Next Straw Hat Crewmates (Vol. 8 - Onigashima)

[black-leg jex]

^ This.

Fact is, all of the Straw Hats are off doing their own thing in this fight. Luffy, Sanji and Jinbe left the others to climb the castle. Nami and Usopp left the others to go distract Ulti and Page One. Franky left the others to keep Hatcha from causing havoc for everyone. And Carrot left the others to deal with Perospero, who is a threat to everyone. Dealing with Perospero still helps the overall cause and allows Oda to continue Carrot's own personal storyline.

The fact is, if Carrot didn't go to fight Perospero and ended up fighting someone like Who's Who or just random mooks like Robin and Brook are doing then people would probably complain that it was a missed opportunity by Oda to have Carrot try and get revenge. He has to get someone to deal with Perospero so why not Carrot? It's better she does it than someone with no connection to him.

[Dorobō Neko]

I actually feel a little bad for Perospero here.

Yes it makes story sense that Carrot and Wanda are going to take him out.

I just wish he would be defeated by someone cooler? His powers are very neat and not to sound like a battle power level nerd here but I just feel he deserves better than to be beat up and clawed at by secondary character with uninteresting power sets.

Though knowing how things are lately the whole fight will be skipped.

[Shift]

It's already too late, she should have realized it sooner.
As I said a couple of weeks ago, as soon as she got the opportunity to revenge Pedro, she took it and left the Strawhats, instead of staying and helping them.
Yamato is following Luffy's orders without question and does her best to help them, and Tama even put herself in danger to help Nami and Usopp...
Carrot just messed up. Carrot doesn't help anyone but herself by defeating Perospero.

I'm sorry, but she disqualifies herself.

Disqualified? For going after a dangerous enemy who needs to be taken down regardless of the reason?

Like black-leg jex said, Carrot went after an opponent like everyone else did and needed to do. The fact that it's personal doesn't make it unnecessary. My original point was that she'll possibly separate the revenge aspect from it. And maybe she won't, fair enough. But if it wasn't too late to introduce Yamato, and it wasn't too late to bring Tama to Onigashima, it certainly isne to late for Carrot to have her revelation.

Why did Pedro die in front of Carrot? To teach Carrot something important. If she hasn't learned it yet, her story isn't over.

The way you people talk about Carrot learning the need to follow the SHs makes it sound more like a chore than something she actually wishes she could do. For personal reasons. Because she really likes being there, with them.

"You people..." What is this, A Few Good Men? lol

Carrot is friends with the Straw Hats, that goes without saying. Who's implying that helping them would go against something in her?

Meanwhile Yamato is going full Bartolomeo and gushing about meeting the SHs in person and getting to be part of their crew. She is living the dream of being a SH as we speak.

Yeah, and we all know how it went for Bartolomeo... Tell me, would you want to spend all your time with someone who hero-worships you, who studied every available detail about you beforehand? Personally, I'd find it creepy.

This also ties back with another big issue in that Carrot lacks a character conflict. All the strawhats have one. Her theoretical conflict is related to the overall plot, not to her own person. It's she realizing she wants to fulfill the plot, and unlike the other 20 or so characters who also realized that, deciding she wants to be part of it. But Carrot herself doesn't have a personal dream or conflict or issue that connects her to the sea or the strawhats. It could easily be Wanda deciding to be the one to fulfill Pedro's will instead.

Wanda was not there. She didn't hear what Pedro said when he died. We didn't see her with him when Roger was on the island. We don't know what she personally knows about his dreams, or how Carrot explained his death to her.

We know a lot more about what Carrot knows and wants than Wanda. Wanda fulfilling Pedro's will by herself would not make narrative sense, because it's Carrot we've been following all this time, not Wanda.

That only let us all in the same state we've been since forever of 'constantly waiting'.

It would be weird if Carrot/Wanda actually win, while everyone else is losing their battles, and with no SH's around!, Jeez, is Luffy ever gon see her Sulong(?)

Since the Sulong its limited, and Peros is too strong, I would say she's gonna get trapped in candy, to drag her moment a little longer and at a moment where most of all official versuses are happening. Right now, it does seem like inevitable defeat.

What can I say? Jinbe conditioned me to be patient with these things.

And no, I don't think they're set to need saving, either. I can't be sure if Luffy will see any Sulong in action at this point, since Dog and Cat are on the ropes. But if he sees anyone, it'll be Carrot.

[Dorobō Neko]

Also on the topic of power sets? No way is anyone going to join when they are only useful for a fight while the moon is out.

Uninteresting power set that is only at its best situationally?

I mean all this talk of character goals and such is stretching it as is but her power set needs a lot of work before anyone could take her seriously as an option.

[Shiebs]

The moon thing is less a deal breaker to me than the claws with electricity as a fighting style is

We know Oda loves to give all his main characters a huge variety of attacks, look at how many unique pop greens Usopp has or the different attacks and gears Luffy does with his powers, I just don’t know how much variety you can do with claws and electricity

Then again Oda managed to make a lot of attacks from a guy who only uses his legs and a guy who uses three swords, way more variety than I could have ever imagined, so knowing how creative and crafty Oda is it’s not impossible he’d make a unique fighter out of Carrot

[Dorobō Neko]

Yeah agreed that her power set in general is not great.

As for what else can be done? I don't know, I am sure Oda could do more for her but it becomes a question of if he wants to go to the effort here.

Yamato has a form we have not seen yet. And whatever it is, it's probably going to open a lot more up for them.

[Robby]

THe difference between the strawhats all completing their own goals and Carrot dealing with Preospero is... he was singlehandedly dragged fromm Big Mom's crew and wedged into the narrative *entirely* to get to his dangling plot thread.

He didn't arrive with the rest of Big Mom's forces, he couldn't wait till the next arc, he didn't present an immediate threat, he's just a random side obstacle that doesn't connect to anything else in the arc. Meanwhile Cracker and Smoothie and Katakuri and other big threats all just... wait on the ship at the bottom of the waterfall like a neverending joke.

If they were all going to arrive into the arc later, Prospero could have come then instead of needing so much panel time to explain how he and he alone got there. If they're waiting for another arc entirely, then why not save the revenge against him until then if Carrot will still be around? Zoro has waited two decades to face Mihawk, and we've been waiting almost as long for the Blackbeard fights. And we're obviously getting back to Big Mom again later for Elbaf stuff and to wrap up Sanji and Pudding, so those characters are going to be relevant again. There's no harm in delaying a given enemy if its a long term thing.

There is ZERO narrative reason for Oda to have gone so far out of his way to have brought Prospero into the mix, by himself, except to check off a box because he won't be able to do it later. Otherwise, if he could only bring in one threat to make the situation instantly worse and scary, then why not Katakuri? (Similar to when he dropped Kuma into Thriller Bark) If he's was only trying to move along lingering story beats, why not Pudding, who has a carpet that could have flown her there without a weird subplot tied to Marco.?

One of the most relevant aspects to Yamato's character is her being aware of Luffy for over three years since her encounter with Ace. Yamato has known about Luffy longer than any of the other Straw Hat Pirates.

That is super relevant point that I hadn't even thought about. Helps overshadow the whole joining late thing. And she really is already going all in full faith on Luffy despite just meeting him. And the interaction with Franky, and Franky in turn completely going along with it on the spot, was great. As was "Oh yeah, the floor was an option!"

There's lots of promises of "Carrot will someday soon show this particular quality finally"... that Yamato is ALREADY showing and doing.

Carrot WILL appreciate the Dawn. Carrot WILL want to travel the world. Carrot WILL ask Luffy to travel with him.

Yamato already checks all those boxes and has already done it.
Also, whatever Yamato's power/transformation is, it's not going to be condition locked to once a month in a power up Oda has already decided is kind of plain and not worth a whole lot of spectacle anymore, he off paneled most of the mink fights against Jack!

Yamato is already doing teamwork and tag teaming with the crew and being trusted by them and handling one of the most important missions they have right now, protecting Momo. Carrot... got sidelined off panel for an entire year and is now being paired with another mink to finish mink business and that's it.

[theackwardstation]

The moon thing is less a deal breaker to me than the claws with electricity as a fighting style is

We know Oda loves to give all his main characters a huge variety of attacks, look at how many unique pop greens Usopp has or the different attacks and gears Luffy does with his powers, I just don’t know how much variety you can do with claws and electricity

Then again Oda managed to make a lot of attacks from a guy who only uses his legs and a guy who uses three swords, way more variety than I could have ever imagined, so knowing how creative and crafty Oda is it’s not impossible he’d make a unique fighter out of Carrot

The claws are cool and Carrot fights doing beautiful mid-air acrobatics. Her fights will never be visually boring as long as Oda nails the drawings.

[Dorobō Neko]

Robby is hitting the nail on the head of this whole topic at the moment.

I am mostly thinking Yamato is going to join because.... she already feels like a crewmember. From her design to the story beats. No one since Jinbe has felt this way.

[Shiebs]

The claws are cool and Carrot fights doing beautiful mid-air acrobatics. Her fights will never be visually boring as long as Oda nails the drawings.

Your missing my point entirely
Each Straw Hat has a wide variety of moves that are extremely different, so they don't get stale

look at Zoro, he can use all three swords to do cool swordsmanship stuff like (Oni Giri and tiger hunting) but he can also create a whirlwind from spinning his blades so fast (Dragon Twister), he can even put away two swords and do a single sword strike that was his only attack for a while that could cut steel and also has a super cool finishing pose (Lion Song), he can increase the muscle in his right and left arm and then use his swords more as a punching attack (one gorilla two gorilla), he can even make projectiles with his swords using wind pressure (36 pound cannon) and then he even has 9 swords demon mode (Ashura)

another example is Sanji, in arlong park he starts his attack by using a lethal combination of fast attacks and then finishing with a big hit (Collier coup, Epaule Sprawl, Cotelette kabosh, Selle De Ouch, Poitrine Treader, Gigot Charlie Le Horse, and then finishes with Mouton Mallet) he has a move where he does a hand stand on a guys head then spins around kicking anyone nearby (party table kick course) he has one move he only uses on giants where he kicks them with his leg straight up and sends the massive opponents who are way bigger than him into the air (anti manner kick course) he has another set of moves that end in a lethal finisher simmilar to what he did to kurrobi but with Bon Clay (Basses Cote Blast, Longe Lasher, Tendron Tenderizer, Flanchet, Quasi Cracker, Queue Crippler, Cuisseau Crusher Jarret Jarrer then finshes with Veau Vengence) he does a move where he jumps high into the air and spins like a ball until he lands his foot on his oppents head using the momentum from the spin to crush there skull (Concasser Crush) and a whole bunch of other moves

and remember, this was all before he could do Diable Jambe, which he can now spin so fast his foot lights on literal fire and increasses his speed and power tremendously

and that was all before he got the raid suit, which can make him faster and invisble

each straw hat is like this, they have a huge variety of moves and keep getting new power ups/techinques so that there moves never get stale

so my question is how many diffrent moves/intresting attacks can carrot do with electic gloves

the only reason this isn't a deal breaker for her joining for me is because I never would have had the creativity to think up half those attacks for Zoro and Sanji in the first place let alone the other straw hats (Usopp's Pop Greens are crazy!!!) so just cause I can't imagine a whole set of cool moves for carrot doesn't mean Oda can't

[theackwardstation]

so my question is how many diffrent moves/intresting attacks can carrot do with electic gloves

The answer is very simple: Carrot can have as many difference moves/interesting attacks as Oda wants. What makes a cool attack is a more matter of showing a striking pose that looks cool in a static shot, like Sanji, who with his feets alone have many different cool finishers and random kicks.

Anyway, we shouldn't be comparing Carrot against characters who have been explored in fights across 1000 chapters and that had to be constantly reinvented in order to keep being fresh. Of course it's essential that a main character have a cool fighting style, but a cool fighting style is not equal to quantity of moves. Quantity is only something that's added over time as the author needs to keep coming up with new moves to not let his characters get stale... so we have power ups, new random moves, new developments, whatever. But even then, Oda is very repetitive, just look at Zoro, whose finishers have been looking virtually the same since the timeskip (against the Pacifista, Hyouzou, Monet, Pika and Killer).

The amount of different moves a character should have should be proportional to the amount of fights he'll have in the series. So how many fights do we expect a new Strawhat to have until the end of the series? Frankly, at most 3 fights, I guess, but maybe even less considering recent history. So we don't have to worry about a lot of moves. We only a need a tight visual style to make for cool coreography with a cool finisher at the end.

I believe Carrot has more than enough to look very promising considering her few action scenes. Her main feature is jumping, which she does in style, with flips and mid-air acrobatics, and everything looks beautiful and graceful, so we can imagine many cool poses for random moves and finishers. Besides jumping, the claws are unique to her and add flavor to her attacks (slashes), especially with electro. At last, there's the sulong transformation, which adds dynamics and suspense to the fight.

If she eventually needs something new, I'm sure Oda can figure it out too...

[Syphin]

I have stated this before (July) regarding Carrot's purpose but there is meaning behind the way she was introduced during the Zou Arc, her having met the Straw Hat Pirates, her journeying to Whole Cake Island and now her being present on Wano Kuni during the event that is about to shake the world completely. I still stand by my interpretation of Carrot's role from then. Carrot's exposure by Oda has been building her up as a close ally to the Straw Hat Pirates and a character who will grow into one assisting in bringing about "the dawn of the world". Not directly with the Straw Hat Pirates but alongside the allied forces they have accumulated across their journey. While Wano Kuni is the main Island during Momonosuke's journey that needs liberating, there is also Zou. And Carrot's role relates to that purpose - moving the nation forward alongside Wano Kuni.

Much like how Wano Kuni has been isolated for 800 years, so to has Zou. For a thousand years, the Mink community has not opened themselves up to the rest of the world. The Mink Tribe may not have prevented any of the Mink from leaving but they did not actively engage with other people/races/communities.

Spoiler:

There needs to be a character that will come along that will change the status quo and move the nation into the new dawn. Aside from Pedro and Carrot, none of the other Mink's have been developed to fill such a role (certainly not Inuarashi or Nekomamushi who could have saved Wano Kuni earlier if they reached out to the Roger Pirate remnants and the Whitebeard Pirates twenty years ago when they retreated back to Zou). Nekomamushi may be waiting for the dawn but he has not been developed into a character that will work alongside the Straw Hat Pirates to see it arise. With Pedro having fallen in Whole Cake Island, Carrot now embodies that character stationed to open Zou up. Pedro's goal was to lay the foundation for the "dawning of the world" for the people he believes can bring it about. Pedro saved the Straw Hat Pirates but he did not accomplish his goal. Rather it appears, Pedro's will has been inherited by Carrot. She will assist in laying the foundation for the Straw Hat Pirates and the Kozuki clan (Momonosuke and Hiyori) to help guide the world to the "dawn".

Thanks to the Straw Hat Pirates, Carrot was able to experience the world outside Zou and learn about it. Thanks to the Whole Cake Island Arc, Carrot was able to see how coexistence between different races can look. And thanks to the Wano Kuni Arc, Carrot will come to realise the importance of a nation bringing down its borders and opening itself up to the rest of the world.

Carrot had been introduced as the open-minded Mink curious about the rest of the world yet naive of the thorns hidden behind its beauty. That has changed through the course of Carrot's journey. Whole Cake Island was one of the defining moments for Carrot. With Pedro's sacrifice, she experienced the bitterness life holds and yet at the same time had a purpose ingrained in her whether she realises it or not (a "bittersweet" development indeed - the title of chapter 877). Carrot's actions now show a maturity in her that was not present before when she first boarded the Thousand Sunny. Even if her reasoning for targeting Perospero is wanting, she is resolute in her opposition against him. As for Wanda being present in the fight against Perospero, that too plays a significant role in Carrot's story. One of Carrot's mentor figure is now present with her to witness the growth she has had over the course of her journey. Wanda will come to understand Carrot is not the sheltered child she was before. Carrot has matured and is now beginning to thread forward on her own feet. With Wanda's endorsement of Carrot's capabilities, I can see Carrot becoming more prominent in the Mink society and ultimately becoming a representative for the Minks when they reach out to other nations and people going forward. Carrot did find the mingling of different races in Whole Cake Island incredibly fascinating.

