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Thread: Regarding kairouseki-bullets and DF-users

  1. #21

    Default Re: Regarding kairouseki-bullets and DF-users

    Quote Originally Posted by Raphael Aleixo
    The big question for me is: How can smoker turn his staff to smoke, when it have kariouseki?
    I guess since its in the tip its in a concentrated area only so its not really in any direct contact with his body. and from the looks of it DF users are only drained when they come in contact with it physically.


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  2. #22
    POE WUN BGR Greg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Regarding kairouseki-bullets and DF-users

    Yo, if Usopp managed to do that, he'd become an unholy warrior. That is an excellent idea mate. Although Oda may not take it in that direction, it's a helluva good idea.

  3. #23

    Default Re: Regarding kairouseki-bullets and DF-users

    It's part of the ensemble, just as Luffy's clothes stretch so that we don't get a peak at little Luffy, or Choppers magical hat. It's just the cartoony way of keeping the characters in their look. ($400 dollar haircuts, perfectly ironed shirts, etc)

  4. #24

    Default Re: Regarding kairouseki-bullets and DF-users

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenechi
    What. Enel is permentantly lightning. he fell asleep, and was getting hit. He wasn't concentrating one bit. If you lot are thinking that Logia need to concentrate because of when Luffy hit Smoker in the back, you are wrong. His Sea Stone Sword just hit him in the back at the same time, making it possible for Luffy to have hit him.
    Here's what I posted in another thread about the Luffy/Ener comparison:

    We've seen that underwater, Luffy's powers are still active; as you said, it doesn't make him any less rubber, it's just that he can't control his ability anymore. Now, we've also seen that the seastone used by Wiper made Enel vulnerable to physical attacks.

    So if lightning was the default form of Enel's body like rubber is for Luffy's, seastone would have just stopped him from moving, but wouldn't have changed anything to the structure of his body, the reject blow would have just went through him without harming him in any way.

    My guess is that seastone just prevented Enel from using his powers, making him unable to turn his physical body into lightning, like Luffy was unable to stretch his limbs by himself when he was underwater. Hence the proof that Logia users aren't permanently immune to physical attacks, but must have some kind of control over their powers to turn into that state.

  5. #25

    Default Re: Regarding kairouseki-bullets and DF-users

    wow.. That was the best explanation i've seen thus far Aldrich, we should record posts like that for a sticky ^^.

  6. #26

    Default Re: Regarding kairouseki-bullets and DF-users

    Thanks . I try...

  7. #27

    Default Re: Regarding kairouseki-bullets and DF-users

    Quote Originally Posted by Hunky Dory
    Only the tip of Smoker's sword is the made out of Seastone and also after he got hit by Luffy he flew right into and hit a suprised Ace through the wall.

    Eneru was awake before he got stabbed through the head and was able to react so quickly because of his mantra. http://groups.msn.com/onepiecemanga/...o&PhotoID=5061 Next page is when he gets stabbed.

    Unlike all the other Logias Ao Kiji is a solid, or atleast more solid than sand, electricity, fire, and smoke. Luffy's kick probably was not strong enough to shatter him, but stilll not damaging him. Right here he gets hit with Gomu Gomu Burette (Bullet), but also did not shatter. http://groups.msn.com/onepiecemangav...o&PhotoID=1435

    As for Luffy getting hurt by Seastone Bullets, for that split second when the bullet comes in contact with Luffy will lose control of his powers, but will still be able to bounce the bullet back. The only way a Seastone Bullet would penetrate Luffy is with a really sharp one. Seastone Bullets should be able to hurt any other Devil Fruit user.
    Only the tip? The whole sword is made of Sea Stone. And That guy had been attacking Enel for 5 minutes before he woke up. And about the seastone bullet thing, it's weird. Luffy was still Rubber underwater but When Enel and Smoker are touched by the Seastone, they stop being Nature.

    And Aokiji didn't shatter, because he turned himself into ice, and Luffy isn't stong enough to break the strongest man in the Marines with a punch. I guess Robin can, with her hand things, though. Not that it matters.

  8. #28

    Default Re: Regarding kairouseki-bullets and DF-users

    Quote Originally Posted by Aldrich
    Here's what I posted in another thread about the Luffy/Ener comparison:

    We've seen that underwater, Luffy's powers are still active; as you said, it doesn't make him any less rubber, it's just that he can't control his ability anymore. Now, we've also seen that the seastone used by Wiper made Enel vulnerable to physical attacks.

