+ Reply to Thread
Page 272 of 273 FirstFirst ... 172 222 262 270 271 272 273 LastLast
Results 5,421 to 5,440 of 5443

Thread: Western Comics thread

  1. #5421

    Default Re: Western Comics thread

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfwood View Post
    All those services have the same name where i come from. Not available in your region we call it. Oh well atleast the marvel app works wonderfully, and they have like sales like everyday. But it would be sweet to have those type of subscription services you guys have
    Marvel Unlimited is available worldwide.

  2. #5422

    Default Re: Western Comics thread

    lol the first issue of his run hasn't even come out yet and Jonathan Hickman has already made the X-Men line good again for the first time since, like, 2013.

  3. #5423
    Kick-Ass Finalis desa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Somewhere

    Default Re: Western Comics thread

    Watchmen

    So I know several/many think of the movie as bad of the comic. I am wondering what makes it a bad for you and what makes the different endings problematic to you?



  4. #5424

    Default Re: Western Comics thread

    The ending being changed isn't the problem. The comic ending was insane and took a super subtle obtuse background D plot to string it together and it was very... comic bookey. That just wasn't going to work on screen, not in a film. (As a tv series with time to really dedicate to each issue and like, an 8 hour runtime instead of 3, maybe.) What they changed it to isn't wrong because it lacks a giant squid monster...it's wrong because it lacks the message, intent, and goal, and kind of screws up the master plan in a lot of ways..

    But basically, its the nuance. Because, and this seems insane, but... the movie is a word for word, shot for shot recreation of the comic, Basically every scene, every moment got up on screen, and the extended version even had stuff that REALLY shouldn't have been in like the Black Freighter part. That sounds great, right?

    EXCEPT... the director didn't understand any of it.

    He didn't have the background and grounding in other comics to understand what he was doing. Watchmen was the only comic he knew so he took it all at face value. HE shot the film like the characters were all cool tireless badasses. And he missed the point entirely. They're supposed to be human. Rorschach is supposed to be awful and gross and smelly and unliked by everyone, and kind of horrific and all sorts of messed up, and in the film he's just super badass hardcore Batman-light. Normal humans have fights where they break concrete with their fists, and the violence gets a slow mo focus even in the opening scene..

    When its that close to the book, line for line, shot for shot, thats when the omissions, the changes, the things that ARE missing become more glaring. He plays jokes for straight lines, straight lines for jokes, and amps up the gratuitous violence for no real reason and shows of Manhattan's junk waaay more times than the comic did, just because he though it was a funny thing to put on screen. Combined with the small handful of things added, the music choices, (including using the *wrong* version of All Along the Watchtower) missing cool things the comics did that were too subtle for him to pick up on, they show the director missing the point entirely.

    For example, one of the villains has an apartment by a motel. Theres a flashing light outside his room, alternating from blue to red. In the comic this changes every other panel to indicate that flicker... which then leads up to a dramatic horror reveal bathed in red light. In the film its just a consistent outside light and loses that effect entirely. The visual medium better suited for showcasing a light changing failed to do so compared to a comic. Maybe that would have been hard to film, or maybe that was too subtle and the director didn't even realize that was a detail there. But it was lost all the same and that's on the art side of things being missed.

    Or, early on in the film, Rorscach climbs a building. In the comic he uses a grappling hook and slowly has to pull himself up, so he has weight and is a real person. In the movie? He uses a zipline gun goes up in two seconds like a weightless cartoon. And that's a very little thing, but when you're doing as direct a translation as the director did, you cant help but notice the differences.

    There s a subplot in the comics where a kid is hanging out with a magazine vendor the entire story. They chit chat and bond and don't add much but they build up the world, and they're victims when the city gets destroyed. Someone we actually know and care about a little.

    That sounds like nitpicking, and it is, and if I was just pulling out those three things from an otherwise perfect movie I'd be an insane person... but there are hundreds of little examples of that sort of thing going on constantly and they add up over the course of the film. If it WASN'T so directly shot for shot line for line, it wouldn't matter and you'd never notice.

    Watchmen is a desconstruction. An example of "why it would be awful if superheroes are real." And he treats it like a celebration instead. (Though, so did most of the comics industry.) He put the entire comic up on screen and didn't understand a frame of it.

    All that aside, the comic's format was terrible for a movie. The nature of the flashbacks and reveals worked in a dense comic but not on screen. SOme things should have been re-ordered, moved around, or even cut, to make a more coherant narrative. Notably, the opening credits sequence where he actually shows some creative freedom is pretty fantastic.


    Its one of those things where if someone had access to all the footage they did, all the dailies, and used different takes, and had a different editor run over the exact same footage and the exact same dialogue and paced and cut it just a bit differently, used different music, emphasized and de-emphasized a few things differently, it might have been superb. But instead we have a deconstruction that thinks its playing the story straight.


