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Thread: Attack on Titan

  1. #4261

    Default Re: Attack on Titan

    The 50 year plan seems plausible on paper but come on, a nation built on making Historia pretty much just a child bearer?
    Also, there's the issue of the hatred not going away and delaying the inevitable.
    If AOT technology advances the same way or even faster than the modern world, there's no way the world won't ask for sterilisation of the Eldians because of the long history of hatred and the threat they possess.
    As long as they can shift, they are a threat and that's even if the world wants a negotiation in the first place.
    More than likely in a decade or two, nukes will obilerate paradis.
    Kiyomi's 50 year plan doesn't take into account politics, assassination and her own intention(which serves herself than paradis).
    Even if it does suceed through the halfway mark, Eren and co is basically passing the entire burden to the next generation which repeats the cycle.
    So there's really no way that's the "right" route.
    Once you look at the situation like a numbers thing, this discussion is over because Eren is objectively wrong.
    But every other path is wrong to him and not in character, which is why this is such a great turn of events(and writing).
    Calling him a coward and making it a black and white thing misses the whole point.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Shandian View Post
    This is a good post and sums my own thoughts nicely as well. Eren's tale in whole series has been ultimately a tragedy. I disliked Eren at begin of series, but he grown up to me when series progressed, though he never was my favorite character his character growth was exceptional through the series, although ultimately he didn't grow up a saviour... but rather destroyer. I don't know if Eren would even had much choice since he was molded by all the events that was bestowed on him.

    I think best thing to happen to Eren is simply peace upon death. I simply cannot fathom any salvation for someone as utterly broken and shattered character as Eren.
    The beauty of Eden's character is that for someone that embodied the desire to be free, he was never once free.
    Not just physical but also mentally and metaphorically.
    He has been stuck in the bird cage since chapter 1 and likely will until his demise.

  2. #4262
    Discovered Stowaway Lord Gaimon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Attack on Titan

    Quote Originally Posted by zeltrax225 View Post
    The 50 year plan seems plausible on paper but come on, a nation built on making Historia pretty much just a child bearer?
    Also, there's the issue of the hatred not going away and delaying the inevitable.
    If AOT technology advances the same way or even faster than the modern world, there's no way the world won't ask for sterilisation of the Eldians because of the long history of hatred and the threat they possess.
    As long as they can shift, they are a threat and that's even if the world wants a negotiation in the first place.
    More than likely in a decade or two, nukes will obilerate paradis.
    Kiyomi's 50 year plan doesn't take into account politics, assassination and her own intention(which serves herself than paradis).
    Even if it does suceed through the halfway mark, Eren and co is basically passing the entire burden to the next generation which repeats the cycle.
    So there's really no way that's the "right" route.
    Once you look at the situation like a numbers thing, this discussion is over because Eren is objectively wrong.
    But every other path is wrong to him and not in character, which is why this is such a great turn of events(and writing).
    Calling him a coward and making it a black and white thing misses the whole point.
    1-the 50 year plan includes the destruction of the military capabilities of the other nations so i don't see how they are going to develop nukes and the paradsians can just make their own anyway.
    2-the 50 year plan includes making mutually beneficial alliances with other nations so i don't see how it doesn't consider politics.
    3-of course they are going to pass the burden to the next generation there is no final solution here that doesn't involve destroying the world that's the nature of geopolitics.

    i agree that it makes sense for eren's character to do this and is well written, but his character isn't that of a tragic hero, he was offered a plan that had a decent chance of working that would have avoided slaughter on this scale, but it would have involved a person close to him making sacrifices, and he couldn't accept that, because he's a small-minded monster. he's a monster I can understand and empathize with, but he's a monster all the same.
    Last edited by Lord Gaimon; August 6th, 2020 at 12:35 AM.

  3. #4263

    Default Re: Attack on Titan

    Paradisians are too technologically backwards as compared to the rest of the world.
    You can't really just say they will catch up when the rest of the world likely have researchers and technologies stored in their basement.
    Even with their military equipment destroyed, the possibility of redevelopment or them secretly doing it is still up there.
    You can take away the tool but you can't take away the skill and in this case, the hatred too.
    By politics I'm referring to politics inside paradise. It is not unlikely that Historia will become a political tool or that someone else or something else would disrupt or corrupt the plan.
    I'm just saying the 50 year plan is too optimistic and it will likely just delay the inevitable.

