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Thread: American Politics: So long Trump!

  1. #3141

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now



    That was a fantastic speech. One of the best political speeches I’ve ever seen. No bluster, no drama, all sincerity. factual but eloquent tone. Could genuinely feel that he cares & wants to unite us to be better than what we are right now.

    Strong, smart, on-point, kind, hopeful and full of a vision for a better and brighter American future.

    I can genuinely get behind this guy, not just grudgingly accept him.
    Last edited by Robby; August 21st, 2020 at 03:42 AM.
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  2. #3142

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Quote Originally Posted by Green_vs_Red View Post
    Robo no disrespect, and I get you have your opinions but this is bar none the dumbest thing I've seen you say.

    You can watch or read a transcript of a Trump interview or speech over the last several years and can see first hand how much of terrible public speaker this guy is hell
    we've pointed it out numerous times what his weaknesses is in speaking i.e. his tendency to repeat his himself, being overdramatic, hating to be challenged or questioned, being concise (sometimes) but also being too vague.

    As for whose the bigger liability to their respective plans Trump unanimously wins that argument. Between his constant lying, shifting concept of loyalty, janky cognitive state, demonizing both his supporters & prospective supporters, his poor grasp of current trends & social dynamics, his poor management style, etc

    I don't know how you think he's better than Biden on any of these fronts.
    If Trump is such a huge liability to himself, why is it that his speaking missteps never damage him?
    How is it that he's been able to talk himself out of multiple treason scandals?
    I always see people complaining about grammatical or structural mistakes in his speeches while ignoring the fact that he's one of the most effective speakers the Republican Party has ever had.
    It doesn't really matter if what he says sounds horrible to an educated, analytical listener as long as he can convince tens of millions of people to believe literally anything.
    He convinced Republicans to defend Russia.

    I have yet to see Biden convince people of anything other than the fact that he's not as bad as Trump and has a tendency to say weird, disturbing things about black people (which does seem to be having an effect on voters).

  3. #3143

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Quote Originally Posted by RoboBlue View Post
    If Trump is such a huge liability to himself, why is it that his speaking missteps never damage him?

    Among his dumb as hell base who think he's smart or among the more sane common sense types who know he's a stupid motherfucker who is exhibit A. that having a college degree doesn't instantly make you smart?


    Quote Originally Posted by RoboBlue View Post
    How is it that he's been able to talk himself out of multiple treason scandals?
    Has he talked himself out of it or has both the media and his supporters essentially covered those up or downplayed them?

    Not to mention this his multiple bankruptcies
    His multiple affairs
    his multiple lawsuits
    his multiple instances of making sexist or racist comments
    his multiple public spats with people who have criticized him or have said nothing critical of him
    his breaking of and skirting of various laws before and since becoming president

    None of those have just up and disappeared they're still there. Not only for anyone to look up whenever they want but to be reminded of whenever he says something stupid on Twitter that gets immediately thrown back in his face.



    Quote Originally Posted by RoboBlue View Post
    I always see people complaining about grammatical or structural mistakes in his speeches while ignoring the fact that he's one of the most effective speakers the Republican Party has ever had.
    And paradoxically one of the most damaging mouthpieces the Republicans have had and unlike the usual crazy types that lurk on the fringes of the Republican party holds the highest office in the country. And is someone who're they're not going to just be able to to pretend didn't represent the party or that they didn't carry his water to point they stopped him from getting impeached.

    The latter of which may very well cost them the Senate.




    Quote Originally Posted by RoboBlue View Post
    It doesn't really matter if what he says sounds horrible to an educated, analytical listener as long as he can convince tens of millions of people to believe literally anything.
    He convinced Republicans to defend Russia.
    Some of these people were already carrying water for Russia before Trump even got the nomination, all Trump's candidacy and presidency did was make some of these connections even more transparent, also damaging their reputations in the process, in their effort to shield him.


    Quote Originally Posted by RoboBlue View Post
    I have yet to see Biden convince people of anything other than the fact that he's not as bad as Trump and has a tendency to say weird, disturbing things about black people (which does seem to be having an effect on voters).
    I mean Trump's not winning those people over all that much either and he has Kanye West's support (who I'm pretty sure most of them seen as loon.)

    Plus if we really want to play the game of white guy saying weird things about minorities. Do I have to remind you of all the stupid shit Trump has said about hispanics and blacks?