    Notably, Snyder then did Man of Steel and BvS, where he again completely missed everything, though it was more obvious there because he made his own story up and because people actually understand what Superman is supposed to be like.
    Last edited by Robby; July 23rd, 2019 at 04:22 PM.
    To support Viz hosting all Jump manga for FREE and day of release, Arlong Park will now support the official release.
    https://www.viz.com/shonenjump

    Official chapter discussions now start Sundays at Noon, EST.
    Please do not post threads when scan sites release their version, and just discuss those releases in the spoiler thread.

  5. #5425
    Sweet Home Chicago Cyan D. Funk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Huxley U.

    Default Re: Western Comics thread

    Changing the squid to Dr. Manhattan also throws in a bunch of logic problems to the US-USSER rapprochement. The squid was an outside context thing divorced from the Cold War, making it more plausible that Moscow and Washington would bury the hatchet to defend against a (never happening) invasion, and the squid died (Predator logic: if it bleeds, you can kill it.)

    Replace it with Dr. Manhattan and you just have America's ultimate attack dog finally turning on its master, and not only that, Dr. Manhattan can't be killed so there's no reason for anyone on either side of the Iron Curtain to even begin to think that they can defend against him.

    On Rorschach, I haven't seen the movie in years but I think I remember Snyder inexplicably minimizing or cutting all the genuinely humanizing moments he has (not retaliating to his landlady while her kids are watching, reconciling with Dan, going into vigilantism in response to Kitty Genovese), thus making the glorifying Snyder does even dumber.

  6. #5426

    Default Re: Western Comics thread

    As someone who was introduced to Watchmen from the movie I need to ask: What sort of people was it made for?

  7. #5427

    Default Re: Western Comics thread

    Quote Originally Posted by KageKageKing View Post
    As someone who was introduced to Watchmen from the movie I need to ask: What sort of people was it made for?
    Have you read the comic?

    I mean, I guess the short answer is comic book/superhero fans, but Watchmen is more of a deconstruction of the genre and, as it's been said before, argues that superheroes in the real world would suck. But still, the series is so brilliantly written and artistically crafted that I think even people with a marginal, or at least casual awareness of the genre could get some enjoyment out of it.

    EDIT: Sorry, were you talking about the movie or the comic?

  8. #5428

    Default Re: Western Comics thread

    Quote Originally Posted by KageKageKing View Post
    As someone who was introduced to Watchmen from the movie I need to ask: What sort of people was it made for?
    People that haven't read the book? General audiences.


    The actual material is so solid that, even without understanding it at all, the story put up on screen is still complex and interesting. Just... the director missed the point so its not quite the same story, even though on the surface it seems to be.
    To support Viz hosting all Jump manga for FREE and day of release, Arlong Park will now support the official release.
    https://www.viz.com/shonenjump

    Official chapter discussions now start Sundays at Noon, EST.
    Please do not post threads when scan sites release their version, and just discuss those releases in the spoiler thread.

  9. #5429

    Default Re: Western Comics thread

    I never much enjoyed Alan Moores works. Too grim and up it's own ass. Dude might be brilliant but i'll take fun comic dudes who enjoy telling simple stories like Stan Sakai any day over the brooding deconstructionist stuff

  10. #5430

    Default Re: Western Comics thread

    I'm not a big fan of Moore myself. I appreciate the brilliance at work but its largely not my thing.

    Even though I've read a lot of his stuff now.

    Swamp THing stuff was brilliant especially but I'll never re-read it.
    To support Viz hosting all Jump manga for FREE and day of release, Arlong Park will now support the official release.
    https://www.viz.com/shonenjump

    Official chapter discussions now start Sundays at Noon, EST.
    Please do not post threads when scan sites release their version, and just discuss those releases in the spoiler thread.

  11. #5431

    Default Re: Western Comics thread

    Moore is to much of a grinch to anyone be enamored with his works for much time.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




  12. #5432

    Default Re: Western Comics thread

    Marvel 2005-2018: too many mutants means it will dillute the franchise, gotta keep them in the hundreds otherwise it will break the Marvel Universe also there are a lot of Inhumans now also this has nothing to do with movie rights how dare you

    Marvel early 2019: *gets X-Men rights officially back*

    Marvel July 2019: actually there are a gazillion trillion mutants on Earth what can you do *shrugs*

  13. #5433

    Default Re: Western Comics thread

    Quote Originally Posted by pariston_hill View Post
    Moore is to much of a grinch to anyone be enamored with his works for much time.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Most i've ever enjoyed Moore was in that in the search of Steve Ditko documentary. And even then he is kind of a downer. Funny how i very much enjoy Ditko tho, despite him being a cantankerous old grump. Oh well time to sit down with my brand new issue of Usagi Yojimbo and cleans my palette of all of this Alan Moore Frank Miller crapsackery

  14. #5434

    Default Re: Western Comics thread

    Quote Originally Posted by desa View Post
    Watchmen

    So I know several/many think of the movie as bad of the comic. I am wondering what makes it a bad for you and what makes the different endings problematic to you?
    I remember thinking the movie was really good when I first saw it but years later I've re-read the comic a few times, rewatched the movie some and my opinion of the movie lessens more and more as more time goes on.

