blackbeards seem unawares of.
    But uh....pirates are not a separate category of thing or topic from the big macro-plot with secret civilizations and governments on mountains. It's all the same plot.
    There isn't some separate "Pirate Plot" going on which needs it's own villain for some reason. The pirate plot is intertwined entirely with the larger plot. The quest for the One Piece is the same quest for the True History.
    Hell even you are treating it like a worthless meaningless role, with your "that's that" lol.
    Like you know you just awkwardly placed Blackbeard in the plot mailroom and are glad to be rid of this huge plotline Oda's worked so much on, because gosh it was just so inconvenient to the plot you have in your head.


    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by HacheBe View Post
    Personally I think there are two main plots.

    One Piece and then the WG
    Yeah no. Just got done pointing out how this is incredibly untrue, and seems like a really bizarre bit of thinking left over from earlier chapters.
    Like some people are still in the mindset of One Piece as simple pirate adventure, but naturally have to also accept the ancient secrets and government plot existing.
    So they just...segregate them mentally.
    But they aren't segregated.
    BB is the only one in contention for the One Piece IMO unless the Navy tries to get involved. As the final goal of the series is One Piece and probs the battle to get there BB has a strong chance to be the final villain
    Which doesn't make any sense at all given the sinister mysterious quality Oda characterizes the crew and man himself with.
    The role you're talking about doesn't have greater meaning or context. It's a simple pirate battle, part of the simple plot. Before the complex and secret filled one gets going.
    Except Blackbeard isn't some random meathead, he's a weird dude with a D in his name who can eat two fruits and lurks behind the horizon of the plot at many points.
    The only thing for me is why would Oda have set the SH in the middle of the whole 'what is justice' thing set it motion by Smoker, Fuji and Coby and not have them participate in the actual overthrow of the Government. For me it does't make sense to me to have the 'Great War' that overthrows the WG to be before the SH reach the One Piece.
    I don't think a single person has ever suggested that the great war happens before reaching Raftel. Whitebeard himself pretty much confirmed that it won't happened that way to begin with.
    Essentially what I am saying is the WG as a whole will be the final villain with half the Navy/Countries on SH side and the other half on Akainu's/WG side. But once the people know the true history then they will want to overthrow the WG or something. I just don't see the WG going down and THEN the SH fighting the BB pirates
    And this relies on the flawed logic that sees the secrets of the true history as being black and white, about how the government took puppies and rainbows and locked them away and destroyed Santa Claus in the process.
    When not only does that ignore ways Oda's approached it, but also ignored the very real knowledge we have of dangerous super weapons being part of what is hidden away in that knowledge.
    A more complex conflict than that means the government in of itself isn't the end all be all.
    And hell look at a few things.
    Three weapons. Three. A final war where three weapons will no doubt be unearthed. And you think there could only be two sides?
    And we already had a preview of the war, with the final one suggested as being like that except waaaaay bigger in scale. And what happened there?
    Three way conflict with Luffy and allies on one side, government troops on another, and then the Blackbeards.
    You think the Marineford battle wasn't foreshadowing anything?

  13. #1333
    Discovered Stowaway HacheBe's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who is the final villain in One Piece? 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey King View Post

    Yeah no. Just got done pointing out how this is incredibly untrue, and seems like a really bizarre bit of thinking left over from earlier chapters.
    Like some people are still in the mindset of One Piece as simple pirate adventure, but naturally have to also accept the ancient secrets and government plot existing.
    So they just...segregate them mentally.
    But they aren't segregated.


    Which doesn't make any sense at all given the sinister mysterious quality Oda characterizes the crew and man himself with.
    The role you're talking about doesn't have greater meaning or context. It's a simple pirate battle, part of the simple plot. Before the complex and secret filled one gets going.
    Except Blackbeard isn't some random meathead, he's a weird dude with a D in his name who can eat two fruits and lurks behind the horizon of the plot at many points.


    I don't think a single person has ever suggested that the great war happens before reaching Raftel. Whitebeard himself pretty much confirmed that it won't happened that way to begin with.


    And this relies on the flawed logic that sees the secrets of the true history as being black and white, about how the government took puppies and rainbows and locked them away and destroyed Santa Claus in the process.
    When not only does that ignore ways Oda's approached it, but also ignored the very real knowledge we have of dangerous super weapons being part of what is hidden away in that knowledge.
    A more complex conflict than that means the government in of itself isn't the end all be all.
    And hell look at a few things.
    Three weapons. Three. A final war where three weapons will no doubt be unearthed. And you think there could only be two sides?
    And we already had a preview of the war, with the final one suggested as being like that except waaaaay bigger in scale. And what happened there?
    Three way conflict with Luffy and allies on one side, government troops on another, and then the Blackbeards.
    You think the Marineford battle wasn't foreshadowing anything?
    So in the case you are presenting the WG AND the BB pirates are the final villains of One Piece then? Or am i misunderstanding what you are saying?

