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Thread: American Politics: So long Trump!

  1. #4581

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Quote Originally Posted by Demon Rin View Post
    Got my mail in ballot.

    Time to do my part.
    Woohoo!

    Honestly, I hope we have mail-voting every election. It's good for me as I'm scared of people and it means I don't have to deal with them.

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  2. #4582
    The Mad Moiselle BellisarioFaith's Avatar
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    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Quote Originally Posted by starlalilymoon View Post
    I know what the Republicans were doing back then. To me, I feel like you should not do what your opponents do to prove a point, but instead be the better person and just do your job is what I'm saying. Does that makes sense?
    What? No, it doesn't make sense. The Democrats aren't really doing much of anything that we know of, at least right now, because there's not much we can do. The Republicans do have the power to push this nomination through and fill the seat if they're really determined to (and they clearly are), hypocrisy be damned, and there's not much we can do to stop them. So what we're doing right now amounts to...angrily pointing out to the Republicans who are doing this that they're filthy hypocrites and urging them that, if they want to not be hypocrites, they shouldn't do it. All while knowing that, because they clearly don't give a shit about being hypocrites, most of them are going to do it anyway, and it's pretty likely that not enough will be swayed to do the right thing. Are you saying that not calling them out on their hypocrisy and passively letting them get away with it with no complaint or outcry is "being the better person" and "doing your job"? No. That's actually called "letting the opposition walk all over you".

    This is what others here have been pointing out for a long time: that, when the Republicans in power do something underhanded, the Democrats in power just scold them and wag their finger at them without actually doing anything about it, and if that's supposed to be some kind of effort to "be the bigger man", well, maybe that sounds like a lovely theory, but in practice, it doesn't work. If one side is willing to streamroll over the other to get what they want, and that other side isn't willing to do more than yell "Stop that!" over and over, the latter side is going to get steamrolled. It's possible to have a happy medium, to actually resist or counter unfairness and stand up to the other side in a way that doesn't involve sinking to their level. Calling someone else out for being a hypocrite and urging them not to be one is most certainly not sinking down to the level of the hypocrite themself.
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  3. #4583
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    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    What Faith is saying is absolutely true. The hypocrisy of the Republicans in this nomination is completely outrageous, and for Democrats to do anything but raise hell over it would be the very definition of impotence, the perfect example of our representatives not "doing their job". If this nomination goes through, but the Democrats win back the Senate and the White House, then the people will have every reason to push for the court to be expanded.

  4. #4584

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Quote Originally Posted by BellisarioFaith View Post
    What? No, it doesn't make sense. The Democrats aren't really doing much of anything that we know of, at least right now, because there's not much we can do. The Republicans do have the power to push this nomination through and fill the seat if they're really determined to (and they clearly are), hypocrisy be damned, and there's not much we can do to stop them. So what we're doing right now amounts to...angrily pointing out to the Republicans who are doing this that they're filthy hypocrites and urging them that, if they want to not be hypocrites, they shouldn't do it. All while knowing that, because they clearly don't give a shit about being hypocrites, most of them are going to do it anyway, and it's pretty likely that not enough will be swayed to do the right thing. Are you saying that not calling them out on their hypocrisy and passively letting them get away with it with no complaint or outcry is "being the better person" and "doing your job"? No. That's actually called "letting the opposition walk all over you".
    I guess I really see what you mean now. You mean the Republicans are being hypocrites by flip flopping on the decision they made four years ago right?

    I still think though you shouldn't do the same exact thing as what your opponents did though. Though I also think Democrats and Republicans should work together, but *both parties* refuse to work with the other and only want their side to win. It's frustrating. I do still feel like being the better person is not doing the exact same things that you accused your opponents of, and in a way, yes it feels like Democrats are being hypocritical too. Honestly, both sides are being hypocritical and not just Republicans. Republicans changing their decision of wanting not to elect a justice because election year and now flip flopping to do the opposite. Same goes for Democrats who wanted to fill in the seat, but now don't want to. Which *feels* hypocritical to me.