    Robby hit a lot of what I think about it, but one thing he doesn't really hit on is one of the absolute biggest things to me.

    It's the ending, but no it's not the squid.

    Spoiler here for anyone who hasn't seen or read EITHER. I really don't want to spoil the comic for someone who actually wants to go back and read it so I'm spoiler tagging this:

    Spoiler:
    It's revealed in the end That Adrian Veidt/Ozymandias orchestrated a fake attack on New York City (And other places in the movie) that kills a shitload of innocents and gives the world a new antagonist they can rally behind in an effort to stop the perpetual cold war this alternate world is stuck in. Adrian succeeds and everyone agrees what he did was horrible. Even Adrian on some level does as he asks John later if he did the right thing.

    At the end however the characters have a disagreement of sorts about what to do NEXT. What Veidt did was monstrous but now that it's done and can't be undone, what is the best course of action moving forward? Most agree it's to not tell the world and allow the ruse to happen so that peace can happen but Rorschach disagrees. To him, Veidt is a monster and needs to be exposed. Dr. Manhattan kills him to protect the secret.

    We find out in literally the last shot that Rorchach mailed his Journal to this universe's Breitbart, so the ruse will be exposed but the main characters don't know that. The story leaves you to ponder which is the right course of action. It's not REALLY supposed to take a side here. Everyone is treated like kindof a piece of shit except kind of Night Owl. Rorschach is a smelly bigotted garbage person, Manhattan is detached and cold etc. So the book kinda leaves you to make your own conclusion here.

    The Movie however, makes Rorchach's death more pronounced and has Night Owl witness it and go on an unhinged rant at Veidt right after. Basically, instead of respecting the reader and asking them to think about who was right, the movie just tells you Rorchach was right. I mean, the movie spends most of its runtime glorifying Rorschach as a whole actually which is pretty awful.

    I mean, Rorchach was a brutal satire of Randian Objectivist Steve Ditko's Randian Objectivist The Question. I wonder why Zack Snyder would miss the satire and glorify him so heavily. It's a Mystery.
    Switch Friend Code: SW-1795-2519-1884 Click Here to check out my Twitch Channel[/CENTER]

  15. #5435

    Default Re: Western Comics thread

    TH3R3 15 N0 5QU1D!

    Anyway. I'm done being dumb.

  16. #5436

    Default Re: Western Comics thread

    Question, which do you prefer Marvel or D.C.

    I'm only talking about comic books though! no movies, tv shows or animated series

  17. #5437

    Default Re: Western Comics thread

    Follow up on the Watchmen question from a month ago. I just found this video, it does a good job of explaining the weaknesses.



    It even proves my point on this.
    Its one of those things where if someone had access to all the footage they did, all the dailies, and used different takes, and had a different editor run over the exact same footage and the exact same dialogue and paced and cut it just a bit differently, used different music, emphasized and de-emphasized a few things differently, it might have been superb. But instead we have a deconstruction that thinks its playing the story straight.
    It re-edits just whats there (not even using alternate takes or raw footage or new footage, just final movie footage) and edits it better, both as a film AND truer to the comic.
    Last edited by Robby; August 11th, 2019 at 12:44 AM.
    To support Viz hosting all Jump manga for FREE and day of release, Arlong Park will now support the official release.
    https://www.viz.com/shonenjump

    Official chapter discussions now start Sundays at Noon, EST.
    Please do not post threads when scan sites release their version, and just discuss those releases in the spoiler thread.

  18. #5438

    Default Re: Western Comics thread

    Been reading the most recent arcs of the main Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles comics. Great stuff.

    Was unsure about Hickman's X-men run at first but I'm liking it more. Or, at least I want to know where it's going. Still, I can't shake the feeling it's walking a thin line between insightful and pretentious.

    NNID: jervinnectar

  19. #5439

    Default Re: Western Comics thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Nectar View Post
    Been reading the most recent arcs of the main Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles comics. Great stuff.

    Was unsure about Hickman's X-men run at first but I'm liking it more. Or, at least I want to know where it's going. Still, I can't shake the feeling it's walking a thin line between insightful and pretentious.
    I liked Mirage's TMNT a lot. If you have any sentimentality for the 90s cartoon, the Archie comics are also very entertaining.

  20. #5440

    Default Re: Western Comics thread

    LOL I was just catching up with Angel!

    Spoiler:
    Fred says "You'll need the help of a Gun" And I'm thinking to myself, what sort of gun can stop the apocalypse? Then I turn the page and they show Charles Gunn, and I'm like awwwww that makes more sense!

+ Reply to Thread

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 3 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 3 guests)

     

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts