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Thread: My Hero Academia - Gomu Gomu no Gentle Fist

  1. #8161
    Forever Hajro's Avatar
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    Default Re: My Hero Academia - Red Diamond is Crash

    Horikoshi changed a massive amount due to his editor, do you think the decision to change midoriya was an agreement or more like "hey thats a cool idea but it wont sell"
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  2. #8162
    Kick-Ass Finalis desa's Avatar
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    Default Re: My Hero Academia - Red Diamond is Crash

    Quote Originally Posted by Hajro View Post
    Horikoshi changed a massive amount due to his editor, do you think the decision to change midoriya was an agreement or more like "hey thats a cool idea but it wont sell"
    Considering how important something like that would be I think it's more that the problem wasn't the story being better if Deku get a power but rather that Deku without power wouldn't sell enough.



  3. #8163
    The Die Has Been Cast Count Mario's Avatar
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    Default Re: Boku no Hero Academia

    Quote Originally Posted by Hajro View Post
    MHA at its heart feels like a series that has been "engineered" rather than one that has been written tbh. Same problem that Black Clover suffers from, it feels like Shonen Tropes: Hero Edition than Kohei Horikoshi`s My Hero Academia, i dont see the Author in it, all i see is basically competent use of standard shonen tropes in order to make a series that will sell.
    My Hero Academia can get trope-y and have cliches here and there (like heroes using willpower to barely defeat an enemy, Deku being an underdog, and Bakugou being the overconfident rival character), but Horikoshi still goes a good job at often turning those tropes on their head and introducing unique story elements, characterization, and style of plot progression. I often jokingly call My Hero Academia to be Naruto Part 1 with superheroes, but it's actually done a bunch of things better than Naruto Part 1 and can stand on its own as a big Shonen Jump title. I don't mind stories using certain tropes and even cliches if there's clearly well thought out passion and unique execution in how they are handled rather than being thrown around like tokens.

    If this was really Shonen Tropes: Hero Edition, then Deku would have gotten a 1v1 fight with somebody during the USJ Invasion arc and probably save the day without needing to rely on All-Might, the Sports Festival would have only had the third round tournament expanded across the whole arc instead of unique and fun challenges beforehand Deku would have won the Sports Festival through sheer willpower, Deku would have hogged the glory in defeating Stain instead of needing to rely on Iida and Shouto as a team, Deku and Bakugou would have been able to cuff All-Might during the Final Exam, Horikoshi would have rushed straight into delivering almost everybody's backstory and motivation during the USJ Invasion/Sports Festival/Stain arcs only to fade into irrelevancy later by having all of their story roles tapped so quickly, Uraraka would have either been an annoying tsundere or a shy girl in love with Deku nearly from the start and have nearly her entire character revolving around her being too shy to confess to Deku, Uraraka wouldn't have gotten her fight with Bakugou, All-Might would have been killed by All For One instead of intriguingly losing his power and still stick around as a mentor who will not die in some cliche battle to the death, Bakugou after being "defeated" by Deku in the Battle Trial arc would have either faded into irrelevancy as a little more than a jobbing background character (likely with Shouto taking his place as the edgy shonen rival) or immediately reformed his personality into becoming more humble/noble instead of Horikoshi's realistic approach of breaking down his worldview over the course of several arcs while still remaining one of the strongest characters, Shigaraki would have either been a run of the mill arc villain or a mysterious stoic badass from the start, Horikoshi wouldn't go out of his way to have every training arc be twisted into some big villain showdown event, Deku would have been a special person with all sorts of big bloodline connections and/or advanced potential since early in the series, and Bakugou would have joined the League of Villains after being kidnapped in a predictable fashion instead of having an interesting character arc of learning to respect Deku and strive to be a hero despite his glaring flaws.

    My Hero Academia deserves a lot more credit than you're giving it despite its flaws.

    I haven't read Black Clover for most of its run. But I've checked out some chapters and know that the current arc is some kind of magic tournament. And from what I can ignorantly see from skimming through the premise and seeing how those chapters are written, that's the series that looks like Shonen Tropes: Magic Edition (and it's not like we don't already have Fairy Tail for that). But if I'm wrong, I'm completely game for anybody correcting me so that I can give the series a proper chance.

    Quote Originally Posted by desa View Post
    I would imagine reversal coming from Eri letting the heroes experiment on her and coming up with her solution after she have begged to let herself be studied and prove not everything about her is awful. It was kind of what I expect when Overhaul gave his speech. Plus the author does have a history of brushing of consequences. I would expect such research to take some time. Like being ready just when having the last big confrontation with the association of villain. The trope of the crumbling plan just before defeating the villain.