    So if lightning was the default form of Enel's body like rubber is for Luffy's, seastone would have just stopped him from moving, but wouldn't have changed anything to the structure of his body, the reject blow would have just went through him without harming him in any way.

    My guess is that seastone just prevented Enel from using his powers, making him unable to turn his physical body into lightning, like Luffy was unable to stretch his limbs by himself when he was underwater. Hence the proof that Logia users aren't permanently immune to physical attacks, but must have some kind of control over their powers to turn into that state.
    But Nature is the default form, as shown by Enel getting attacked while sleeping, and staying as Lightning.

  9. #29
    Discovered Stowaway lpzie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Regarding kairouseki-bullets and DF-users

    Did Enel really get attacked while sleeping? Since this is the point you keep falling back to, I wanna see this. I don't recall him doing this.

  10. #30

    Default Re: Regarding kairouseki-bullets and DF-users

    Nature isn't the default form, Smoker and Ace prove this while eating at the pub.
    If Smokers sword was entirely Kairoseki, he would not be able to weild it even by the hilt, because if he accidentally brushed against it during a fight, he'd screw himself.
    And Luffy is DEFINATELY strong enough to shatter ice, Ao Koji couldn't have turned into ice, he must have used his own stomach muscles to stop Luffy. He can still control cold without turning into Ice, as can all Logia users, thus he couldn't have turned into ice because Luffy would have very likely shattered the ice and not given Ao Koji a chance to freeze him (not that shattering him repeatedly would even put a dent him him/tire him out).

    Also the reason why Robin probably shattered him, because as she explained with all those arms, she could bend steel, thus the only way for even the most powerful man to escape them is if he is a logia let them pass through him. Which explains why he turned his body into ice, so that he could escape them (give Robin some credit, she is Crocodiles equivelant, she could overpower AoKoji but not defeat his DF).
    He could have also frozen her hands, but I suspect he really wasn't aggressive at first until she started attacking.

  11. #31

    Default Re: Regarding kairouseki-bullets and DF-users

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenechi
    Only the tip? The whole sword is made of Sea Stone. And That guy had been attacking Enel for 5 minutes before he woke up. And about the seastone bullet thing, it's weird. Luffy was still Rubber underwater but When Enel and Smoker are touched by the Seastone, they stop being Nature.

    And Aokiji didn't shatter, because he turned himself into ice, and Luffy isn't stong enough to break the strongest man in the Marines with a punch. I guess Robin can, with her hand things, though. Not that it matters.
    Here is where it says that only the tip is made out of Sea Stone. http://groups.msn.com/onepiecemanga/...o&PhotoID=3309

    You are right about Eneru being attacked for 5 minutes, which does not make nor will make sense to me. I still think that Logia's default form is physical.

    I know that Ao Kiji did not shatter I was telling Geese what I thought happened about this situation. http://groups.msn.com/onepiecemangav...o&PhotoID=1470

  12. #32

    Default Re: Regarding kairouseki-bullets and DF-users

    Quote Originally Posted by Hunky Dory
    Here is where it says that only the tip is made out of Sea Stone. http://groups.msn.com/onepiecemanga/...o&PhotoID=3309

    You are right about Eneru being attacked for 5 minutes, which does not make nor will make sense to me. I still think that Logia's default form is physical.

    I know that Ao Kiji did not shatter I was telling Geese what I thought happened about this situation. http://groups.msn.com/onepiecemangav...o&PhotoID=1470
    He said "The end of the club" not the tip. The end is anywhere from halfway. And Enel got attacked when he was asleep. You cannot replace your speculation with fact. The default form is Nature. And that has been proved by Enel. I dunno why you would bother argueing against it, when it is clearly there.

  13. #33

    Default Re: Regarding kairouseki-bullets and DF-users

    Quote Originally Posted by Refii
    Nature isn't the default form, Smoker and Ace prove this while eating at the pub.
    If Smokers sword was entirely Kairoseki, he would not be able to weild it even by the hilt, because if he accidentally brushed against it during a fight, he'd screw himself.
    And Luffy is DEFINATELY strong enough to shatter ice, Ao Koji couldn't have turned into ice, he must have used his own stomach muscles to stop Luffy. He can still control cold without turning into Ice, as can all Logia users, thus he couldn't have turned into ice because Luffy would have very likely shattered the ice and not given Ao Koji a chance to freeze him (not that shattering him repeatedly would even put a dent him him/tire him out).

