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Thread: Cowboy Bebop

  1. #41

    Default Re: Cowboy Bebop

    Quote Originally Posted by Malintex_Terek View Post
    What do you want me to say? "Cowboy Bebop is overrated, it's actually a really generic space anime and people only like it because it was their first "deep" show?"

    I know better than that, and you do as well. Don't shrug off giving me a proper response, address me directly if you believe Bebop to truely be worth defending against a skeptic. You might just convince me to watch it - Carter was the one who got me to give FLCL another chance.
    It was the blathering on about intuitional experience .

    I don't really care.

    If you havn't seen it, you havn't seen it.
    This has very little to do with Bebop and more to do with how little patience I have for people talking about things they havn't seen like they...well, have. You went beyond simply saying "Eh, dosen't look like my cup of tea" into thesis mode, which was really just pointless. Especially musing about the ending as no big deal.

    I'm not denying its overated. But simply writing something off as nostolgia loved, or flat out saying thats the reason its held in high regard at all (lol Tonykun) is every bit a non-arguement as my first response.
    Its Ad Hominem crap unless youv'e got actual mass sightings of seeing 20 somethings re-watch it and be dissapointed.

    Bebop came and went for me already, but bad reasons to write stuff off, I still have a low place for that in my heart.


  2. #42
    Gomu Gomu No Murder Taleran's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cowboy Bebop

    Quote Originally Posted by Malintex_Terek View Post
    Don't tell me you've never heard of "SPIKE DIES"?



    its not that its deep or not deep, but dumbing down such a massive event into 2 words is well ludicrious.

  3. #43

    Default Re: Cowboy Bebop

    The biggest problem is your classing it with FLCL and EVA in the "bullshit psuedo intellectual vague religous symbols deeep" hype catagory.

    I can't recall anyone, hypeman, critic, fanboy, anyone who would call it deep.

    Its purely wonderfully done style and character sketchs.

    Its David Bowie not Tool.


  4. #44

    Default Re: Cowboy Bebop

    Last time I checked, Outlaw Star is no where close to the greatness of Cowboy Bebop.

  5. #45
    エッチなのはいけないと思います! Malintex_Terek's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cowboy Bebop

    Quote Originally Posted by Zephos View Post
    If you havn't seen it, you havn't seen it.
    Ridiculous. That's as elitist a comment as I've seen you say. Ever.

    I'm not going to make the assertion that, "well, people make assumptions all the time about a series, therefore it is OK to do that". What I'm saying is, I've had a taste of Bebop and I've been around the block before. I'm pretty sure the series isn't what people say it is, and even it it was it's not my cup of tea anyway. My opinion could change, of course, but I'm pretty sure I'm right in this and everyone else here is just influenced by nostalgia.

    Getting me to watch twenty six episodes of a series I don't think is very good, only with the possible result of me saying, "well, I was right, it wasn't that great" will just have the people here go, "GTFO troll".

    Now that's plain rude.

    I still haven't forgotten SetaGinny threatening to ban people for bashing Eva simply because they "didn't see it when it was innovative" or something along those lines. It's that kind of stubborness that really grates me, especially when people don't realize it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zephos View Post
    This has very little to do with Bebop and more to do with how little patience I have for people talking about things they havn't seen like they...well, have. You went beyond simply saying "Eh, dosen't look like my cup of tea" into thesis mode, which was really just pointless. Especially musing about the ending as no big deal.
    It's not a big deal, in fact it seems like a rather forced, rushed ending.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zephos View Post
    I'm not denying its overated. But simply writing something off as nostolgia loved, or flat out saying thats the reason its held in high regard at all (lol Tonykun) is every bit a non-arguement as my first response.
    I'm not writing if off because I think people are too nostalgic, I think the praise for Bebop even now is excessive because people are too unwilling to write off their nostalgia. When I see the series, I'll evaluate it for how entertaining it is, not because it was "innovative" or "mah first animu" or something along those lines, which apparently some people consider "essential" to enjoying the show.

