View Poll Results: Who is Luffy's 10th Person?

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  • Yamato

    125 45.45%
  • Shinobu

    1 0.36%
  • An Akazaya Samurai (Kin'emon, Kiku, etc.)

    1 0.36%
  • Momo

    8 2.91%
  • Tama

    7 2.55%
  • Carrot

    58 21.09%
  • A Supernova (Law, Drake, Bonney, etc.)

    7 2.55%
  • Caribou

    4 1.45%
  • Other

    22 8.00%
  • None: Jinbe is the final Straw Hat

    42 15.27%
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Thread: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

  1. #2621

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Quote Originally Posted by theackwardstation View Post
    It's not only about Law will learning about history or not, but how he can influence Luffy based on this information, or how he will he take action personally, so he needs to be there. I doubt that Law will find out about the Will of D through the newspapers, especially because Oda is now putting the effort to create a plot-thread about Law looking for the truth, which needs proper development and resolution in the narrative.

    In fact, I think it's relevant that Luffy has a D. friend close to him, because Luffy himself doesn't care about it. If he'll bring the Dawn to the world and overthrow the WG, it's because of current day events, like the great cleansing, slavery and his friends being threatened (Sabo and Vivi, for example)... not because of the past. So we need Law to digest the other part of the plot, or at least influence Luffy to actually care about his lineage.

    Anyway, Law dying is obviously because of the immortality surgery. It may not happen, but the possibility is certainly there ever since it was mentioned. And it's always easy to find purpose in characters' deaths... it's just a matter of context and themes...
    Why does Law need to influence Luffy?
    Anyway, it´s not about Law learning about it in newspapers, pretty sure we will see something related to CoO or something similar that spreads the truth, not my idea to be honest, don´t remember who came up with it, but the person underlined that Rayleigh mentioning every person having CoO will not stay irrelevant.
    Law leaving Wa No and saying he will look for the last RP is good enough, i do not agree with the need of seeing him in any capacity for the narration.
    Might as well argue all Ds will be there (or need to be there) since they all are influenced by the weird fate Sengoku alluded to and which Law mentioned in the latest chapter, admittedly do not share the degree of interest as Law in it, but still. Dragon makes sense considering his goal, or Garp learning for whom he has worked all these years (though apparently he has no illusions regarding the Tenryuubito anyway).

    Luffy being involved or rather stimulated into action by personal investment is a constant theme throughout the story, which you also alluded to, but i see no reason why Luffy needs to care about the bigger picture at the end of the story when he has never cared before. The essential part has always been about the implication of Luffy´s actions, never about his directly and consciously targeted goal.
    He did not beat Croc because he cared about Ancient Weapon or Alabasta per se, it was about Vivi mostly.
    Did not prevent the WG getting the only one to awake the ACs, he got a friend back, and the list goes on.
    It has almost always been a fortunate by-effect that whatever Luffy wanted personally coincided with the greater good (except maybe Impel Down).
    I doubt this will ever change significantly. To be fair, Wa No had him play Robin Hood for an instance, but once again what drew him into action was really only Tama.

    That´s true for a different story than OP, though this might have changed with Yasu´s death i guess.

  2. #2622
    Button Pusher Shift's Avatar
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    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    On a general note, I'm expecting that the fight with Perospero won't be easy, even with Carrot and Wanda fighting together. Not impossible, but he certainly deserves his high bounty, and the Sulong stamina will be a factor. He'll probably have some taunting left to do, as well. But I think it'll be a good show and give some insight into what Carrot ultimately wants.



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  3. #2623

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    What do you guys think Yamato’s devil fruit is? I think it might be a White Tiger Zoan

  4. #2624
    Your long-lost brother Jabra's Avatar
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    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Quote Originally Posted by Shiebs View Post
    What do you guys think Yamato’s devil fruit is? I think it might be a White Tiger Zoan
    Artificial Male Dragon

    +

    Mythical Hito Hito no Mi - Model Kijo

    "Kijo is a broad term that in its most general sense encompasses any female demon, just as the term oni can technically refer to any male demon. Indeed, the name kijo is formed simply by combining the two kanji for oni and woman. They work solo, and have their own motives. Further, kijo and oni are not commonly seen together."

    Spoiler:


  5. #2625
    Discovered Stowaway Syphin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Present time character deaths in One Piece is a very fascinating subject. Over the course of the story it becomes clear that Oda rarely kills off present time named characters preferring instead to incapacitate characters via defeats or injuries. Through the interpretation of logic, the situations certain characters are subject to should have an obvious end but time and time again, logic has been dissolved in favour of the desires held by Oda. It may just be my interpretation but with Oda's handling of death to present time important named characters, he has established that before he is willing to completely end a character’s life, their death must be able to significantly move the story forward and their will is able to be inherited by another character or characters still existing within the One Piece world. That way, even though the character has died, their role in the story is not over with their will being inherited and still influencing the world of One Piece. The prime examples of this are Whitebeard and Ace where the ripples of their deaths are still impacting the story and characters of One Piece.