    Also the reason why Robin probably shattered him, because as she explained with all those arms, she could bend steel, thus the only way for even the most powerful man to escape them is if he is a logia let them pass through him. Which explains why he turned his body into ice, so that he could escape them (give Robin some credit, she is Crocodiles equivelant, she could overpower AoKoji but not defeat his DF).
    He could have also frozen her hands, but I suspect he really wasn't aggressive at first until she started attacking.
    The hilt has bandages on it.

    You can clearly see Aokiji turn his body to ice where Luffy hit it. It's shinier than the rest of his body. Luffy was too weak to shatter it. He is the strongest man in the Marine HQ.

    When did Robin bend steel? Crocs equivelent? Not really. And she didn't overpower Aojiki. He wasn't fighting back when she broke him.

  14. #34
    Moderator Aokiji freedom's Avatar
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    Default Re: Regarding kairouseki-bullets and DF-users

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenechi
    But Nature is the default form, as shown by Enel getting attacked while sleeping, and staying as Lightning.
    If nature was the default form, then eneru would exist as lightening at all times. the very point that he is in human form and then converts shows there is at least some form of reflex action going on. we don't know how eneru's mantra works, for all we know, it works while he's asleep (IF he was even asleep).
    Many posters have already provided enough evidence to prove that luffy is permanently rubber and does not have to consciously become rubber, while logia users have to be conscious in some form to convert to their element. i don't know what other proof you require...
    WARNING (Explicit Dialog)!!

  15. #35
    Discovered Stowaway lpzie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Regarding kairouseki-bullets and DF-users

    Someone show me the picture where he's asleep.

    I don't recall this happening. I remember the 5 minute thing, but I thought he was talking the whole time while it happened.

  16. #36

    Default Re: Regarding kairouseki-bullets and DF-users

    This is a plot hole Kenechi, and quite frankly, there seems to be more proof for default mode being physical than nature (at least more often than not).

    Also Enel had mantra which as far as I know he CANNOT turn off (which is why the little girl couldn't turn it off either and she cried every time a voice was silenced). Thus he hears it in his sleep.

    Also: *lights please, starts slideshow*
    This shows us the area Luffy punches
    Now if Luffy had punched through the skin *sort to speak, he's a logia you know what i mean* those X areas should be ice as well, rather it seems Ao Koji is making cold Ice develop where Luffy has made contact with his body and it spreads outward.
    we see here the area has expanded despite the fact that Luffys punch has not inflicted any more impact thrust, meaning Ao Koji is controling the spread of the ice, rather than Luffy punching ice (now this isn't the punch you're refering to).
    just a couple of frames later to show the ice is spreading, not turning his body to ice. (well he is but.. you know what i mean in terms of DF ability, not Logia body.. -.-)

    I was going to make an animated gif, but I can't find the import folder as frames option anymore I dunno wtf happened anywayLuffy breaking ice
    blehAo Koji reforms as physical and spreads cold (I have to go watch lost can't post the next frame that shows he's physical not ice) but you get the point.

    It was the ice being spread not blah blah Lost bye sorry for the pics I know dial up etc

  17. #37
    Discovered Stowaway lpzie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Regarding kairouseki-bullets and DF-users

    LOST!!!! i'm gone!!

  18. #38

    Default Re: Regarding kairouseki-bullets and DF-users

    Quote Originally Posted by freedom
    If nature was the default form, then eneru would exist as lightening at all times. the very point that he is in human form and then converts shows there is at least some form of reflex action going on. we don't know how eneru's mantra works, for all we know, it works while he's asleep (IF he was even asleep).
    Many posters have already provided enough evidence to prove that luffy is permanently rubber and does not have to consciously become rubber, while logia users have to be conscious in some form to convert to their element. i don't know what other proof you require...
    He does exist as Lightning at all times. As shown by when he is sleeping. He doesnt "convert" as such, more like his body just takes the form of a human. And even if it works when he is sleeping, Enel said, "I will not move, attack or, or do anything". He didnt do anything, and he stayed as Lighting. And when he is asleep, how can he concentrate to turn himself into Lightning? That doesnt make sense.
    And just because some other users said it, with no proof, whatsoever, doesn't mean it's true. I'm actually giving proof, eg Enel sleeping, and Smokers Seastone Sword touching his back. What is more of a plothole is how Ace went through the wall with them, but I guess Logia users can touch each other, or something. Otherwise it makes no sense.