    No offense to the fans, but if Bebop has to be my first show for me to enjoy it, then frankly it's not worth watching right now. Might as well be Pokemon or Flint the Time Detective or something along those lines.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zephos View Post
    Its Ad Hominem crap unless youv'e got actual mass sightings of seeing 20 somethings re-watch it and be dissapointed.
    I frequent another, calmer forum than AP and there are five or so regulars in the anime category. One saw Bebop when it came out, the other three saw it last year, the year before, and three years prior, respectively. None of them were nearly as impressed as the first, who went out of his way to go to Canada to have Wendee Lee sign his DVD box of the first season (she was visiting a convention there).

    Notice the disparity?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zephos View Post
    The biggest problem is your classing it with FLCL and EVA in the "bullshit psuedo intellectual vague religous symbols deeep" hype catagory.
    That wasn't my intent, and I'm sorry. I just meant to contrast it with something "shallow" that doesn't touch on character development.

    Maybe we should use DEEP to refer to what you're talking about.
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  6. #46

    Default Re: Cowboy Bebop

    Quote Originally Posted by Malintex_Terek View Post
    Ridiculous. That's as elitist a comment as I've seen you say. Ever.
    Yes, it's totally elitist to tell someone who hasn't seen a series that they haven't seen a series... o.O

    If you don't have any interest in watching a show, fine, there's plenty that I don't even want to give a try, but in that case there's nothing that one can say about the series that can be taken seriously other than "sorry, never saw it". Anything else is just talking out your ass for the heck of it.

    It's just an anime. A very entertaining one, but you aren't going to have some kind of epiphany or life changing experience watching it. Though someone told me Akira was like that. I didn't much care for Akira but I'm glad I saw it anyway.

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  7. #47

    Default Re: Cowboy Bebop

    Ridiculous. That's as elitist a comment as I've seen you say. Ever.
    *to Cosmic post*

    I'm not going to make the assertion that, "well, people make assumptions all the time about a series, therefore it is OK to do that". What I'm saying is, I've had a taste of Bebop and I've been around the block before.
    You watched the movie and liked it.
    And saw the first episode in a series that changes tone every episode.

    I'm pretty sure the series isn't what people say it is, and even it it was it's not my cup of tea anyway.
    What do people say it is? Deep?

    My opinion could change, of course, but I'm pretty sure I'm right in this and everyone else here is just influenced by nostalgia.
    You do raelize your coomiting the classic "The fans suck, so the series must." logic mistake?

    Getting me to watch twenty six episodes of a series I don't think is very good, only with the possible result of me saying, "well, I was right, it wasn't that great" will just have the people here go, "GTFO troll".
    I'm suprised you would think of us that way.

    I still haven't forgotten SetaGinny threatening to ban people for bashing Eva simply because they "didn't see it when it was innovative" or something along those lines. It's that kind of stubborness that really grates me, especially when people don't realize it.
    As someone who has bashed Eva for more ont his very forum, your going to have to bring up more than what a long missing mod did.

    It's not a big deal, in fact it seems like a rather forced, rushed ending.
    See, this is it. This is where your overstepping the "Dosen't look like my thing" line into crazy psychic critic mode. Do you know the context of the death? Do you know the amount of time spent on it? Do you know that its rushed? Do you know that its forced?
    I mean it is forshadowed in about 10 episodes, including the first.

    No offense to the fans, but if Bebop has to be my first show for me to enjoy it, then frankly it's not worth watching right now. Might as well be Pokemon or Flint the Time Detective or something along those lines.
    Who is saying "its really good ebcause its the first I saw"?

    I frequent another, calmer forum than AP and there are five or so regulars in the anime category. One saw Bebop when it came out, the other three saw it last year, the year before, and three years prior, respectively. None of them were nearly as impressed as the first, who went out of his way to go to Canada to have Wendee Lee sign his DVD box of the first season (she was visiting a convention there).
    Notice the disparity?
    Three is a mass?