    In Pedro's case, given that I believe Carrot will eventually inherit his will, I don't disagree with him being "dead" but I do not agree with the impossibility that Pedro could be alive. Carrot has not inherited Pedro's will yet. What if Carrot never does? Until we get confirmation that Pedro’s will has been inherited by Carrot and/or Pekoms, he has yet to be fully embraced by the arms of death. Yes he was central to the bomb explosion. Yes he has a gravestone. Yes the story heavily implied he died. But as Robby mentioned, Pell also had all those things going for him and Oda revealed him alive once the arc was dealt with. If Pedro’s will is inherited that is a sure sign that Oda intends for Pedro to stay dead. Until then, regardless of how implausible, Pedro death is not 100%. Pedro having a chapter title during his sacrifice as is the case with other important present time characters that have died (Ace, Whitebeard and Shimotsuki Yasuie) does lead me to lean towards him being dead but I am just waiting to see if Carrot inherits the will of Pedro (she has not made the slightest mention of Pedro's dream/goal at all since his sacrifice - it has been around 15-16 days).

    The obvious reluctance by Oda to fully represent the moment a character kills another is incredibly telling about Oda’s intention. If a present time named character is not confirmed dead and if inherited will is not a driving force in their character, the chances of them being fully dead in One Piece are not 100%. With each significant character death the story has a character ready to inherit the dead characters will and carry it into the future.

    East Blue Saga: Number of present time character deaths: 1:
    • Higuma
    I am including Higuma as a present time named character because the One Piece story did begin during that time and then jumped ten years forward to focus on Luffy leaving Foosha Village to form his own Pirate crew and find the treasure One Piece.

    Fake outs:
    • Nyanban brothers (Sham and Buchi);
    • Gin
    Both have been confirmed to be alive.

    Alabasta Saga: Number of present time character deaths: 5:
    • the Alabasta Tsumegeri Guards: Arrow, Barrel, Brahm and Hyota; and
    • Mr 11
    [Oda did have the Island Eater killed at the end of the Little Garden arc (though it is technically not a “character”)]
    Both the Tsumegeri Guards and Mr 11 were exposition characters to highlight Baroque Works.

    Fake outs:
    • Igaram;
    • Dorry
    • the Lapahn;
    • Pell

    Skypiea Saga: Number of present time character deaths: 2:
    • Executioner” Roshio; and
    • Unnamed character on Upper Yard (named Zabo in the anime)
    Roshio like the Tsumegeri Guards weren’t significant characters to the respective arcs they were involved in and were primarily introduced to build up other characters, in this case Bellamy and his eventual one punch trashing at the fist of Luffy.

    Fake outs:
    • Bellamy;
    • Pagaya; and
    • Gedatsu

    Water 7 Saga: Number of present time "character" deaths: 1
    • Going Merry
    Technically not a person but a character nonetheless that the readers have come to form an emotional connection with. The death of the Going Merry helped to set-up Franky joining the crew and making way for the Thousand Sunny to be introduced which has now inherited the will of the Going Merry. Franky has also gone on to create the Mini Merry II to honour the original ship and to keep its memory alive.

    Fake outs
    :
    • Franky Family;
    • Galley-La;
    • Oimo and Kashi
    These characters were all blown off Enies Lobby when the Marines attacked. They all showed up later alive and revealed that Paulie saved them all with his ropes.
    • CP9; and
    • Spandam
    The fates of the CP9 and Spandam were also left up in the air with the readers presuming them to be dead until they appeared in the CP9’s Independent Report cover page story.

    Thriller Bark Saga: Number of present time character deaths: 0

    The Thriller Bark saga recorded no present time named character deaths unless you count the zombies whom are already dead like Ryuuma’s corpse.

    Summit War Saga: Number of present time character deaths: 2
    • Portgas D. Ace; and
    • Edward Newgate aka “Whitebeard”
    Ace was intimately linked to the overarching story of One Piece with Roger being his father. Ace dying provided Luffy with a reason to take time to train before entering the New World. Ace’s will has been inherited by Luffy and Sabo. Ace’s death allowed for Sabo’s entrance to become more meaningful and relevant. Additionally, Ace is part of the reason why Jinbe has become so connected with Luffy. Ace and his actions in the past continue to reverberate throughout the story of One Piece with them becoming relevant to the story unraveling inside Wano Kuni.