    Honestly, I really don't see Democrats in a high light along with Republicans. Both parties have honestly failed me. Democrats focus too much on saying they do things but not actually doing them, while Republicans refuse to change their platform and want to destroy stuff that's already been decided. Like Republicans are being counterintuitive and Democrats just virtue signaling but not providing actual change. Both sides don't want to work with each other and I hate it. Maybe that's why I see this situation different from where you are coming from. I do apperciate you explaining your way of thinking, it helps me understand more from what Democrats are doing even if I still disagree on it.

    This is what others here have been pointing out for a long time: that, when the Republicans in power do something underhanded, the Democrats in power just scold them and wag their finger at them without actually doing anything about it, and if that's supposed to be some kind of effort to "be the bigger man", well, maybe that sounds like a lovely theory, but in practice, it doesn't work. If one side is willing to streamroll over the other to get what they want, and that other side isn't willing to do more than yell "Stop that!" over and over, the latter side is going to get steamrolled. It's possible to have a happy medium, to actually resist or counter unfairness and stand up to the other side in a way that doesn't involve sinking to their level. Calling someone else out for being a hypocrite and urging them not to be one is most certainly not sinking down to the level of the hypocrite themself.
    Oh, I see. I don't know as I mentioned earlier it feels like both sides are now being hypocrites. Like to me acting like your opponent just doesn't do things better for me as I would never do that myself. Honestly, both parties should just work together, but bleh both sides honestly suck and refuse to do so, as mentioned previously. I honestly think Democrats could have went for a better approach where it didn't sound like they were acting like their opponents and going against what they said before. In a sense to me it feels hypocritical because they said one thing four years ago, but not want to say another thing because honestly it feels like they "don't want to lose". Feels like all of our government people make this out to be a game instead of actually doing their damn job. But yeah, hope I explained myself better in how I think about the situation.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Kirbycide View Post
    What Faith is saying is absolutely true. The hypocrisy of the Republicans in this nomination is completely outrageous, and for Democrats to do anything but raise hell over it would be the very definition of impotence, the perfect example of our representatives not "doing their job". If this nomination goes through, but the Democrats win back the Senate and the White House, then the people will have every reason to push for the court to be expanded.
    I honestly think the nomination should go through regardless. It should have went many years ago with Obama, and it should now. And no, I disagree I don't want the Supreme Court expanded, that's just stupid. Just because the justice is a conservative doesn't mean we have to change that by adding more justices to feel like you have to win and try to frame as the other side as some super enemy. That's just gonna look bad on Democrats.

    And with what Faith said, I see now that both sides are being hypocrites actually. Democrats are being hypocritical because they doing something different from a few years ago. In *both cases I think it was wrong not to fill in the justice because you hate your other side.* I now understand that Republicans are being hypocritical too in changing what they said a few years ago. So this time both sides are at fault and being hypocrites. Maybe we just have a different definition of hypocrite, as a hypocrite to me is someone saying one thing, but then changing what they say to something else to fit their motive and thinking they are right. And from my perspective it feels like both Democrats and Republicans are acting like this.

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  5. #4585
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    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    It might not be the most sensitive thing to say, but essentially all of life is exactly that: A game.

    Our preferences, our learned behaviors, our dreams and goals, our successes and failures, our relationships, our brains, our bodies, and even our very DNA are structured around playing a game. Competing for resources, and gambling those resources intelligently to bolster our chances of winning future resources. That is the way of life, and we are all caught up in this game whether we are having fun or not. And yes, lives are literally hanging in the balance of this game... which is why it is so important for us to realize that the game is actually a NONZERO SUM GAME.

    When we work to benefit each other, we all succeed a little more, provide a little more, and strengthen each other to provide greater benefits down the road. That is the fundamental difference between the liberal and the conservative mindset. Conservatives are convinced that the game is zero sum, that there is only a finite amount of resources for everyone, and that looking out for number one is the best way to ensure success. But progressive liberals realize that the resources which appear to be limited are actually far more abundant than any of us could ever truly need. By sharing those resources and pooling our knowledge and effort, we can even find ways to acquire new resources that were previously out of reach, and even reduce how many resources each of us needs not only to survive but to be comfortable and happy.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by starlalilymoon View Post
    And with what Faith said, I see now that both sides are being hypocrites actually. Democrats are being hypocritical because they doing something different from a few years ago. In *both cases I think it was wrong not to fill in the justice because you hate your other side.*
    What makes this argument particularly inane is that Democrats aren't holding up the nomination. There is literally nothing that they can do right now to stop it, so what is your point?