    Or the fact he and his father got sued because they wouldn't rent to black people?
    Last edited by Green_vs_Red; August 21st, 2020 at 03:49 AM.
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    I've often wondered about that myself; seems like being supported by people who only want you there so the world can end in fire (with you going to Hell in the process) would be somewhat off-putting
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  4. #3144

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Trump doesn't get away with shit. He hasn't talked his way out of anything, countless republicans and media carrying water for him have bent over backwards to interpret and cover his meaning, and broken laws to fit what he said, he *personally* hasn't managed to save himself from gaffes much at all.

    He's damaged his entire party due to their covering for him and made all the illegal stuff obvious. Like... the NRA which has been around for 150 years might be dead now because of him. He's got prominent members of his own party campaigning against him. We'll have to see how badly in two months but "one of the most effective speakers the Republican Party has ever had " might also be their last for a while.

    If he doesn't manage to rig the election, and loses, then his "talking his way out of everything" isn't going to last very long come January when the dozens of FBI investigations come knocking for his family.
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  5. #3145
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    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post
    Trump doesn't get away with shit. He hasn't talked his way out of anything, countless republicans and media carrying water for him have bent over backwards to interpret and cover his meaning, and broken laws to fit what he said, he *personally* hasn't managed to save himself from gaffes much at all.

    He's damaged his entire party due to their covering for him and made all the illegal stuff obvious. Like... the NRA which has been around for 150 years might be dead now because of him. He's got prominent members of his own party campaigning against him. We'll have to see how badly in two months but "one of the most effective speakers the Republican Party has ever had " might also be their last for a while.

    If he doesn't manage to rig the election, and loses, then his "talking his way out of everything" isn't going to last very long come January when the dozens of FBI investigations come knocking for his family.
    You really think the trump family will face any consequences for anything they've done? I genuinely wish I could believe that.
    Gonna give ya the D.!

  6. #3146

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Quote Originally Posted by The D. View Post
    You really think the trump family will face any consequences for anything they've done? I genuinely wish I could believe that.
    They've pissed off every federal agency, committed treason, forced investigations that prove their mafia and russian ties. Yes, I think they will, almost immediately after they stop being protected by the powers of the president if they're not out of the country before the switch over..

    Donald himself will never see jail time because of his position, age, and army of lawyers for court battle of the century, but his empire is screwed when this is over.

    It's why he's so desperate to rig things and devastate the postal service no matter the cost. He thinks he wins if he gets more walk in voters and knows he loses if mail in happens.
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  7. #3147
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    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post
    They've pissed off every federal agency, committed treason, forced investigations that prove their mafia and russian ties. Yes, I think they will, almost immediately after they stop being protected by the powers of the president if they're not out of the country before the switch over..

    Donald himself will never see jail time because of his position, age, and army of lawyers for court battle of the century, but his empire is screwed when this is over.

    It's why he's so desperate to rig things and devastate the postal service no matter the cost. He thinks he wins if he gets more walk in voters and knows he loses if mail in happens.
    I hope you're right. Not just because I hate trumpy and his entire disgusting family, but it would show that no one is untouchable. No one is above the law. And that's something I haven't believed for a long time.
    Gonna give ya the D.!

  8. #3148

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    It's not like the whoooole family was a big screw up, there John G. Trump, the scientist. It's mostly Fred Sr, Donny and his offspring.

  9. #3149

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    Quote Originally Posted by Green_vs_Red View Post
    Among his dumb as hell base who think he's smart or among the more sane common sense types who know he's a stupid motherfucker who is exhibit A. that having a college degree doesn't instantly make you smart?
    Both.
    Up until Coronavirus the more sane people on the right were more supportive of him and more dismissive of his flaws than they had been during the 2016 election.
    I still don't have a single conservative friend willing to admit he's a racist, and they're often annoyed that people focus on "made up stuff like that" instead of whatever policy failures they're willing to admit to.

    Quote Originally Posted by Green_vs_Red View Post
    Has he talked himself out of it or has both the media and his supporters essentially covered those up or downplayed them?
    Both, but Trump deserves the lion's share of the credit for that because of his ability to tap into his supporters' hate for the media and his persistence in crushing or weeding out anyone who isn't willing to sacrifice all principles, credibility and future career prospects to make Trump sound good at all times.
    It's really all he does, all day long.

    Quote Originally Posted by Green_vs_Red View Post
    Not to mention this his multiple bankruptcies
    His multiple affairs
    his multiple lawsuits
    his multiple instances of making sexist or racist comments
    his multiple public spats with people who have criticized him or have said nothing critical of him
    his breaking of and skirting of various laws before and since becoming president

    None of those have just up and disappeared they're still there. Not only for anyone to look up whenever they want but to be reminded of whenever he says something stupid on Twitter that gets immediately thrown back in his face.
    Those are all easily dismissed as lies by evil people.
    Once confirmation bias set in, it became impossible for anyone even remotely supportive of Trump to admit to themselves all the horrible shit they tolerated and accepted. The smarter and more rational ones have a token list of things Trump did/does that bothers them but it's outweighed by what they see as the mountain of "lies" his critics tell about him on a daily basis.