    As for Whitebeard, he rejuvenated the passion driving pirates by confirming the existence of One Piece. It inspired a new generation of Pirates. Whitebeard’s death ended an era and set the scene for a new era to begin, an era defined by the members of the Worst Generation. In addition, Whitebeard dying allowed for Blackbeard to attain a second Devil Fruit power enabling him to wield seismic powers on top of his darkness. Further story threads dealing with Whitebeard’s past and his legacy are continuing to develop through the story of One Piece such as his history with the Rocks Pirates and his connection with Weevil and Bakkin. Whitebeard’s will has been inherited by the remnants of the Whitebeard Pirates and likely also by Weevil who has been conditioned to believe he is Whitebeard’s son.

    There were also plenty of non-named characters killed in level 6 Impel Down when Teach proposed his offer. Plus there is that Marine Sakazuki killed for fleeing the war because they did not want to die out of concern for their family.

    Fake outs:
    • Betham aka. Mr 2. Bon Kurei
    • Lacuba (a fine example of Oda's writing style - despite being confirmed to have died after his body was checked, he appeared later celebrating with the rest of the slaves when Franky threw the keys for their chains to them); and
    • Devil Dias

    Fish-Man Island Saga: Number of present time character deaths: 0

    The Fish-Man Island saga recorded no present time named character deaths. Caribou did kill an unnamed Marine in the Return to Sabaody Arc.

    Fake outs:
    • Vander Decken IX
    Vander Decken IX who appeared to have died after being injured by Hody and hitting his head which subsequently stopped his Devil Fruit power from affecting Noah. Vander Decken IX is alive though imprisoned along with the New Fish-Man Pirates who only aged from the effects of the Energy Steroid.

    Dressrosa Saga: Number of present time character deaths: 0

    No character has been fully confirmed to have died during the Dressrosa Saga, although there is that Donquixote Pirate subordinate Law transferred places with when Doflamingo expressed his anger on “Law”. Not sure if he did die though. Dragon Number Thirteen and Smiley did die but they were created by scientist as experiments.

    Unconfirmed status:
    • Monet
    • Vergo;
    • Rock; and
    • Scotch
    Both Vergo and Monet's final moment on Punk Hazard were “portrayed” as “death's” but given Oda’s writing style before these cases and since these cases, the likely scenario is Oda did not kill off Vergo and Monet. Rock and Scotch were also left on Punk Hazard and presumably succumbed to the Shinokuni Gas but they are likely still alive. There are several reasons for why I believe Monet and Vergo are alive with one of them being this comment from Law:

    Spoiler:

    Oda does not want to associate Law with the concept of murder which is why he has not had Law kill any characters yet. Given how Law was directly involved in Vergo’s situation at the end of the Punk Hazard and indirectly involved with Monet’s scenario when he handed her heart back Caesar, if both of those characters were killed, Law would have been responsible to an extent for both of their deaths. Add this to Oda’s writing style and those are the reasons why I don’t believe Vergo and Monet are dead. Law aka. “Surgeon of Death” will continue to be a character that does not kill. This is even more relevant after chapter 996.

    Fake outs:
    • The Shinokuni Gas victims - Oda revealed at the end of the Punk Hazard that the gas has a weakness. None of the G-5 Marines or prisoners affected by the gas died.
    Also important to note, Law helped the kids and removed the poison from their bodies. The kids were then taken to Vegapunk to be fully cured.
    • Dressrosa Citizens; and
    • Diamente (hit his head and began bleeding from it after his defeat from Kyros)
    The arc that featured one of the most brutal, bloodthirtsty and sadistic antagonist in the One Piece story led to zero present time casuallties. In order to avoid characters from dying both named and unnamed, Oda introduced Mansherry and her Chiyu Chiyu no Mi which allowed her to heal any wound or injury. As a result, even with Doflamingo’s birdcage and his intention to kill everyone, no one in Dressrosa died.

    Yonko Saga (ongoing): Number of present time character deaths (as at chapter 996): 2
    • Jigra; and
    • Shimotsuki Yasuie
    Once Carrot and/or Pekoms inherits Pedro's will, he will join Jigra and Yasuie on the list.

    I have not included Absalom in the list of dead characters because I not so sure he is dead. The manner in how Oda has portrayed his apparent “death” is curiously suspicious. Why would Oda tease us with his death and not show us his body? If Oda wanted to, he could have had the Blackbeard Pirates exhibit Absalom’s corpse to Moria. The fact that Oda chose to keep Absalom’s body hidden is very conspicuous. It has been expressed throughout the series that in order to attain a Devil Fruit power which was already in the possession of another person, one would have to kill the user of that Devil Fruit. But when you think about it, so to was the fact that a person can only consume one Devil Fruit ability but Teach changed all that. What happens if Teach has discovered or developed a way in which to strip a person of their Devil Fruit ability without killing them? The Yami Yami no Mi can already nullify the ability users power, what happens if Teach developed his abilities further and is now able to suck the Devil Fruit power out of the individual? If Linlin’s Devil Fruit is able to suck the life out of someone while keeping them alive, why wouldn’t there be a fruit that is able to suck the power out of someone and also keep them alive i.e. Yami Yami no Mi? Until we see a corpse, I am of the mindset that Absalom is not 100% confirmed dead. Absalom’s life could also be what Teach leverages against Moria to force him to work with him. Or there is also zombie Absalom.