    EDIT: plus Mirio could have been crippled or lose his abilities for to long if the author manage to stick to his quirklessness.
    I am fine with that. Barely. But my problem is how some people indicate Mirio is going to get his Quirk back by the end of this arc. It shouldn't be that soon regardless of what happens to Eri. If he's getting his Quirk back, it needs to be earned back with proper time and focus to make the erasure of his Quirk truly meaningful. Horikoshi does brush off consequences, but the difference here is that they would usually severely harm the protagonists and the overall story from progressing well. Mirio has the unique position of being a side character, which makes his future much more interesting and potentially unpredictable since he is a variable Horikoshi can actually risk putting him through hell at the expense of his progress as a hero. Unlike Midoriya, who has to graduate and become the top hero one day. As well as big supporting characters like Shouto and Bakugou.

    The beginning of the story definitely point to Deku becoming an hero without quirk(which I would find more interesting and would make some of the theme Count wanted to see explore work better) but the story we got isn't one where I understand the hate for the system. They don't just pick flashy powers they frwaking test the kids the same way you would test potential law enforcement. They don't just let people fly off the handle because they are flashy, they are tutored as we see with Bakugou. And weaker people like Mirio at the begenning or the perv aren't turned away either. Aside of a policy of who cares about qualifications I never understood the hate for this system or mentality. FlameBeard is clearly presentex as an anomaly not the norm.
    I understand what you're saying, and I agree that the story so far doesn't seem to go for a "the system sucks and needs to change" as a big theme outside of the motivation for the villains in selfish insane ways. But Endeavor isn't the only anomaly in this.

    Spoiler:
    Deku tries to save Bakugou in Chapter One and is the only one able to spring All-Might into action unknowingly, but gets criticized by the Pro-Heroes while Bakugou hogs all of the praise despite endangering everybody with his flashy Quirk. There is also Deku, Iida, and Shouto not getting credited for taking down the Hero Killer simply because they didn't have official privileges to use their Quirks in public. Of all the people to give that credit to as a cover-up, Endeavor takes the glory. Stain was an villainous fundamentalist at the end of the day, but the fact that we learned about Endeavor in the previous arc is what makes his argument almost ring true. Deku, Iida, Yaoyorozu, Shouto, and Kirishima go to rescue Bakugou, and while they are clearly out of their depth, Bakugou might not have been successfully saved if it was not for them. Aizawa chastises them as deserving to be expelled, but still lets them off the hook. Then there's Shigaraki, who is obsessed with tearing down the world All-Might has created because he strongly dislikes all of the naive hope and ignorance to those in need portrayed by society, which strongly hints that those flashback glimpses will reveal a backstory that's about being neglected from being saved by heroes in some way. Which would be told most effectively if Pro-Hero regulations got in the way, or else Shigaraki's backstory won't come across as sympathetic but moreso petty and ignorant if it only boils down to nobody noting his plights off of sheer coincidence.

    But even after all of these incidents, the story and characters never really acknowledge that something needs to change about society that it is. At most, it's system that works but is unfortunately going to suck sometimes because heroics prescribed by law don't often online with heroics in a pragmatic ethical sense. Deku was a naive idiot who would have gotten killed had All-Might not coincidentally been present. Iida and the boys were reckless during the Stain arc and didn't run away or call for help from any Pro-Heroes in the vicinity. The kids rescuing Bakugou were reckless as well and could have potentially jeopardized the mission if any of them were injured or worse.

    They don't necessarily deserve praise. But they also don't necessarily deserve full condemnation either. Which I like. It's a balanced take on how beneficial yet inhibitive legislations can truly be like in real life, and how reckless heroism can have profound risks and consequences even if they work out well. The law does not need to be rebooted from the ground-up because while Endeavor and other heroes like Stain arc Iida may be selfish or corrupt, it also allows a lot of good to result as a way to counter that in the likes of Ochako (who is in it for the money, but in a selfless way of supporting her family), Deku (teaching him to gradually become less reckless throughout the story, Shouto (learning to swallow his pride and accept assistance from Endavor as a stepping stone), Iida (reforming him from his revenge obsession to limit himself more and focus on selflessness), etc. So I agree with you that this story isn't really one that is about needing a complete overhaul of a caricature-esque amoral shallow system.