  8. #48

    Default Re: Cowboy Bebop

    I still haven't forgotten SetaGinny threatening to ban people for bashing Eva simply because they "didn't see it when it was innovative" or something along those lines. It's that kind of stubborness that really grates me, especially when people don't realize it.
    i am detecting some irony


  9. #49
    Jay_n_SilentNOOB Jay_n_Silentbob's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cowboy Bebop

    Bickering aside, Cowboy Bebop is arguably my favorite anime (some others come close). And I can't say it's from nostalgia, since no one I knew at the time even heard of anime. It was however, one of my first, but I doubt this is why I think it's so excellent. It's just that no other anime has ever done so much to make the animation, story, characters and music (especially the music) synergize like they did in Bebop. IMO (Of course).

    Quote Originally Posted by Malintex_Terek
    I frequent another, calmer forum than AP and there are five or so regulars in the anime category. One saw Bebop when it came out, the other three saw it last year, the year before, and three years prior, respectively. None of them were nearly as impressed as the first, who went out of his way to go to Canada to have Wendee Lee sign his DVD box of the first season (she was visiting a convention there).

    Notice the disparity?
    I don't know if I'm as die hard as that guy; to go to Canada just to get something signed...But then again, I wouldn't do that with any anime I've seen yet (and probably ever)...

    Quote Originally Posted by CosmicDebris
    It's just an anime.
    Agreed.
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  10. #50

    Default Re: Cowboy Bebop

    terex, would you like some green eggs and ham.

  11. #51
    knife to the eye Strange_One's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cowboy Bebop

    Quote Originally Posted by Malintex_Terek View Post
    I've never seen Cowboy Bebop beyond the first episode
    but I never understood why it recieved so much credit for "showing adults cartoons can be for older kids as well"
    Tell me, Terek, could you judge One Piece by the first ep and a movie or two? The fact that your viewing has been so limited contributes quite a bit to the fact that you don't think highly of the series. I don't care how much anime you've seen or how keen your animu-senses are, Bebop is something truly amazing and original, one of the few standouts I've seen over the years.

    Yes, it was the first 'adult'-oriented 'cartoon' many saw, but that doesn't stop it from still holding its place among the top seinen. Plainly, it's lovely.

    And hoooow the hell someone could like this less than OS escapes me. I'm a fan of both but there's a huge gap in animation quality, originality in character designs, writing, music...

    edit: how the heck is him saying "if you haven't seen it, you haven't seen it" elitist? Are you really someone to point the finger, Terek?

    edit again: And If my first anime were my favorites, I'd be here praising DBZ, Pokemon, YGO, Inuyasha, and Speed Racer. Which I'm not.

    Though I still love Totoro the same as I did when I was 6 >.>
    Last edited by Strange_One; September 4th, 2007 at 03:18 PM.

  12. #52

    Default Re: Cowboy Bebop

    Bebop is what got me into anime, and still in my top five anime, along with FLCL and a couple of other amazing Super Robots.

    The music was absolutely amazing, I've got three soundtracks, and Blue and Tank! are two of my favorite Japanese songs.

  13. #53
    エッチなのはいけないと思います! Malintex_Terek's Avatar
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    Default gah, bloody adware.

    Quote Originally Posted by CosmicDebris View Post
    Yes, it's totally elitist to tell someone who hasn't seen a series that they haven't seen a series... o.O
    Eh, not quite what I was going for.

    It's acting like I'm a total idiot because I haven't seen a series and pretending I can't make a good evaluation after having seen a little of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by CosmicDebris View Post
    If you don't have any interest in watching a show, fine, there's plenty that I don't even want to give a try, but in that case there's nothing that one can say about the series that can be taken seriously other than "sorry, never saw it".
    I made a comment that Bebop was good but "not all that" and got some cheek from Zephos, which is the same kind of rebuffing I've noiced from other Bebop fans abroad. I don't know why some folk seem to be so aggressive when it comes to criticism of this show, especially when Trigun and Evangelion, arguably "firsts" for other people, get knocked down the stairs by the same people who are defending Bebop. Most likely it's because the series is good, but I find it hypocritical to bash people who have nostalgia for those shows while treating Bebop differently.

    A note that I am not talking about AP in particular, just general comments from the number of communities I frequent/used to frequent before getting banned. I'm not trying to insult anyone here, let's try to keep the discussion on the lighter side of serious.

    Back on topic, that's what I find irritating - some folks who are quite clearly very nostalgic about this title, but won't admit it, and get angry when someone starts to talk trash about their holy grail. Not like a certain fanbase in the spotlight right now.

    As someone on ANN once told me, the best kind of show is the kind that can take a lot of criticism by fans and yet still be considered great. One Piece is no exception, so I don't see why Bebop should be.

    Quote Originally Posted by CosmicDebris View Post
    It's just an anime. A very entertaining one, but you aren't going to have some kind of epiphany or life changing experience watching it.
    I thank you, that was the kind of response I was looking for.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zephos
    And saw the first episode in a series that changes tone every episode.
    For me at least, that shouldn't make much difference. You reminded me I saw more than the first episode (which for some reason I confused with the third -_-) and I didn't really notice very noticeable colour changes. It was pretty much the same to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zephos
    What do people say it is? Deep?
    Descriptions include,

    1. Greatest Anime of all Time (half joke...)
    2. Laid back.
    3. Intense action.
    4. Strong character drama.

    Bebop fits two~four in my opinion, and it does so quite well, but I don't see why two~four equate to one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zephos
    You do raelize your coomiting the classic "The fans suck, so the series must." logic mistake?
    Considering the hype comes exclusively from the fans, I wouldn't be surprised. But I don't think that's the case for two reasons - the first is I try to not make that mistake out of respect for a show's creators, and the second is I actually did like what I saw of Bebop. I'm just saying it's not "best anime of all time" material.

    I did say I saw the movie, found it entertaining/interesting, but best anime ever? The subject at hand isn't whether or not I enjoyed it, and even if such was the case I'm telling people I did, but the exaggerated praise that comes from the fans who I think are just a little intoxicated in memories.

    I once had an MS Paint comic from Yotsuba regarding a simmilar issue, I only wish I had it to show you all now. It involved three stick figures discussing anime - the first goes, "Bleach"? The other two go, "Are they still on Namek"? and "shik sucks". The middle one goes, "Naruto"? His companions respond, "THAT jutsu"? and "shik sucks". The final one goes, "One Piece"? and one of the two goes, "lol, set fail". The other two proceed to bash his face in, cursing and chiding him for insulting the final anime.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zephos
    As someone who has bashed Eva f[a]r more on- his very forum, yo[u're] going to have to bring up more than what a long missing mod did.
    Please clarify, I'm not sure what you mean.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zephos
    Do you know the context of the death? Do you know the amount of time spent on it? Do you know that its rushed? Do you know that its forced?
    I know that it involved Spike making a fateful decision to go back and fight Vicious and that it was spurred by Spike not letting go of his past. Which, quite frankly, is what I think draws a lot of people to the ending and part of the reason I think it's rather silly - Spike's unwillingness to move on despite having found a "new life" is his tragic character flaw.

    Why do I find it silly? Beyond simply hating that kind of character trait, the whole Vicious conveniently resurfaced in the last few episodes, with the only indicator of what was happening far earlier in the series (in one of the episodes I saw, in fact).

    Quote Originally Posted by Zephos
    I mean it is forshadowed in about 10 episodes, including the first.
    Unless the forshadowing was painfully obvious, I don't think I would have gotten it without watching the series on end. That's not really something you can punt at someone who is basically watching it for the first time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zephos
    Who is saying "its really good ebcause its the first I saw"?
    Nobody here. I'm just using this opportunity to vent some feelings about Bebop and the fans in general, it's not exclusive to AP. I'm sorry if it felt like I was putting words in your mouth.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zephos
    Three is a mass?
    No, it's a crowd.

    But, I felt the need to bring up the Loki incident because he typifies the difference between people who watched Bebop in Y2K/01 and those who watch it later.

    Quote Originally Posted by taboo
    i am detecting some irony
    <- irony_master_(have_written_over_2000+_ironic_posts _last: this_one)

    ...