    Jigra was an exposition character for Katakuri's introduction.

    Yasuie’s final speech united the Wano Kuni rebels against Orochi and Kaido and inspired those listening that change is possible. Yasuie’s death helped expose the inability of Orochi and his cowardice. The manner in how Orochi reacted conveyed to the people how fearful Orochi was of his reality and how unfit he is as their Shogun. Yasuie helped to throw confusion on Orochi’s schemes when Orochi received information from Kanjuro. As for Yasuie’s will, it has been inherited by the Akazaya Nine, the people of Kuri and even by Toko once she comes to terms with her father’s life having ended. Kaido and his Beast Pirates will be defeated and the Wano Kuni borders will be opened. All that Yasuie fought for will be achieved.

    Unconfirmed status:
    • Ginrummy;
    • Sheepshead;
    • Pekoms;
    • Bobbin;
    • Du Feld;
    • Charlotte Opera;
    • Kingbaum;
    • Pedro (just waiting on Carrot...to inherit his will);
    • Absalom;
    • Germa 66
    Fake outs:
    • The Minks (when affected by the Koro gas Jack released);
    • Moscato;
    • Pound;
    • Jinbe;
    • Sun Pirates (considering Jinbe's content self, they are safe);
    • Orochi;
    • Kanjuro
    Not even Moscato who was portrayed (chapter 829) as having been killed when he was attacked by Big Mom when she went on a Hunger Rampage. Moscato shows up later in the arc alive on the Queen Mama Chanter (chapter 901).
    There was also the incident with Pound and how his actions against Oven appeared to have led to his execution but as illustrated through the “Gang” Bege’s Oh My Family cover story, Pound is still alive and has reunited with his daughters.

    Having looked at the characters who Oda has had killed in the present time, they are either: unnamed character, exposition characters that set up the threat of the antagonist, or named characters whose death contributes significantly to the development of the story and whose will ends up being inherited by an existing character(s) within the story.

    The difference between exposition characters and the other named characters lie primarily in the importance they serve within the story of One Piece. If an exposition character were removed, their omittance would not change the story of One Piece at all.

    With those characters whose fates have not yet been fully confirmed, as much as some of those characters have been portrayed as being killed, one has to interpret their fates through the writing style of Oda. As for their deaths contributing significantly to the development of the story, the only character present in that list that could serve such a function is Pedro. If Pedro’s will is inherited by Carrot (and Pekoms) and that becomes a reason for Carrot to pursue a certain path, than Pedro’s death would have served an important purpose within the story and at the same time allow his will to continue living on through Carrot (and Pekoms).

    None of the other characters in the above list have had characters close to them introduced that could end up inheriting their wills. As such, I do not believe at this point in time Vergo, Monet, Sheepshead, Ginrummy, Pekoms, Bobbin, Du Feld, Charlotte Opera, Kingbaum and Absalom have been killed off yet. They will at some point in some form appear again in the One Piece manga.

  6. #2626

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Quote Originally Posted by MiyamotoMusashi View Post
    Why does Law need to influence Luffy?
    He doesn't need to, but I'm giving you an example of how it can happen, and I think that's the most obvious way for this to play out. I'm trying to not be too specific about the hows and whys, but there should be a role for Law as a D., as someone who is curious about his bloodline and mission. You see, Law's role in Dressrosa and his future role as an ally against the WG don't need him to be a D. at all, so why is he? We have to wonder why Oda decided to make him part of the lineage, what's the plan, how this will be used as a device in the narrative, in which way Law can contribute not only as a fighter, but as vessel for a thematic development.

    Since Luffy is the protagonist and the bringer of the Dawn, not Law, then it makes sense that Law's role is to influence Luffy or, alternatively, to digest that plotline through his point of view before Luffy does what he wil do anyway.

    Anyway, it´s not about Law learning about it in newspapers, pretty sure we will see something related to CoO or something similar that spreads the truth, not my idea to be honest, don´t remember who came up with it, but the person underlined that Rayleigh mentioning every person having CoO will not stay irrelevant.
    What? I have no idea what you're talking about.

    Law leaving Wa No and saying he will look for the last RP is good enough, i do not agree with the need of seeing him in any capacity for the narration.
    Might as well argue all Ds will be there (or need to be there) since they all are influenced by the weird fate Sengoku alluded to and which Law mentioned in the latest chapter, admittedly do not share the degree of interest as Law in it, but still. Dragon makes sense considering his goal, or Garp learning for whom he has worked all these years (though apparently he has no illusions regarding the Tenryuubito anyway).
    I never thought we needed him at all for anything post-Wano... I just think that's the direction we're going now that Oda is building up this premise. Obviously, there are other possible outcomes, but if Law is alive for the endgame, then it makes sense for him to board the Sunny for Laugh Tale.