    But you can't deny that a big part of this series that Horikoshi will never stop stroking off if that to be an ideal hero, you need to be an impetuous idiot when it's ultimatum crunch time. Butting your nose in where it doesn't belong, as Deku put it when he arrived to save Iida again Stain. And that is the focal point of Deku and Mirio's characters in this very arc, with the former wanting to rescue Eri while risking Overhaul and the Yakuza getting away while Mirio wanted to hold back so that the eventual raid could have more of a chance to succeed. It's very VERY clear that the story is portraying Mirio's choice in the wrong, which he himself has been having guilt trip over the past few chapters and would definitely rectify his mistake if he could travel back in time.

    It's because of this that I can't help but feel this is leading somewhere over the course of the story. I don't know where, I don't know what, I don't know where. But there is only so many times that Horikoshi can keep up the old "I have to break the rules as a necessary step for true justice" without it becoming stale and repetitive. We know he plans longterm Oda-style, and he keeps advancing recurring themes about inspiration for heroes and villains, and how some of the villains feel like social outcasts that have no choice in being who they are. I can hardly predict where this story is going since it's much less formulaic than One Piece, but I really don't think that the story is just going to end with the Pro-Heroes managing to overpower the League of Villains, throw them all in jail, and then FIN. That is way too simple and predictable for how complex the themes of this series. The themes of this series focusing on how anybody can be a hero, that there is more to a hero than flashiness, and that you may need to act outside of the law to be a hero against a group that wants to crush the foundation of society is going to come to a head at SOME point. And I doubt the result is going to be that everything stays exactly the way it is, and that Deku merely becomes All-Might 2.0. with little difference in appearance, fighting style, and what he represents in being the greatest hero. Otherwise, what is the point in repeating all of this stuff over and over again with no real change to what we already know about heroism? Sorry if I sound like a broken record, but I feel like there has to be payoff on this stuff when Deku's charismatic attributes and society's regulations/expectations so often come to a head and typically end up putting Deku in a brighter light even if the story doesn't outright diss the law as being a dumb problem.

    I know that U.A. is currently fixated on making the students become heroes that can replace All-Might as a whole so that they do not have to rely only one person. This is progress. I expect this to be followed up more. But... I don't think it's going to be that simple. Not that it won't come to pass, but we know Deku is still going to be special in some way. This is an action-adventure shonen series, after all. He's going to hog the spotlight SOMEHOW no matter how much respect the other supporting characters get. It's All-Might's presence that led to the rise of the League of Villains, and Deku has to do at least one thing different as All-Might's replacement to ensure the cycle doesn't eventually repeat besides putting criminals in jail. This series' puts too much emphasis on how All-Might inspire others, both heroes and villains, for that to be the only result.


    It's not about the story making me hate the system so much as Deku defying the laws so constantly in an admirable light that it has go somewhere interesting besides always having the consequences always brushed off. Otherwise, it's wasteful and repetitive.

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  4. #8164

    Default Re: My Hero Academia - Red Diamond is Crash

    I thing I find particularly nice, and original for I haven't read anything quite similar, is the series showing the growth of both the main protagonist and the main antagonist as foils to one another.




  5. #8165
    The Die Has Been Cast Count Mario's Avatar
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    Default Re: My Hero Academia - Red Diamond is Crash

    Quote Originally Posted by pariston_hill View Post
    I thing I find particularly nice, and original for I haven't read anything quite similar, is the series showing the growth of both the main protagonist and the main antagonist as foils to one another.
    I also really like this. I wish I saw it more often. Although Berserk kind of does it with Guts and Griffith. And One Piece sort of does it in a briefer way with Luffy and Blackbeard. And technically Naruto and Sasuke might count...

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  6. #8166

    Default Re: My Hero Academia - Red Diamond is Crash

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Mario View Post
    I also really like this. I wish I saw it more often. Although Berserk kind of does it with Guts and Griffith. And One Piece sort of does it in a briefer way with Luffy and Blackbeard. And technically Naruto and Sasuke might count...
    I agree with Luffy vs Blackbeard, and Guts vs Griffith for some extent but Kishimoto didn't have a clue on what to do with Sasuke, at the least from Itachi's first appearance forwards. But it is something that's rarely done.


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  7. #8167

    Default Re: My Hero Academia - Red Diamond is Crash

    This might be an unpopular opinion because I see based on reddit and other forum's that this arc isn't well liked, but to me this arc is the best arc in the series so far. I actually appreciate Horikoshi slowing down the pacing and giving more characterization and development to the characters within the arc. Not only Deku as usual But Kirishima, Mirio, Amajiki, Fatgum, Nighteye, Overhaul, Shigaraki, Toga and Twice, list goes on and on. Also the fights have all been great, and finally a powerful villain threat that won't get taken out in the same arc. I'm also anxious to see just exactly what Overhauls plan is and how it interacts with the story.