    That makes a lot more sense actually... I think just the fact that BB and the WG are enemies makes me want to separate the two from each other. So would you say this battle would take place on Raftel or somewhere else? The victor claiming the One Piece? is the WG just trying to stop the True history being revealed?

    One thing I don't know if I can agree with you on is the fact that I don't think the SH and or BB pirates defeating the Navy or even the Gorsei would make the WG topple. I think that that has to start up at the World Nobles so i feel like while one may cause the other they aren't the same thing.... So in the case all 3 of them fight how would the WG get taken over?

    Also sry I honestly didn't really want to read the huge long posts you have been participating in. I figured I could get a quick answer like I did from you. I know that might piss you off but really wasn't into seeing all that. Sry for all the stupid questions

  14. #1334
    I Like Video Game Music hosemisnuba's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who is the final villain in One Piece? 2.0

    The primary reason most anti-"Blackbeard as final villain" dissenters exist is that they don't like Teach: he isn't overtly threatening, looks like an idiot nearly all the time, and somehow, through seemingly impossible circumstances, he comes out on top. In other words, people don't like the idea of Luffy being the final villain. Guys, just because he isn't Akainu or Lucci doesn't mean he isn't the only individual fv candidate that makes any sense.

  15. #1335

    Default Re: Who is the final villain in One Piece? 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by HacheBe View Post
    So in the case you are presenting the WG AND the BB pirates are the final villains of One Piece then? Or am i misunderstanding what you are saying?
    The final war will have multiple factions. The WG and Blackbeard will be two different factions. During the events of the war the WG will be destroyed, probably by a mixture of various good guy forces, Blackbeard and company, and perhaps even partly as some have suggested a sort of coup attempt by Akainu (who then gets taken down later himself anyway).
    But the final battle of the whole last war would come down to the Strawhats versus the Blackbeards.
    That makes a lot more sense actually... I think just the fact that BB and the WG are enemies makes me want to separate the two from each other.


    You should. They are enemies. And they will be enemies during the final war as well. Just as in Marineford it will be (at least) a three way conflict.
    So would you say this battle would take place on Raftel or somewhere else?
    For starters I never said "battle".
    There's absolutely no way with all that Oda's setting up in terms of scale that this will be on battle and event. It will be a war, a real one rather the way we all constantly misuse the term when talking about Marineford.
    And no, Raftel and what is discovered there will be the point that turns the story into the finale events. Of which the war will be part.

    The victor claiming the One Piece? is the WG just trying to stop the True history being revealed?
    Well...we know they don't want the true history revealed as well as other aspects of the lost century (the weapons).
    One thing I don't know if I can agree with you on is the fact that I don't think the SH and or BB pirates defeating the Navy or even the Gorsei would make the WG topple. I think that that has to start up at the World Nobles so i feel like while one may cause the other they aren't the same thing.


    If it's at the point that even the Gorosei have fallen what power do the Nobles have? We've already seen that most of their power really IS the existence of the Marines. That they can do as they please because if you do something to harm them an admiral comes and fucks you up. Aside from that they have CP0, and probably some tough guardians in Mariejois too. But most of their power and influence is because they sit atop the world spanning military. As is true when talking about any WG officials including the Gorosei. In fact it really doesn't make sense talking about the Dragons as separate from the WG officials in Mariejois. Collectively all those people are the WG elite.

    ... So in the case all 3 of them fight how would the WG get taken over?
    All three of what? Really the WG isn't honestly a separate category at all from the Marines, which is how it sounds like you're talking.
    The Marines are the military of the WG. The WG also has secret service people and various other little operations (Impel Down for example). But it's all part of the same enterprise.
    If you're talking about three factions? We're talking Strawhat people, Blackbeard people, and WG (which is likely to fracture in all sorts of ways).
    And with three weapons of apparently apocalyptic power that should reduce numbers as mattering down somewhat.

    Also sry I honestly didn't really want to read the huge long posts you have been participating in. I figured I could get a quick answer like I did from you. I know that might piss you off but really wasn't into seeing all that. Sry for all the stupid questions
    You're asking fine questions.
    The other guy is a notorious pain in the ass who loves semantics arguments so naturally I'm frustrated in those posts.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by hosemisnuba View Post
    In other words, people don't like the idea of Luffy being the final villain.
    haha damn, you put it so succinctly.

  16. #1336

    Default Re: Who is the final villain in One Piece? 2.0

    In this civil war, where do the Neo Pacifista fit in, will they stay with the WG faction, or will they be with the revolution (Smoker...)? Where does Vegapunk stand as well, is him being a revolutionary still stand? Maybe if they are with the latter, then it will force the Gorosei to fight ( I just want them to fight really).