  19. #39

    Default Re: Regarding kairouseki-bullets and DF-users

    Quote Originally Posted by Refii
    This is a plot hole Kenechi, and quite frankly, there seems to be more proof for default mode being physical than nature (at least more often than not).

    Also Enel had mantra which as far as I know he CANNOT turn off (which is why the little girl couldn't turn it off either and she cried every time a voice was silenced). Thus he hears it in his sleep.

    Also: *lights please, starts slideshow*
    http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/7844/aokoji10tw.jpg This shows us the area Luffy punches
    http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/2703/aokoji29gi.jpgNow if Luffy had punched through the skin *sort to speak, he's a logia you know what i mean* those X areas should be ice as well, rather it seems Ao Koji is making cold Ice develop where Luffy has made contact with his body and it spreads outward.
    http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/2240/aokoji39xq.jpgwe see here the area has expanded despite the fact that Luffys punch has not inflicted any more impact thrust, meaning Ao Koji is controling the spread of the ice, rather than Luffy punching ice (now this isn't the punch you're refering to).
    http://img422.imageshack.us/img422/5152/aokoji40ii.jpgjust a couple of frames later to show the ice is spreading, not turning his body to ice. (well he is but.. you know what i mean in terms of DF ability, not Logia body.. -.-)

    I was going to make an animated gif, but I can't find the import folder as frames option anymore I dunno wtf happened anywayhttp://img232.imageshack.us/img232/5819/luffy22qh.jpgLuffy breaking ice
    http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/3075/luffy32wk.jpgblehhttp://img211.imageshack.us/img211/2872/luffy46qi.jpgAo Koji reforms as physical and spreads cold (I have to go watch lost can't post the next frame that shows he's physical not ice) but you get the point.

    It was the ice being spread not blah blah Lost bye sorry for the pics I know dial up etc
    Sorry, but I really don't get what you were trying to show with these pictures. Luffy breaking the Ice? He only broke Ice that wasn't attached to Aokiji. And please, show me the proof of the default form of being Physical. And if this was the proof, it shows that Luffy punched Aokiji, Aokiji's ice didn't break, and he made it spread to Luffy's hand, and Luffy's hand was still touching him. He can make and control ice, as long as it comes from his body, or is still part of his body, just like all Logia users. And he was spreading the ice all over his body? Nope, not in the manga. That's just filler. In the manga, after Luffy punchs him, Zoro and Sanji attack him, he catches their attacks, and then his hand turns to ice, and he freezes their arms. Thats all.

    There is still no proof that Logia users have a physical form, and your only defence against Enel is speculation. We don't know if he can use Mantra in his sleep or not, or if he, a master of it, can turn it on or off. You say they need to concentrate to become nature, but then Enel can do it in his sleep? Even though he promised not to attack, fight back, etc?

  20. #40

    Default Re: Regarding kairouseki-bullets and DF-users

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenechi
    He does exist as Lightning at all times. As shown by when he is sleeping. He doesnt "convert" as such, more like his body just takes the form of a human. And even if it works when he is sleeping, Enel said, "I will not move, attack or, or do anything". He didnt do anything, and he stayed as Lighting. And when he is asleep, how can he concentrate to turn himself into Lightning? That doesnt make sense.
    Your whole point is build on this argument of Ener sleeping. Sorry but it isn't convincing at all. Why wouldn't Enel be able to control his powers while sleeping? It may not make sense for you, but him being able to control his powers while his heart stopped to beat, hell the whole mantra idea, doesn't make any sense at all either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenechi
    Sorry, but I really don't get what you were trying to show with these pictures. Luffy breaking the Ice? He only broke Ice that wasn't attached to Aokiji.
    Are you serious? You're just in denial now. If Aokiji was permanently ice, Luffy's punch would have shattered his torso and Aokiji would have came back to his human shape later like when he got crushed by Robin's clutch. Instead, Luffy punched Aokiji's flesh, and then Aokiji created ice from his belly to freeze Luffy's arm.

    Btw, you're saying that people arguing against your opinion have no "proof", but you didn't adress my point about the Luffy/Ener comparison. Do you have something to contradict me or will you just come back with "nu uh, Ener was sleeping"?

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