    You may think that you are being even-handed by "both sides"-ing, here. But really you are just falling right into the trap that the Republicans have laid for people who don't want to spend the effort to actually think through what is happening.
    Last edited by Kirbycide; October 9th, 2020 at 11:35 PM.

  6. #4586

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Quote Originally Posted by Kirbycide View Post
    It might not be the most sensitive thing to say, but essentially all of life is exactly that: A game.

    Our preferences, our learned behaviors, our dreams and goals, our successes and failures, our relationships, our brains, our bodies, and even our very DNA are structured around playing a game. Competing for resources, gambling those resources intelligently to bolster our chances of winning future resources. That is the way of life, and we are all caught up in this game whether we are having fun or not. And yes, lives are literally hanging in the balance of this game... which is why it is so important for us to realize that the game is actually a NONZERO SUM GAME.
    Oh, I see. Honestly this reminds me of this one YouTube video I seen a while back:



    When we work to benefit each other, we all succeed a little more, provide a little more, and strengthen each other to provide greater benefits down the road. That is the fundamental difference between the liberal and the conservative mindset. Conservatives are convinced that the game is zero sum, that there is only a finite amount of resources for everyone, and that looking out for number one is the best way to ensure success. But progressive liberals realize that the resources which appear to be limited are actually far more abundant than any of us could ever truly need. By sharing those resources and pooling our knowledge and effort, we can even find ways to acquire new resources that were previously out of reach, and even reduce how many resources each of us needs not only to survive but to be comfortable and happy.
    Well.... Democrats are not doing anything. They refuse to make a new Coronavirus bill package because it *doesn't have everything they wanted* or we could have had some police reform but Democrats again "refused to compromise with Republicans because they are not getting everything they wanted.* I feel like something is better than nothing, and honestly they had a chance for progress but they did nothing because it's either their way or the highway, and same goes both ways. So, honestly with your analogy both Democrats and Republicans are failing at this "game."

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  7. #4587
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    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    The Democratic House of Representatives had a coronavirus relief bill ready for the Senate to ratify months ago. What do you mean that the Democrats aren't doing anything? It's the Republicans who are refusing to cooperate.

  8. #4588

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Quote Originally Posted by Kirbycide View Post
    What makes this argument particularly inane is that Democrats aren't holding up the nomination. There is literally nothing that they can do right now to stop it, so what is your point?
    I mean by hypocrite is they are trying to tell Republicans not to do it, instead of being oki, here we go.

    You may think that you are being even-handed by "both sides"-ing, here. But really you are just falling right into the trap that the Republicans have laid for people who don't want to spend the effort to actually think through what is happening here.
    Not really. I'm just trying to see things for what they are without my own biases. I criticize both Democrats and Republicans.

    I used to believe Democrats were the "heroes" and the Republicans were the "villains," but over time I realized this is false. Democrats are not the heroes I thought they were and Republicans are really not as bad I was made to believe.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Kirbycide View Post
    The Democratic House of Representatives had a coronavirus relief bill ready for the Senate to ratify months ago. What do you mean that the Democrats aren't doing anything? It's the Republicans who are refusing to cooperate.
    Well, yes, Republicans did not want to do the bill back in the summer which was stupid and annoying. But now Republicans do want to do the bill, but just not the same amount of money as Democrats. It's less than that, but it's better than nothing. And Democrats don't want to agree to disagree in wanting to pass a bill that *doesn't have everything they want.* In life we can't get everything we want, but it's better to get something than nothing at all. So, now it's just a stand-still with no side wanting to change and compromise.

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  9. #4589
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    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Or... maybe you're just being a fool for the ridiculous story that the Republicans are feeding you?

    They want you to think that they are not as bad as they really are, that should be obvious.

    And they want you to think that the Democrats only bloviate without accomplishing anything, because that makes you lose faith in their opposition.

    There are only two reasons why Democratic legislators have been unable to get much done in the last four years. And their names are Mitch McConnell and Donald Trump.