  8. #8168
    Karaage-san, Aishiteru! AfroSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: My Hero Academia - Red Diamond is Crash

    Quote Originally Posted by xAsum0x View Post
    This might be an unpopular opinion because I see based on reddit and other forum's that this arc isn't well liked, but to me this arc is the best arc in the series so far. I actually appreciate Horikoshi slowing down the pacing and giving more characterization and development to the characters within the arc. Not only Deku as usual But Kirishima, Mirio, Amajiki, Fatgum, Nighteye, Overhaul, Shigaraki, Toga and Twice, list goes on and on. Also the fights have all been great, and finally a powerful villain threat that won't get taken out in the same arc. I'm also anxious to see just exactly what Overhauls plan is and how it interacts with the story.
    I'm really enjoying this arc. Especially the kirishima stuff. Dis is gooood.
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  9. #8169
    The Die Has Been Cast Count Mario's Avatar
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    Default Re: My Hero Academia - Red Diamond is Crash

    Quote Originally Posted by pariston_hill View Post
    I agree with Luffy vs Blackbeard, and Guts vs Griffith for some extent but Kishimoto didn't have a clue on what to do with Sasuke, at the least from Itachi's first appearance forwards. But it is something that's rarely done.


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    I only said Naruto and Sasuke since they had the final fight of the series. Regardless of how messy their story was writing-wise.

    Quote Originally Posted by xAsum0x View Post
    This might be an unpopular opinion because I see based on reddit and other forum's that this arc isn't well liked, but to me this arc is the best arc in the series so far. I actually appreciate Horikoshi slowing down the pacing and giving more characterization and development to the characters within the arc. Not only Deku as usual But Kirishima, Mirio, Amajiki, Fatgum, Nighteye, Overhaul, Shigaraki, Toga and Twice, list goes on and on. Also the fights have all been great, and finally a powerful villain threat that won't get taken out in the same arc. I'm also anxious to see just exactly what Overhauls plan is and how it interacts with the story.
    What do you mean a powerful villain threat won't get taken out this arc? It looks like the Cleansers are going to be done in by the end of this arc. Not that I would mind Chisaki escaping if he could do more interesting things in the story. Unless you mean Toga and Twice, but the League of Villains have gotten away all of the time.

    Your praises are sound, but it's going to be awful if the girls get skipped. Or only relegated to one chapter while everybody's fights get at least three chapters.

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  10. #8170

    Default Re: My Hero Academia - Red Diamond is Crash

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Mario View Post
    I only said Naruto and Sasuke since they had the final fight of the series. Regardless of how messy their story was writing-wise.


    What do you mean a powerful villain threat won't get taken out this arc? It looks like the Cleansers are going to be done in by the end of this arc. Not that I would mind Chisaki escaping if he could do more interesting things in the story. Unless you mean Toga and Twice, but the League of Villains have gotten away all of the time.

    Your praises are sound, but it's going to be awful if the girls get skipped. Or only relegated to one chapter while everybody's fights get at least three chapters.
    Overhaul. There's still alot more to learn about him and honestly we still don't even know what his plan is or how that plan benefits the League of Villians like Shigaraki said. I think that's a clear indicator that we're not yet done with him. I completely agree though that if we skip the girls it would pretty bad. I'm surprised he hasn't done anything with Nejire yet but I'm sure with the emphasis on the "Big 3" that she'll have some sort of role

  11. #8171
    The Die Has Been Cast Count Mario's Avatar
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    Default Re: My Hero Academia - Red Diamond is Crash

    Quote Originally Posted by xAsum0x View Post
    Overhaul. There's still alot more to learn about him and honestly we still don't even know what his plan is or how that plan benefits the League of Villians like Shigaraki said. I think that's a clear indicator that we're not yet some with him. I completely agree though that if we skip the girls it would pretty bad. I'm surprised he hasn't done anything with Nejire yet but I'm sure with the emphasis on the "Big 3" that she'll have some sort of role
    I think we'll find out through some monologue or flashback during the fight with Deku. Or we even see a flashback of what the plan is when we get back to Shigaraki. All we need to know about him is that plan, Eri's origin, and his backstory. All of that can be done in a single flashback the length of Kirishima or Sun Eater's.
    Last edited by Count Mario; September 9th, 2017 at 09:35 PM.