    Quote Originally Posted by Green_vs_Red View Post
    And paradoxically one of the most damaging mouthpieces the Republicans have had and unlike the usual crazy types that lurk on the fringes of the Republican party holds the highest office in the country. And is someone who're they're not going to just be able to to pretend didn't represent the party or that they didn't carry his water to point they stopped him from getting impeached.

    The latter of which may very well cost them the Senate.
    Well yeah, that's what happens when you let a talented but insane grifter with no other useful skills take over.

    Quote Originally Posted by Green_vs_Red View Post
    Some of these people were already carrying water for Russia before Trump even got the nomination, all Trump's candidacy and presidency did was make some of these connections even more transparent, also damaging their reputations in the process, in their effort to shield him.
    True, but Trump's attempts to convince the right to love Putin started well before the election.
    I distinctly remember Jon Stewart freaking out in 2012 because Fox pundits kept promoting Trump's claim that Obama was an incredibly weak man who America should be ashamed of, unlike the uber-chad Putin.
    Looking back it's pretty disturbing that he was essentially working to create incel culture as a Russian propaganda tactic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Green_vs_Red View Post
    I mean Trump's not winning those people over all that much either and he has Kanye West's support (who I'm pretty sure most of them seen as loon.)

    Plus if we really want to play the game of white guy saying weird things about minorities. Do I have to remind you of all the stupid shit Trump has said about hispanics and blacks?

    Or the fact he and his father got sued because they wouldn't rent to black people?
    True, but Biden inherently has a higher risk of alienating black and hispanic supporters because the Democrats have more of them, and because he can't use Trump's tactic of flooding the airwaves with other stupid statements to drown out the damaging thing he said recently.
    The fact that younger black voters are less likely to see Trump's racism for what it is, is also a problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post
    Trump doesn't get away with shit. He hasn't talked his way out of anything, countless republicans and media carrying water for him have bent over backwards to interpret and cover his meaning, and broken laws to fit what he said, he *personally* hasn't managed to save himself from gaffes much at all.

    He's damaged his entire party due to their covering for him and made all the illegal stuff obvious. Like... the NRA which has been around for 150 years might be dead now because of him. He's got prominent members of his own party campaigning against him. We'll have to see how badly in two months but "one of the most effective speakers the Republican Party has ever had " might also be their last for a while.

    If he doesn't manage to rig the election, and loses, then his "talking his way out of everything" isn't going to last very long come January when the dozens of FBI investigations come knocking for his family.
    I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on this because you seem pretty set in the belief that Trump's ability to repeatedly get away with murder is solely due to all the other people in government and the media covering for him.

    The pincer attack of his supporters' blind rage at anyone who criticizes him combined with his own willingness to mark those who don't bend to his whims as enemies deserving of hate, violence and death is what keeps the GOP establishment firmly behind him, and that cycle is not going to stop when he leaves office.
    He's too narcissistic to hide from public life like Bush Jr did.
    We're likely going to see the party make small, incremental moves away from Trump's policies while they continue to lie and attempt to rehabilitate him so as not to risk losing his very angry and very active cult.
    I expect them to continue to fight investigations and criminal prosecutions against him and his allies, and actively participate in Trump's attempts to make himself a martyr.

    When Biden loses in 2024 I won't be shocked at all if one of his successor's first acts is to pardon Trump.
    Last edited by RoboBlue; August 21st, 2020 at 02:46 PM.

  10. #3150
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    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Quote Originally Posted by RoboBlue View Post
    When Biden loses in 2024
    Bold of you to assume Don Jr. can defeat Biden.

  11. #3151

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Quote Originally Posted by Dorobō Neko View Post
    Bold of you to assume Don Jr. can defeat Biden.
    Why would Don Jr even be running?

  12. #3152

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    lol at the idea of the GOP doing work to help Trump on legal stuff if he loses

  13. #3153

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    They GOP'll do what they did with Bush 2 and memory hole the Trump Regime, and move on to the next belligerent fascist they run in 2024.

    Which will probably be either Don Jr. or Tulsi Gabbard by that point.

  14. #3154

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyan D. Funk View Post
    They GOP'll do what they did with Bush 2 and memory hole the Trump Regime, and move on to the next belligerent fascist they run in 2024.