  10. #4590

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    I honestly just want America to progress, but the government is the problem. Honestly, I feel like we should fire everyone in the government and hire new people and get rid of political parties. Political parties are honestly the death of this country and it feels like we never gonna change. I'm just sick of it.

    And while Europe and other countries have their universal healthcare, living wages, free colleges, etc. We have nothing but just getting worse. Though Republicans are more at fault with this, Democrats are a little at fault to me because when there's a chance for compromise they fail at it.

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  11. #4591
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    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    If the Republicans actually wanted to pass a coronavirus relief bill, then why hasn't the Senate done their job, modified the bill passed by the House, voted on it, and sent it back to the House to be ratified?

    That's how our government is supposed to work, and how we are supposed to reach a consensus, even when the parties don't agree with each other.

    Instead, the Senate hasn't even attempted to look at the bill. Doesn't that seem like one of the teams is simply refusing to play?

  12. #4592

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Quote Originally Posted by Kirbycide View Post
    Or... maybe you're just being a fool for the ridiculous story that the Republicans are feeding you?
    Expect it's not this at all. Republicans are not telling me anything, I'm just seeing how Democrats act without a rose-coloured lens. I'm many left-wing, so I don't really pay attention to right-wing stuff. No one is feeding me anything.

    They want you to think that they are not as bad as they really are, that should be obvious.
    It isn't that at all. I'm looking at things without my rose-colored lens on. Republicans are not even telling me anything. And I meant some awesome peeps who are not Democrat too, we don't talk politics at all, very rarely. I'm not sure where you got the idea that I'm being told this?

    And they want you to think that the Democrats only bloviate without accomplishing anything, because that makes you lose faith in their opposition.
    But again, Republicans didn't tell me what to think, I'm thinking for myself. I'm just looking at the situation from one who does not belong to any party, but seeing for what things are.

    There are only two reasons why Democratic legislators have been unable to get much done in the last four years. And their names are Mitch McConnell and Donald Trump.
    And Nancy Pelosi.

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  13. #4593
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    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Um... I'm tired and am now going to wash my hands of this nonsense. Good luck figuring everything out, Starla. You've got a lot of work to do.

    I'll just finish by saying that I don't think that Republicans are by definition evil. I think that they're lazy, greedy, and misguided. And that they take advantage of other uninformed and misguided people to get their way. The fact that the national conversation has been colored so well by them is frustrating to the Nth degree, but the only way we can change that is by having open and honest discourse about it, like we are doing right now. But, frankly, I'm too exhausted to continue this with you.

    I have friends who are Republicans. I respect them as people, but I do not respect their political party in the slightest. If you can't see that the name of their game is to play only when they can win and refuse to play when they can't, then you've played right into their hands.
    Last edited by Kirbycide; October 9th, 2020 at 11:58 PM.

  14. #4594

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Quote Originally Posted by Kirbycide View Post
    If the Republicans actually wanted to pass a coronavirus relief bill, then why hasn't the Senate done their job, modified the bill passed by the House, voted on it, and sent it back to the House to be ratified?

    That's how our government is supposed to work, and how we are supposed to reach a consensus, even when the parties don't agree with each other.

    Instead, the Senate hasn't even attempted to look at the bill. Doesn't that seem like one of the teams is simply refusing to play?
    Expect Republicans finally succumbed to wanting to make a new Coronavirus package a few months after they rejected the House bill from earlier. I have been keeping up with this at least, and it seems they finally working on something, but still at a standstill because both sides won't budge.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Kirbycide View Post
    Um... I'm tired and am now going to wash my hands of this nonsense. Good luck figuring everything out, Starla. You've got a lot of work to do.
    Well, okay.... you're just assuming I'm being told things by one side when it really isn't true; honestly, I did figure things out, just took off my rose-colored glasses. Plus, I just refuse to go into the us vs. them mentality is all.