    Btw, Law already knows that Laugh Tale is where he needs to go to find out about the D., and he knows that he needs the Road Poneglyphs, and he knows that he needs someone to read it, and he knows that he can't beat Luffy in this goal. What makes the most sense for him is to go with Luffy. Law is not like Kid who is still trying to measure himself against Luffy, and it doesn't look like he wants to become the Pirate King or something like that. Law cares more about accomplishing other kinds of goals.

    Luffy being involved or rather stimulated into action by personal investment is a constant theme throughout the story, which you also alluded to, but i see no reason why Luffy needs to care about the bigger picture at the end of the story when he has never cared before. The essential part has always been about the implication of Luffy´s actions, never about his directly and consciously targeted goal.
    He did not beat Croc because he cared about Ancient Weapon or Alabasta per se, it was about Vivi mostly.
    Did not prevent the WG getting the only one to awake the ACs, he got a friend back, and the list goes on.
    It has almost always been a fortunate by-effect that whatever Luffy wanted personally coincided with the greater good (except maybe Impel Down).
    I doubt this will ever change significantly. To be fair, Wa No had him play Robin Hood for an instance, but once again what drew him into action was really only Tama.
    Sure, I agree. That's why we need Law to play this role in Luffy's place. We need a narrative vessel who cares about this deeper thematic reasons (and who has been present in the story), like Wiper who was crying at the end because maybe Noland and Calgara could be hearing the bell ringing from heaven.

  7. #2627

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jabra View Post
    Artificial Male Dragon

    +

    Mythical Hito Hito no Mi - Model Kijo

    "Kijo is a broad term that in its most general sense encompasses any female demon, just as the term oni can technically refer to any male demon. Indeed, the name kijo is formed simply by combining the two kanji for oni and woman. They work solo, and have their own motives. Further, kijo and oni are not commonly seen together."

    Oh, too bad, you fall in Nyannichuan. Spring of Drowned Girl. There very tragic legend of a young girl who drown there 1500 year ago. Now whoever fall in spring take body of a young girl...
    To support Viz hosting all Jump manga for FREE and day of release, Arlong Park will now support the official release.
    https://www.viz.com/shonenjump

    Official chapter discussions now start Sundays at Noon, EST.
    Please do not post threads when scan sites release their version, and just discuss those releases in the spoiler thread.

  8. #2628

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Quote Originally Posted by theackwardstation View Post
    He doesn't need to, but I'm giving you an example of how it can happen, and I think that's the most obvious way for this to play out. I'm trying to not be too specific about the hows and whys, but there should be a role for Law as a D., as someone who is curious about his bloodline and mission. You see, Law's role in Dressrosa and his future role as an ally against the WG don't need him to be a D. at all, so why is he? We have to wonder why Oda decided to make him part of the lineage, what's the plan, how this will be used as a device in the narrative, in which way Law can contribute not only as a fighter, but as vessel for a thematic development.

    Since Luffy is the protagonist and the bringer of the Dawn, not Law, then it makes sense that Law's role is to influence Luffy or, alternatively, to digest that plotline through his point of view before Luffy does what he wil do anyway.



    What? I have no idea what you're talking about.



    I never thought we needed him at all for anything post-Wano... I just think that's the direction we're going now that Oda is building up this premise. Obviously, there are other possible outcomes, but if Law is alive for the endgame, then it makes sense for him to board the Sunny for Laugh Tale.

    Btw, Law already knows that Laugh Tale is where he needs to go to find out about the D., and he knows that he needs the Road Poneglyphs, and he knows that he needs someone to read it, and he knows that he can't beat Luffy in this goal. What makes the most sense for him is to go with Luffy. Law is not like Kid who is still trying to measure himself against Luffy, and it doesn't look like he wants to become the Pirate King or something like that. Law cares more about accomplishing other kinds of goals.



    Sure, I agree. That's why we need Law to play this role in Luffy's place. We need a narrative vessel who cares about this deeper thematic reasons (and who has been present in the story), like Wiper who was crying at the end because maybe Noland and Calgara could be hearing the bell ringing from heaven.
    Depends on how much Oda had planned for that to happen. As Oda admitted himself, he had not planned for Law to stay relevant this much, so him being a D can easily be something he used to tie in both his statement from the pre-TS (Shabondy) and to create another layer for the fight against Doflamingo.
    You can easily ask why Oda decided to make Saul a D, or Rouge. Sure these guys are flashback characters, but them being Ds did not really serve a purpose beyond easy tie-ins, like Ace´s name for example, though you could have also said that´s the part he took from Roger for example.
    So i do not see the necessity of it being an overarching and overly relative thing to be honest.

    Rephrasing: It has been a constant theme that the citizens of an island Luffy is rescuing learn the truth about their situation while the fight is either built up or is on-going.
    So pretty sure somehow the world will learn about the truth about the void history by some means while everything is going down, and one possibility is that it is transmitted somehow through CoO with connecting the whole world to it.

    See above. I do not see the necessity.
    Him trying to find the last RP is good enough, like i said.

    That´s everyone else.

  9. #2629

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jabra View Post
    Artificial Male Dragon

    +

    Mythical Hito Hito no Mi - Model Kijo

    "Kijo is a broad term that in its most general sense encompasses any female demon, just as the term oni can technically refer to any male demon. Indeed, the name kijo is formed simply by combining the two kanji for oni and woman. They work solo, and have their own motives. Further, kijo and oni are not commonly seen together."

    Oh cool, I've never heard of those before

    what made you think she'd be one of these?

  10. #2630

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Quote Originally Posted by MiyamotoMusashi View Post
    unless it´s really about the immortality surgery, which i doubt will come into play.
    I been convinced that it will for some time now, and I always thought that the only one who make sense to be given immortality is Robin, that way you keep the poneglyph language alive forever, and its kinda ironic that the lone survivor of a genocide gets to live forever.

    Law and Robin do have some kind of relationship and get along pretty well.

    it's almost certain that in the last battle of the series, Robin is getting fatally wounded and Law poetically saves her with Perennial Youth Operation.

  11. #2631
    Your long-lost brother Jabra's Avatar
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    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post
    Oh, too bad, you fall in Nyannichuan. Spring of Drowned Girl. There very tragic legend of a young girl who drown there 1500 year ago. Now whoever fall in spring take body of a young girl...
    Oh, too bad, we all fall in Nyannichuan. Spring of Wrong Pronouns! There very tragic legend of community who drown there 2 months ago. Now whoever fall in spring can't choose between he she AND it...
    Very tragic...!

    Quote Originally Posted by Shiebs View Post
    Oh cool, I've never heard of those before

    what made you think she'd be one of these?
    Before I want to go on I must say that it's amazing what kind of combinations are possible at this point. Like, my proposal is kind of "out there", but it's completely within the limits of the world.

    - There are artificial Dragons that have ties to Vegapunk, Punk Hazard and thus Kaido.

    - Kaido is referred to as a creature, he's not human. It's a unique treatment he shares with Chopper, no other Zoan user ever lost his "humanity" in the public eye / narrative. Even oversized humanoid monsters like Big Mom are considered human, even the Impel Down Awakened Zoans were considered people, the last Pirate King was considered the strongest man in the world - despite being called a monster among monsters.

    - And it's deliberate, Kaido's nature was even a cliffhanger at some point. That's why I believe a Dragon Zoan for Kaido is just too easy for this kind of tease.

    Now to Yamato, another character who's intentionally hard to put in a box. He wants to be considered male, but looks like a stunning female (and apparently doesn't fight against that look either... maybe because he can't?), who aspires to become a male Samurai he heard some stories about.
    And everyone treats Yamato as he wants to be treated: as Kaido's son. Kaido himself considers him his son, Kaido's underlings consider him male, everyone is playing along with the exception of his Oden shtick - despite Yamato being visibly female. Very much so.
    Which means that Kaido is the best dad ever and the Beast Pirates the most considerate group of people in One Piece - which would be great -

    *OR*

    Yamato is male. Simple as that, he's a male Dragon who ate a Hito Zoan. Like that foxdude Onimaru (probably), like Kaido (maybe). That's why Kaido doesn't question the "I'm male!" thing - because Yamato is factually his son no matter which fruit he ate. Just like Chopper will never not be a male reindeer, even after eating the standard Hito model.

    Now, why would at least Yamato be a Mythical Hito user, why can't it be like... an Ancient Model? Hito Hito no Mi - Horned Human!!? Well, maybe that's also an option, but then we would enter a series-first, which I would like to avoid in theories: We don't have regular Zoans based on sex. If you eat a lame Giraffe Zoan you will be a lame Giraffe, not a specifically female or male Giraffe.

    But! What we have is the Mythical "anything goes" category. Well maybe not literally anything, you do have to dig in some legends and folktales for it to be cool, but here the look of the transformation can be specifically linked to a male or female appearance. If someone eats the Mythical Hito Hito no Mi - Model Bhudda, then he or she will transform into a massive Bhudda statue. Maybe you will retain some of your original features, but all in all you'll look like a fat man.

    ___________

    Alright, with all that said let me answer your original question, Shiebs: Why do I think that Yamato is one of these Kijo, a female Oni?

    Well, first I think I'm not the only one who expected pendants to Sengoku's divine Mythical Zoan at some point. A dark version, the devil, a demon. You name it. And then you read up on Oni (because Onigashima, Momotaro & stuff), which finally leads you to Kijo, and then suddenly everything falls into place. My own memories of female demons in other manga/anime, the description in the article above, the images that show up when I google Kijo, portraying pretty women turning into ugly creatures or they wear horrific masks (like Yamato).

    Anyway. It might very well be that things are falling into place because I want them to, Yamato's business could be something else entirely. But two things I'm 100% sure of:

    - The vague nature and heritage of Kaido and Yamato is deliberate, we're supposed to wonder what the hell is going on here - even if the most simple answer turns out to be correct

    - Even if Yamato has no Mythical Oni Zoan, his theme is at least partially influenced by the stuff I wrote and linked above.
    Last edited by Jabra; November 24th, 2020 at 12:13 AM.

  12. #2632
    Chocolate or raisins? Coookie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    I don't think that Yamato is a male dragon/oni that ate a specifically female Devil Fruit. For one his intro box said "Kaido's daughter", and when Yamato takes off his mask Luffy exclaims "You said 'son', right?", to which Yamato replies "Well, Kozuki Oden was a man, wasn't he? So I chose to be a man too". If Yamato was a male non-human creature that got a female appearance via Devil Fruit, he probably would've explained it like that. But instead he said it's a conscious choice because Oden was male

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  13. #2633

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Quote Originally Posted by Syphin View Post
    Big list of deaths
    Good list, although you forgot the Fake Straw Hat Pirates. With the exception of Fake Luffy, Robin and Chopper (who all got caught by the Marines) Caribou captured and buried the rest alive. Also Oars Jr died at Marineford as well.

    Also I'm not sure some of those really count. I think there is a difference between not knowing someone's status or someone being defeated in battle and Oda giving us a fake-out death. I wouldn't say Spandam had a fake-out death just because we know that breaking bones isn't a recipe for death, otherwise Usopp should've died a long time ago. Just because the Nyanban brothers were defeated doesn't mean they were said to have died. And with Jinbei and the Sun Pirates, as well as Germa 66, I wouldn't say Oda had set any of them up to die. Yeah their status is unknown and maybe one or two of them do die (I doubt but the possibility is there) but I don't think that's a situation that can be compared to the likes of Pedro or Monet where all the signs point at them having died. The Minks as well are absolutely not a Fake Out death in any way. We saw they were alive in the present before it flashbacked to their situation. Orochi and Kanjuro are also unconfirmed at this moment in time (although we all expect it to end up as fake outs. It's confirmed yet though). Devil Dias is also unconfirmed, not a fake-out. The marines took his body away and never comment on if he is alive or not, and he is never seen again. He should be dead, but no one checks to make sure.

  14. #2634

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Oda used fake out. It's not very effective...

  15. #2635

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfwood View Post
    Oda used fake out. It's not very effective...

    Fans hurt from confusion
    Here’s how Naruto should end: Last panel is Naruto standing proudly over Konohagakure. Slowly zoom out to reveal Luffy staring into a snowglobe with a miniature Konoha inside it. Usopp asks him what he’s doing. Luffy replies “Thinkin’ bout ninjas! Ninjas are cool!” and then chucks it off the ship

  16. #2636

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Unless Oda clarified in an SBS at some point and I've forgotten it, the Meowban brothers are actually pretty likely dead. It was explicitly stated in the text, back when Oda was still willing to kill characters.

    Zoro chops em both up, the fat one survives and gets back up, its commented on that "he's not dead?"? implying they were thought to be and that the other one IS dead. Then he gets chopped up more, and then he's down Neither of them are are seen on panel getting back up later, or fleeing with the other pirates, or shown going to jail after the fight, or still with Kuro, or revealed to still be alive in a cover later.

    With modern Oda we'd be able to just assume their comrades picked them up and carried them to a doctor... but modern Oda would also have fit that detail into the background somewhere.

    Zoro killed them, they were observed to be killed by main character witnesses, nothing contradicted it. Same with a lot of the bounty hunters at Whiskey Peak.

    Oda obviously started shifting away from that after Alabasta as he grew to appreciate the age of his audience more, as he went in the complete opposite direction of no deaths ever. Those soldiers that suicided themselves on Crocodile are pretty much the last major casual death in the series. (Even the deaths that can be fairly assumed o Skypiea are undercut by Geddatsu surviving his fall and Wiper taking three fatal hero attacks in a row.)

    But there was death left and right early on.
    Last edited by Robby; November 24th, 2020 at 03:29 AM.
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  17. #2637
    Discovered Stowaway Syphin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Quote Originally Posted by black-leg jex View Post
    Good list, although you forgot the Fake Straw Hat Pirates. With the exception of Fake Luffy, Robin and Chopper (who all got caught by the Marines) Caribou captured and buried the rest alive. Also Oars Jr died at Marineford as well.