    Which will probably be either Don Jr. or Tulsi Gabbard by that point.
    They can't do that, though.
    Bush Jr was disposable because he wasn't that popular among Republicans by the end of his second term, and he had no desire to stay in the public eye.

    Trump is still going to be wildly popular among a large chunk of Republican voters, and unless he suddenly dies he'll stay an unhealthily active and influential pundit.

  15. #3155
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    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Quote Originally Posted by RoboBlue View Post
    Why would Don Jr even be running?
    Because the GOP is a small tent party who will really only support name recognition.

    Biden won the nom partly because of that this time but there will be another Obama that more or less comes out of nowhere. Hell we almost had that this time around with Mayor Pete if he had polled better with black voters.

    But for the GOP? Early polls have a split field with Pence and Don Jr. pretty much tied at the top and the GOP base loves stupid racist fascists. And their primaries are winner take all.

    Pence and Ivanka are far too boring. The moderates like Hogan are going to waste their time. But Don Jr. is going to want to run knowing full well he can get the nom and have a chance to save their failing empire.

    You should assume right now Don Jr. is the front-runner for the GOP in 2024.

  16. #3156

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    The 2024 GOP primary is probably going to look like this:

    - Don Jr.
    - Mike Pompeo
    - eyepatch guy
    - Mike Pence
    - Ted Cruz
    - A red state freshman congresscritter who will spend the Biden years making headlines as a cartoonish racist
    - Tom Cotton
    - Looten Plunder
    - Kanye West

  17. #3157
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    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Kanye would have done well enough in 2024 to either get the nom, be the VP or get a job in the admin of Don Jr. had he not made this run. Since he is failing the GOP by not really getting on the ballot in enough states to hurt Biden.

    I do think Cruz might skip out next time and wait for an easier field.

    Pompeo will come in 4th or 5th in Iowa. lmao

    Solid Snake and Cotton will be brushed aside pretty fast early on. Hogan and Haley too. One of these 4 will be Don's VP probably.

    Every donor will wish Tucker Carlson had run but he won't.

  18. #3158
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    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Quote Originally Posted by Dorobo Neko
    Because the GOP is a small tent party who will really only support name recognition.

    Biden won the nom partly because of that this time but there will be another Obama that more or less comes out of nowhere. Hell we almost had that this time around with Mayor Pete if he had polled better with black voters.

    But for the GOP? Early polls have a split field with Pence and Don Jr. pretty much tied at the top and the GOP base loves stupid racist fascists. And their primaries are winner take all.

    Pence and Ivanka are far too boring. The moderates like Hogan are going to waste their time. But Don Jr. is going to want to run knowing full well he can get the nom and have a chance to save their failing empire.

    You should assume right now Don Jr. is the front-runner for the GOP in 2024.
    That's presuming the American people don't undergo a massive paradigm shift within the next few years wondering if it's even worth continuing their current system of democracy if people like Don Jr. have a chance of making the Oval Office and putting us back into the dark days of the Trump presidency only with a new member of the dynasty!
    Quote Originally Posted by Robby
    That was a fantastic speech. One of the best political speeches I’ve ever seen. No bluster, no drama, all sincerity. factual but eloquent tone. Could genuinely feel that he cares & wants to unite us to be better than what we are right now.

    Strong, smart, on-point, kind, hopeful and full of a vision for a better and brighter American future.

    I can genuinely get behind this guy, not just grudgingly accept him.
    All I saw was 25 minutes of political virtue signalling. To say that you can genuinely get behind Biden now because of it just shows, Robby, that you're a reflection of a perpetual trap that people keep falling into: The trap of charismatic seduction. The EXACT trap that Trump used to establish his cult base.
    Last edited by Kaba Kaba Fruit; August 21st, 2020 at 09:00 PM.

  19. #3159
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    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    T-rump seems to be obsessed with convincing people that AOC is stupid. Which just gives her more opportunities to burn him:
    https://secondnexus.com/donald-trump...-b5IZNz2zOmwWw

  20. #3160

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Trump won't be Dubya'd because Trump is almost uniquely popular with Republican voters. Dubya's approvals among the conservative base was already in the shitter by 2008 so it was easy to dismiss him as a non-entity and a fake conservative. The party elites will try to ditch him (like they did throughout 2015-2016) and quietly enjoy all the lawsuits flung his way, but primary candidates in 2022 will run on Trump/QAnon. And he won't suffer a dip in popularity if he loses either, because all of them will believe it was a rigged election.

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