    But, anyways, thanks for the conversation and seeing your side of things. Even if I disagree it's just nice to see a different side of the topic compared to my own perspective! I does give me some insight honestly and makes me understand where you are coming from with your own viewpoints. :3

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Kirbycide View Post
    I'll just finish by saying that I don't think that Republicans are by definition evil. I think that they're lazy, greedy, and misguided. And that they take advantage of other uninformed and misguided people to get their way. The fact that the national conversation has been colored so well by them is frustrating to the Nth degree, but the only way we can change that is by having open and honest discourse about it, like we are doing right now. But, frankly, I'm too exhausted to continue this with you.
    I understand now. Well, I disagree with a lot of things Republicans do, and I do get frustrated with them. It's honestly, why I think most of the actual Republican politicians are a bit on the crazy side, specifically, the religious ones. To me Democrats are a bit more sane, and I tend to agree with them more, but the little things that they do that I disagree with gets annoying, with stuff we just talked about. At least they give a shit about people like me. (I'm transgender male to female.)

    Sorry if I was annoying, I wasn't trying to be. >.<

    I have friends who are Republicans. I respect them as people, but I do not respect their political party in the slightest.
    I get it now. Thanks for clarifying what you mean.

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  15. #4595
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    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Did my civic duty earlier today.

    I'm really hoping we can put the last four years behind us, but 2016 taught me to never be so naive again.
    Last edited by Kitsune Inferno; October 10th, 2020 at 12:15 AM. Reason: Finally, a use for my ignore list

  16. #4596

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Quote Originally Posted by Kitsune Inferno View Post
    Did my civic duty earlier today.

    I'm really hoping we can put the last four years behind us, but 2016 taught me to never be so naive again.
    Woohoo! I was supposed to go to the post office to mail my ballot, but depression hit and really didn't want to leave the house. Will be making sure I go today, I don't want my ballot to be late like for the primary. (I think it was late, but I don't really know, I waited till the last minute.)

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    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now



    Starla, this is for you. The parties aren't supposed to meet behind closed doors, figure out a law, and then pass it in both the House and the Senate at the same time. Legislation is supposed to bounce back and forth between the chambers, getting passed by one, modified and passed by the other, and so on and so forth, until both finally ratify the same legislation.

    The fact that the Senate hasn't done that should make it abundantly clear that it's the Republicans who will act only when they can win, and when they cannot they simply refuse to do anything and then blame it on the Democrats.

  18. #4598

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Quote Originally Posted by Kirbycide View Post


    Starla, this is for you. The parties aren't supposed to meet behind closed doors, figure out a law, and then pass it in both the House and the Senate at the same time. Legislation is supposed to bounce back and forth between the chambers, getting passed by one, modified and passed by the other, and so on and so forth, until both finally ratify the same legislation.
    Well, this honestly clears up a bit for me, as I totally forget about the whole process of how laws are made and work. So, now I understand. Republicans should have modified the House bill for the Coronavirus as pointed out in the video bills start in the house and then go to the Senate. Yeah, both parties going on behind closed doors and making their own bills is not what should be happening, but instead working together for the better good of the nation. And thank you, this actually makes understand more in what you were trying to tell me earlier!

    I really need to learn more of how the American government works, probably help understand things better with a new perspective on the whole issue. I only pay some attention to some news articles, but they just report the news and not really explain of how the government works. Honestly, I got some learning to do with how things are *supposed* to be run versus what is happening now.
    Last edited by starlalilymoon; October 10th, 2020 at 12:33 AM.

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  19. #4599

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Quote Originally Posted by starlalilymoon View Post
    I honestly think the nomination should go through regardless. It should have went many years ago with Obama, and it should now. And no, I disagree I don't want the Supreme Court expanded, that's just stupid. Just because the justice is a conservative doesn't mean we have to change that by adding more justices to feel like you have to win and try to frame as the other side as some super enemy. That's just gonna look bad on Democrats.
    This reminds me of the Trevor Noah video where he explains the social contract that is supposed to benefit everybody. He made that in response to the riots after George Floyd got killed. Not sure if you've seen it. I'll just repost it because black lives still matter. And trans lives still matter. And black trans lives still matter.



    The takeaway is that as long as everybody plays by the rules and does their part to further society, everybody has a reason and the incentive to keep playing by those rules. But as soon as one person/party (repeatedly) breaks those rules by neglicence or purposefully, there is no logic to the whole contract anymore and anybody who still tries to play by the old rules will get overrun by those in power.