    Also I'm not sure some of those really count. I think there is a difference between not knowing someone's status or someone being defeated in battle and Oda giving us a fake-out death. I wouldn't say Spandam had a fake-out death just because we know that breaking bones isn't a recipe for death, otherwise Usopp should've died a long time ago. Just because the Nyanban brothers were defeated doesn't mean they were said to have died. And with Jinbei and the Sun Pirates, as well as Germa 66, I wouldn't say Oda had set any of them up to die. Yeah their status is unknown and maybe one or two of them do die (I doubt but the possibility is there) but I don't think that's a situation that can be compared to the likes of Pedro or Monet where all the signs point at them having died. The Minks as well are absolutely not a Fake Out death in any way. We saw they were alive in the present before it flashbacked to their situation. Orochi and Kanjuro are also unconfirmed at this moment in time (although we all expect it to end up as fake outs. It's confirmed yet though). Devil Dias is also unconfirmed, not a fake-out. The marines took his body away and never comment on if he is alive or not, and he is never seen again. He should be dead, but no one checks to make sure.
    Ah, the Fake Straw Hat Pirates...them...I've been actively avoiding remembering them. Yeah, they seemed as if they were good as dead based on Caribou's comments the last time we seen them but we didn't get any execution scenes just talk and Coribou digging. Their deaths were implied but...if they showed up again, I wouldn't be surprised. As for Devil Dias, I interpreted the information provided about Dias being taken by the Marines to be healed as evidence that he survived (an out Oda had written for Dias's character). But yeah, no 100% confirmation in that moment.

    With Little Oars Jr. I don't see him as being dead. His body was left bloodied and unresponsive the last time we seen him during the Marineford War but considering when Shanks arrived, he only mentioned handling the burials for Whitebeard and Ace, I am led to believe that Little Oars Jr wasn't dead that point. There is no reason why Little Oars Jr wouldn't have been included alongside Whitebeard and Ace if he were dead. Shanks is likely friends with many Giants (Elbaf is his territory?) so I don't think he hates Giants. The lack of a grave marker in chapter 590 pretty much confirms to me that Little Oars Jr is not dead otherwise, the hero who gave his life to try oo save Ace, would have had a glorious grave right next to Whitebeard and Ace.

    With the events on Zou and in Totto Land, I was trying to illustrate the point that Oda attempted to make the readers feel apprehension towards the danger present in the arcs. On Zou, Jack was introduced, the first character whose bounty was shown to exceed nine figures. With such a danger present, it wouldn't have been surprising if some of the Mink's not shown in the present were killed. But unfortunately, with the manner in how present time deaths in One Piece has been handled, such thoughts are easily discarded. It becomes hard to feel any tension or suspense when characters are at deaths door.

    During the Fishman Island, the New Fishman Pirates were popping Energy Steroids like candy and Decken sent Noah flying toward the Island. No one died.
    During the Punk Hazard Arc, the Shinokuni Gas was built up as a killer gas that Caesar spent years perfecting. At the end of the arc, a weakness allowing everyone affected to survive was revealed. No one died.
    During the Dressroas Arc, Doflamingo activated his bird cage with the intent to kill everyone. Mansherry was introduced to heal anyone close to death. No one died.
    During the Zou Arc, Jack arrived, released the Koro Gas and tortured the Mink for an entire day. Enter Caesar and Chopper. No one died.
    During the Whole Cake Island Arc, Big Mom suffered from her Hunger Pangs (twice!) and went on a crazed rampage attacking and destroying anything and everything in her path. Big Mom ripped the souls out of several characters. No one has been confirmed to have died.
    During the Wano Kuni Arc, the Mummy Plague was introduced. Thanks to Chopper, no one died. Now we have the Ice Oni Plague. No one is going to die.
    At this point, I don't even feel any tension towards the battle the Akazaya Nine are having against Kaido (the STRONGEST creature) because I don't believe any of them will die. Further set-up is required to led to their deaths.

    Anyway. I disagree with the point on all signs pointing to Monet's death. There is evidence in panel and through Oda's writing style that supports Monet being alive.

    In regards to Pedro, he is on the edge of being 100% dead. All that needs to happen is for Carrot to simply say "I will fight for Pedro's dream. His death was not for nothing."

  18. #2638

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    Maybe Oars carcass was the burial ground used to bury Whitestache and Poochie.

    It was what he would've wanted

  19. #2639
    Discovered Stowaway Syphin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    That's some spicy twist.

  20. #2640

    Default Re: Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

    I think Oars Jr. was simply not mentioned because his death didn't have the gravitas of Whitebeard and Ace's. But as it stands, we can't assume he survived just because he wasn't mentioned by Shanks. Last we saw Oars Jr he was stabbed through the head by Moria and then laid there as a corpse, forgotten by everyone including Oda. If he ever shows up again then maybe we will get the explanation that his body was somehow removed and he was healed off-screen but that seems unlikely. There were many casualties during Marineford, just most of them were unnamed. But not all of them.

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