  4. #4264
    Discovered Stowaway Lord Gaimon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Attack on Titan

    Quote Originally Posted by zeltrax225 View Post
    Paradisians are too technologically backwards as compared to the rest of the world.
    they have hizuru there to help them develop they also have an energy source with iceburst stones.
    You can't really just say they will catch up when the rest of the world likely have researchers and technologies stored in their basement.
    Even with their military equipment destroyed, the possibility of redevelopment or them secretly doing it is still up there.
    the world can try to rebuild their militaries and they will just be destroyed again, paradis is in a postion of power here.
    You can take away the tool but you can't take away the skill and in this case, the hatred too.
    the hatred can go away with time as shown with multiple characters. and even if doesn't it is in the other nations self interest to try and coexist with paradis.
    By politics I'm referring to politics inside paradise. It is not unlikely that Historia will become a political tool or that someone else or something else would disrupt or corrupt the plan.
    yes the plan has risks and will require a lot of work to succeed and that's why these arguments for the rumbling boil down to it being quicker and easier. essentially, an appeal to laziness.

    the rumbling isn't neccesary but due to eren’s personality he wants to end this now. he is the only one with the childlike enough mindset to carry through with this, we have got two chapters focused on his POV, and both of which emphasise him reverting to childhood in some way when achieving his goal. it speaks for itself.

    i’m curious, do you just think every character in the alliance except eren is an idiot? like he is the only person blessed with intelligence to realise genocide is necessary, and they just can’t comprehend it? because that’s sort of what you’re implying here.
    Last edited by Lord Gaimon; August 6th, 2020 at 01:51 AM.

  5. #4265

    Default Re: Attack on Titan

    Except he isn't blessed with intelligence but with God like ability to see the future?
    I don't think you get my point and have somehow become very persistent in defending the 50 year plan.
    The very fact that it was proposed by Hizuru and not a paradise resident means that anyone reading it could see that it is an obviously biased approach.
    You are also downplaying the rest of the world.
    If someone told a population to listen by force and fear, chances are that dictatorship will be quick to fall or a revolution will happen.
    That is what I meant by pushing back the inevitable.
    If there's any dissent, send titans and problem solved? Except it doesn't work like that.
    Wrecking their militaries with titans would escalate things and not solve any cycle of hate like you've mentioned it as if opressors and the opressed can ever have an equal discussion.
    How's that for naivety?
    The more Eldians seek to control the world through fear, the less likely for peace or for the world's hatred to be reduced.
    There's also factors such as the inheritor being used for political ammunition or a tool for the factions inside Paradise down the road.

    I don't know why are you trying to complicate things when I'm making a simple point that the 50 years plan is flawed and open to alot of shit that likely will happen that will just delay the inevitable.
    I'm not saying he's the smartest guy, hes flawed as hell but the entire story is an examination of how humans are flawed as hell.
    How the heck can a single plan be the answer to all that is beyond me, when the very point of this narrative and the AOT world history has led to this exact point where any plan to save Paradis is bound to go to the shitter.

  6. #4266
    Discovered Stowaway Lord Gaimon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Attack on Titan

    how the hell does destroying militaries escalate things it does the opposite of that, i don't think you understand how powerful a position paradis is in, there is literally nothing the world could do to them as long as they have the wall titans.
    and paradis doesn't need to control the entire world through fear, hizuru is proof that some nations are willing to ally with eldians for material gain.

    and as i said before there is no final solution to this problem that doesn't involve destroying the world. there has never been permanent peace in human history the best our characters could do is buy as much peacetime as they could and believe in the next generations to do the same.
    Last edited by Lord Gaimon; August 6th, 2020 at 05:19 AM.