    Also can we make the distinction between the Strawhats and Blackbeard pirates, in the sense that the Titan Captains command their own ship and sub-crew, like the Whitebeard division commanders did. I know the Strawhat Armada will be there to deal with it at the end, but the Strawhats do not operate in that sense, which in my eyes weakens brownie points from the Blackbeard pirates.
    Last edited by K. Kira XXIII; May 2nd, 2016 at 11:21 PM.

  17. #1337

    Default Re: Who is the final villain in One Piece? 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by hosemisnuba View Post
    In other words, people don't like the idea of Luffy being the final villain.
    I nominate this for best post of the year.
    _____________________________________

    Though I voted for Blackbeard in the poll, there is a possibility that the WG could be the final villain, like what s̶o̶u̶t̶h̶e̶r̶n̶ ̶a̶p̶e̶ the austra guy said (though I don't fully agree with all his points), especially if the One Piece is directly related to the revealing of the Void Century. Because assuming the One Piece was found by Luffy 1st, and the true history revealed, and that will trigger the whole war... right? I don't think the war will break out before One Piece is found.

    If so, it will feel awkward if Blackbeard is the final villain, because Luffy reached Raftel already and found the One Piece, so he now IS the pirate king.
    If the story follows this route, I can only see Blackbeard and co. as a major faction in the final war. Or a huge battle vs the Straw Hat fleet, something like the payback war in a larger scale before they reach Raftel. Just a possible alternative storytelling route. But then that would be 2 wars...

    MK, so you believe that the WG would be toppled during the war-as a faction that lost- before the Strawhat Crew faction vs Blackbeard Crew faction, and it would be something like the fight for the pirate king title? Or you believe its something else? And what do you think the sequence of events are? Also, do you think the 'rebel marines' (Smoker and co.) are an independent faction, or are they going to be allied with another one? And where do the other Supernovas fit in?
    That was a really jumbled up post...

    ↑Biological Weaopn of Doom and Destruction

  18. #1338

    Default Re: Who is the final villain in One Piece? 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Tamiel View Post
    which in my eyes weakens brownie points from the Blackbeard pirates.
    How? I'm not seeing how that changes anything at all.

  19. #1339
    Nami Lover Valkat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who is the final villain in One Piece? 2.0

    My opinion is BB or Akainu.

  20. #1340

    Default Re: Who is the final villain in One Piece? 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by le crystal View Post

    If so, it will feel awkward if Blackbeard is the final villain, because Luffy reached Raftel already and found the One Piece, so he now IS the pirate king.
    If the story follows this route, I can only see Blackbeard and co. as a major faction in the final war. Or a huge battle vs the Straw Hat fleet, something like the payback war in a larger scale before they reach Raftel. Just a possible alternative storytelling route. But then that would be 2 wars...
    This assumes that what Blackbeard cares about is winning the title first, or even specifically the title.
    It also shows you too are viewing Blackbeard strictly as a character involved in the "pirate plot", and one who has nothing otherwise to do with the macro-plot.
    Don't you think Oda's been building him up as being involved in that side of things as well?
    MK, so you believe that the WG would be toppled during the war-as a faction that lost- before the Strawhat Crew faction vs Blackbeard Crew faction, and it would be something like the fight for the pirate king title? Or you believe its something else?


    I believe that the revelations in the Lost Century will reveal a conflict beyond what we're aware of. Involving exactly what caused the collapse of the AK and the reason the WG is so "hush hush" oriented as it is. What the ancient weapons are all about as well for instance. The full nature of the D's will be part of this clearly.

    I've said countless times in this thread that I think roughly it will be about a struggle to define the new era at that point. A struggle to make good (or bad) on the secrets of the ancient civilization. With Luffy representing the good things about the secrets, and Blackbeard the bad things.
    In all this the WG has only ever been playing the role of status quo keepers. With the end of the status quo, they will begin to crumble with the unleashed chaos they had tried keeping shut for almost a millennium (like Whitebeard hinted at). And the true conflict that will emerge from the rubble to be the last battle will be between that dark/light duality that Oda's shown with Luffy and Blackbeard.
    Also, do you think the 'rebel marines' (Smoker and co.) are an independent faction, or are they going to be allied with another one?
    Ultimately they will be allied with the Strawhats. The whole thing about True Justice is it doesn't follow the letter of the law, but seeks the actual justice in a situation right?
    What really makes pirates like Luffy villains? Next to nothing.
    And where do the other Supernovas fit in?
    That was a really jumbled up post...
    Most of the Supernovas look to be characters Oda utilizes through the remainder of the New World leading up to Raftel for various purposes.

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