    This is exactly what the Supreme Court situation reminds me of. Or the GOP in general. From what I see, Republicans in charge do not care about upholding any rules that have been established (even by themselves in the past) if those rules don't benefit them. They don't care about a contract. They don't care if they contradict their own stances as long as they can get ahead. That shows a lack of integrity which makes it extremely hard to take anything they do in good faith.

    The Democrats for a long time have been adhering to a rulebook that has been disregarded by the GOP. As has been pointed out there really isn't anything they can do about the SC nomination right now. But them voicing their concerns about this rushed appointment process and possibly considering expanding the court is not hypocritical to me. It is them changing their minds. Because they have realized that they are the only ones who have been working with a contract that the other party does not recognize. Using the system that is in place which will allow the Democrats to expand the Supreme Court will not reflect badly on them. Rather from my point of view, letting the GOP do whatever they want without repercussions will make the United States of America look bad.
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  20. #4600

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Quote Originally Posted by Huschel View Post
    This reminds me of the Trevor Noah video where he explains the social contract that is supposed to benefit everybody. He made that in response to the riots after George Floyd got killed. Not sure if you've seen it.
    I stopped watching the political comedy videos like Trevor Noah or John Oliver a while ago. Been trying to avoid politics and the news for my own mental stability as both sides annoy me. Though I keep coming back to this thread lol and checking allsides. Honestly, it's like an addiction. x.x

    Speaking of black lives matter, I actually wrote a letter to my mayor asking for police reform. And I think it helped as on the ballot there was a police reform question which I made sure to say yes! I'm sick of the corruption that can exist in the police force, and police reform helps everyone in the nation to be honest.

    The takeaway is that as long as everybody plays by the rules and does their part to further society, everybody has a reason and the incentive to keep playing by those rules. But as soon as one person/party (repeatedly) breaks those rules by neglicence or purposefully, there is no logic to the whole contract anymore and anybody who still tries to play by the old rules will get overrun by those in power.
    Oh, I see. But sometimes the new rules suck and the old rules were better in some cases.

    This is exactly what the Supreme Court situation reminds me of. Or the GOP in general. From what I see, Republicans in charge do not care about upholding any rules that have been established (even by themselves in the past) if those rules don't benefit them. They don't care about a contract. They don't care if they contradict their own stances as long as they can get ahead. That shows a lack of integrity which makes it extremely hard to take anything they do in good faith.
    Oh, I see. Yeah, it's disheartening if they want to get rid of abortion or gay marriage, even though it doesn't hurt anyone. Honestly, I didn't even know rulings could be overturn in the Supreme Court.

    The Democrats for a long time have been adhering to a rulebook that has been disregarded by the GOP. As has been pointed out there really isn't anything they can do about the SC nomination right now. But them voicing their concerns about this rushed appointment process and possibly considering expanding the court is not hypocritical to me. It is them changing their minds. Because they have realized that they are the only ones who have been working with a contract that the other party does not recognize. Using the system that is in place which will allow the Democrats to expand the Supreme Court will not reflect badly on them. Rather from my point of view, letting the GOP do whatever they want without repercussions will make the United States of America look bad.
    Oh, I see. Thanks for explaining your viewpoint. Though your statement of changing your mind can be said the same for the Republicans. Honestly, I still feel like both sides are hypocrites because I'm being told one thing and then it gets changed after another. I guess both sides *could change their mind* but I think it's important not to say change one's mind for one aspect, but not for another.

    Even with the bill video that Kirbycide showed me, it just shows me that *both* Republicans and Democrats don't want to work together. And it's been going on since the Bill Clinton days, or even earlier. And it sucks. I guess I try to see both sides, as I hold some conservative viewpoints, but I have mostly liberal ones. I don't think everything Democrats say and want to do is a good idea. Though I think most of Republicans want to do is pointless like overturning everything Obama did, but honestly everything is just a us vs. them mentality and I made sure to get out of that, hence why I criticize both parties, but I also see that Republicans and Democrats make some good points too.
    Last edited by starlalilymoon; October 10th, 2020 at 01:16 AM.

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