  7. #4267
    Kick-Ass Finalis desa's Avatar
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    Default Re: Attack on Titan

    Quote Originally Posted by zeltrax225 View Post
    Except he isn't blessed with intelligence but with God like ability to see the future?
    I don't think you get my point and have somehow become very persistent in defending the 50 year plan.
    The very fact that it was proposed by Hizuru and not a paradise resident means that anyone reading it could see that it is an obviously biased approach.
    You are also downplaying the rest of the world.
    If someone told a population to listen by force and fear, chances are that dictatorship will be quick to fall or a revolution will happen.
    That is what I meant by pushing back the inevitable.
    If there's any dissent, send titans and problem solved? Except it doesn't work like that.
    Wrecking their militaries with titans would escalate things and not solve any cycle of hate like you've mentioned it as if opressors and the opressed can ever have an equal discussion.
    How's that for naivety?
    The more Eldians seek to control the world through fear, the less likely for peace or for the world's hatred to be reduced.
    There's also factors such as the inheritor being used for political ammunition or a tool for the factions inside Paradise down the road.

    I don't know why are you trying to complicate things when I'm making a simple point that the 50 years plan is flawed and open to alot of shit that likely will happen that will just delay the inevitable.
    I'm not saying he's the smartest guy, hes flawed as hell but the entire story is an examination of how humans are flawed as hell.
    How the heck can a single plan be the answer to all that is beyond me, when the very point of this narrative and the AOT world history has led to this exact point where any plan to save Paradis is bound to go to the shitter.
    I think his point is that trying to make a flawed plan work requires more courage than a fool proof plan. The 50 years could work or failed but Eren wont take that risk of failing and chooses instead to kill everyone because even if horrible he knows that plan can only work.



  8. #4268

    Default Re: Attack on Titan

    Despite the fact I continue to read i just can't enjoy genocidal Erin I am wondering if I am the only one in the boat I am extremely disappointed in the turn of events

  9. #4269

    Default Re: Attack on Titan

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Gaimon View Post
    how the hell does destroying militaries escalate things it does the opposite of that, i don't think you understand how powerful a position paradis is in, there is literally nothing the world could do to them as long as they have the wall titans.
    and paradis doesn't need to control the entire world through fear, hizuru is proof that some nations are willing to ally with eldians for material gain.

    and as i said before there is no final solution to this problem that doesn't involve destroying the world. there has never been permanent peace in human history the best our characters could do is buy as much peacetime as they could and believe in the next generations to do the same.
    I feel like I've become tunneled vision in arguing against the 50 year plan when that's not where the argument is at.
    Yes, so we can agree that the plan is flawed but that it takes more courage to go with that plan than to destroy the world is not something I can see eye to eye with you on.

  10. #4270

    Default Re: Attack on Titan

    "IF YOU’RE A MAN YOU DON’T CRY ABOUT IT. YOU TAKE LIFE THE UPS AND DOWNS. IF YOU’RE A REAL MAN YA NEVER GO DOWN YA JUST STAY UP"
    - RIC FLAIR


  11. #4271

    Default Re: Attack on Titan

    Damn, my Hange x Levi ship...



  12. #4272

    Default Re: Attack on Titan

    I... I cried ...
    “As I stand out here in the wonders of the unknown at Hadley, I sort of realize there’s a fundamental truth to our nature: Man must explore!” – David Scott, Moon

  13. #4273

    Default Re: Attack on Titan

    That was a good chapter.

    So... who's next?

  14. #4274

    Default Re: Attack on Titan

    Should be Levi so the poor guy finally stops suffering.
    "IF YOU’RE A MAN YOU DON’T CRY ABOUT IT. YOU TAKE LIFE THE UPS AND DOWNS. IF YOU’RE A REAL MAN YA NEVER GO DOWN YA JUST STAY UP"
    - RIC FLAIR


  15. #4275

  16. #4276
    The English Avenger Satsuki's Avatar
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    Default Re: Attack on Titan

    Nobody is going to be left at this rate.

  17. #4277

    Default Re: Attack on Titan

    I spotted Sasha at the last page!
    Best girl...
    Edit: second last page

  18. #4278

    Default Re: Attack on Titan

    Beautiful but sudden.

    Now I am wondering if the dancing titan, or Annie or Reiner are heat resistant, and the later two know how to use a 3D gear, how long until they make a titan sized 3 d gear?
    3DS FC: 0516-7666-3837
    SW-4128-8032-0729

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