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  12. #8172

    Default Re: My Hero Academia - Red Diamond is Crash

    Black Clover is Later Naruto/Fairy Tail without the infiurating parts. It's not terribly bad, but it's not good either. It's just kind of there.
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  13. #8173

    Default Re: My Hero Academia - Red Diamond is Crash

    I like Black Clover.

  14. #8174
    Champion Worrier Zar's Avatar
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    Default Re: My Hero Academia - Red Diamond is Crash

    Quote Originally Posted by maxterdexter View Post
    Black Clover is Later Naruto/Fairy Tail without the infiurating parts. It's not terribly bad, but it's not good either. It's just kind of there.
    From what I've understood, what Black Clover has going for it is having no high expectations. Fairy Tail, Naruto, Bleach all had strong openings so the later mediocrity felt like an insult, but with Black Clover it started out that way so it's easier to enjoy it for what it is (and leaves room for it to get better).

  15. #8175

    Default Re: My Hero Academia - Red Diamond is Crash

    Quote Originally Posted by Zar View Post
    From what I've understood, what Black Clover has going for it is having no high expectations. Fairy Tail, Naruto, Bleach all had strong openings so the later mediocrity felt like an insult, but with Black Clover it started out that way so it's easier to enjoy it for what it is (and leaves room for it to get better).
    It started eye-rolling cliche but ended up being... tolerable.
    It doesn't have anything really exceptional, but it's also non-offensive.

    Personally it's not on the upper half of interesting WSJ manga in the current line-up.
    I don't look forward to each chapter like OP, Hero Academia, Neverland, or Kimetsu, but I don't avoid or skip it when going through the pages either.

  16. #8176

    Default Re: My Hero Academia - Red Diamond is Crash

    Quote Originally Posted by Zar View Post
    From what I've understood, what Black Clover has going for it is having no high expectations. Fairy Tail, Naruto, Bleach all had strong openings so the later mediocrity felt like an insult, but with Black Clover it started out that way so it's easier to enjoy it for what it is (and leaves room for it to get better).
    Fairy tail never had it's "strong opening" act, black clover had a strong ramp up to a boss battle for that, and I buy the friendship of the main guild with 100 chapters more than the rookies had between eachother in the whole of naruto.
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  17. #8177

    Default Re: My Hero Academia - Red Diamond is Crash

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Mario View Post
    I think we'll find out through some monologue or flashback during the fight with Deku. Or we even see a flashback of what the plan is when we get back to Shigaraki. All we need to know about him is that plan, Eri's origin, and his backstory. All of that can be done in a single flashback the length of Kirishima or Sun Eater's.
    I have to agree with this.

    While it would be nice to see more of Overhaul- as his approach of overthrowing a Quirk-laden society is interesting- I wouldn't mind seeing him and his group exit the stage at this point. He would've served as a nice stepping stone/distraction from the main act, the League of Villains, and that in itself is plenty in my eyes.

    The more intriguing aspect that will be addressed in the next few weeks will be Mirio and especially Deku's reactions to the former being in the state he's in now. Needless to say that Mirio's display in the latest chapter was marvelous.

  18. #8178

    Default Re: My Hero Academia - Red Diamond is Crash

    How the author handles Mirio's situation after this, will define whether he is good or great. In a few chapters he's shown us why Mirio was considered a candidate for inheriting All for one. Then he loses his powers(which is a gut punch but keeps the stakes high) and Deku knows that he was chosen over Mirio, so this has potential for building up some interesting storylines.

    For the first time in a long while, I'm actually excited about a weekly show/entertainment.
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  19. #8179

    Default Re: My Hero Academia - Red Diamond is Crash

    So by yonkou p. It seems the season will end at the mall encounter.
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  20. #8180
    King of Little Sisters ~ Chrior's Avatar
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    Default Re: My Hero Academia - Red Diamond is Crash

    Overall, I think this arc has been a bit boring at times (I don't really care for Sun Eater, who showed up only and the beginning of the arc, but it was still interesting nonetheless), but this latest chapter really got to me. I really agree that the next few steps and how Mirio is handled next will define if the author is indeed great. If he has the guts to pull off having him permanently lose his quirk, then I will definitely applaud. Having the league of villains participate but being on the sidelines of the arc is also a plus, as is giving characters like Kirishima more development, by having a small amount of the main cast participate in this storyline. I hope that in the future we can have a similar thing but without Deku at all. Sometimes he hogs more spotlight that I think he should.

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