    In all humour, I know I'm biased and I know I can get petulant at times, but I try to understand how other people feel about a series knowing full well their experiences will be different from mine.

    Case in point, I spent the last month goading and guiding one of my friends on another forum into playing Ever17 and he's a diehard Kanon fan. I pitched it as "the best game I have ever played" (and suffice to say, it is) to try and lure him away from Kanon and like Ever17 more. He still prefers Kanon (which was his first tragic romance/drama) so I have failed, but I don't feel bad about it and he's pretty OK with me chiding Kanon as well.

    It's a climate of good feelings fanboys/fangirls should embrace rather than setting everything on fire.

    Quote Originally Posted by captain usopp
    terex, would you like some green eggs and ham.
    If you mean to offer green eggs and ham, you are a liar, cappy-tan.

    Though in all seriousness, I don't eat pigs and prefer me eggs scrambled well. No salt please.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. All Sunday
    The music was absolutely amazing, I've got three soundtracks, and Blue and Tank! are two of my favorite Japanese songs.
    My sister's a big fan of Bebop's music, but after seven years as a Jazz musician I never got hooked on it.
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  14. #54
    Gomu Gomu No Murder Taleran's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cowboy Bebop

    hey Terek weren't you the exact same way when Gurren Lagann started?

  15. #55

    Default Re: Cowboy Bebop

    Ha ha, he completely was

    I'd call him out on being a simpering little eunuch like I did when he was whining about how "FAIL" GL was after having seen some promotional artwork, but I don't do encores and he's not worth the time in the first place

  16. #56
    エッチなのはいけないと思います! Malintex_Terek's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cowboy Bebop

    Quote Originally Posted by Taleran View Post
    hey Terek weren't you the exact same way when Gurren Lagann started?
    Akagi too. That's why I made sure to cite experience first - I've been in this situation before and it's customary to approach with skepticism in the beginning. I mean, the last show I was enthusiastic about from the start was GEASS and...well, I'm sure everyone knows how that old horse went out to pasture.

    But this situation isn't exactly the same. I've seen a heck of a lot more of Bebop than Akagi and Gurren-Lagann when I "started out" to to say, and both those titles hooked me within the first few minutes and I've yet to get on the Bebop train.

    I'm thinking about downloading the episodes that don't mention Vicious, since everything involving him is rather boring to me and I'd rather enjoy the "Outlaw Star-is" bounty hunt hopping deal that makes Bebop seem to fly by the seat of its pants (note: this is a good thing in this context).
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  17. #57

    Default Re: Cowboy Bebop

    Didn't you say before you only saw the first episode? And are you saying you are gonna skip episodes that include the villain?

  18. #58
    エッチなのはいけないと思います! Malintex_Terek's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cowboy Bebop

    Quote Originally Posted by Buuhan1 View Post
    Didn't you say before you only saw the first episode? And are you saying you are gonna skip episodes that include the villain?
    Vicious doesn't particulary interest me. And I was mistaken when I said I only saw the first episode, I'd forgotten I'd seen other ones as well. Most of them were out of order I think. Here's what I can gather-

    I saw

    1. The episode with the crack sniffer.
    2. The episode where Ein was introduced.
    3. The episode with the poker chip.
    4. The episode where Ed was introduced.
    5. The episode with Jet and the quest for his old friend.
    6. The episode where Spike fights Vicious for the first time.
    7. The episode where we learn of Spike's past and Julia.
    8. The episode after Fae is introduced with the monkeys.
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  19. #59
    Gomu Gomu No Murder Taleran's Avatar
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    Default Re: Cowboy Bebop

    I agree that the episodes with Vicious

    I always found them weaker, probably because I didn't like Vicious as a character or as a villain

  20. #60

    Default Re: Cowboy Bebop

    If you mean to offer green eggs and ham, you are a liar, cappy-tan.
    CAPTAIN USOPP IS NO LIAR! :P

    I like the point though about vicios. The series, lightly dabbled on the whole vicios story, and then threw it all in your face at the end. I think that was a big thing that bugged me about CB. Though it's still a decient anime in my book.

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