Spoiler:

Looking at the type of coverage Carrot has had throughout her journey, I find myself noticing that whenever the Straw Hat Pirates were entering into alliances with others, Carrot was there to witness such events.

Spoiler:

Carrot was there when the Straw Hat Pirates befriended the Minks (including Pekoms);
Carrot was there when the Kin'emon revealed the bonds the Kozuki clan and the Mink tribe share;
Carrot was there when the Straw Hat Pirates met the Germa Kingdom (Reiju and Yonji) and witnessed Reiju save Luffy;
Carrot was there when the Straw Hat Pirates met Pudding and when Pudding declared to help them escape near the end of the arc;
Carrot was there when the Straw Hat Pirate met Pound and befriend him;
Carrot was there to see Jinbe helping the Straw Hat Pirates;
Carrot was there to hear the conversation between Nami and Chiffon with Chiffon being thankful to Nami for saving Lola;
Carrot was also there to witness Chiffon express to help the Straw Hat Pirates when Pudding picked up Sanji to help bake the cake;
Carrot was there to witness Luffy enter into an alliance with Gang Bege and "Gangster" Gastino;
Carrot was there to see Sanji save his family and accept their help during their crashing of Big Mom's tea party/wedding party;
Carrot was there to see Nami enslave Zeus;
Carrot was directly told by Pedro that he felt the Straw Hat Pirates were worth dying for - she will begin to understand why;
Carrot was there when Judge arrived with the Germa army to block the Big Mom Pirates in order for the Straw Hat Pirates to escape;
Carrot was there when the Fishman Pirates arrived to assist the Straw Hat Pirates escape;
Carrot was there to witness Jinbe use himself as a shield to ensure Luffy and Co. escape;
Carrot was there to witness Kin'emon open up about the events of the past;
Carrot was there to see Ashura's refusal to join the alliance and later him being part of it. Carrot also noted that there are others as strong as Inuarashi;
Carrot was there to see Drake cast his lot in with the Straw Hat Pirates;
Carrot has now met Marco and is aware that he is helping the Straw Hat Pirates

More focus has been given to Carrot understanding the power of bonds and connections than establishing her as a character deeply tied to an ordeal that requires the Straw Hat Pirates assistance to be liberated from.

If Oda wanted to develop Carrot as a Straw Hat nakama, I feel he would have included her in the discussion surrounding the Road Poneglyphs and the Straw Hat Pirates end goal. Or in the team battle the Straw Hat Pirates had when facing off against Big Mom. Such a battle showcased Jinbe's synergy with the crew, if Carrot were being developed as a future Straw Hat Pirate, this was the perfect opportunity to show how she synergises with [some] of the Straw Hat Pirates against a major opponent. Or in the events making up the first two acts of the Wano Kuni arc, especially Yasuie's execution. Or highlighted in the battle the Straw Hat Pirates had when taking the entrance of Onigashima Island. Or be focused on more when the whole crew assembled on the Live Floor. Or have Carrot enquire/wonder about the dawn Pedro was referring to (it has been around 15-16 days since Pedro's "death" in One Piece without Carrot showing any interest in it). Carrot would also have a story that is aligned with the Straw Hat Pirates mission on Onigashima opposed to an encounter that's tied more to clearing up her own conflicted mind. Ultimately, I believe Carrot's story going forward will only deviate away from being alongside the Straw Hat Pirates and turn into one where she assists them without traveling with them.

Once Carrot meets representatives of other nations, she could very well end up encouraging them to join with the Wano Kuni faction/alliance (with Momonosuke being the head that stands against Im and the World Government). If the World Government has targeted Vivi and made aggressive actions against her and Alabatsa, the support of other nations such as Dressrosa and Fishman Island could be wavering. Carrot could play a role in helping these nations side with Wano Kuni via meetings with Vivi, Shirahoshi, Rebecca/Viola/Manshelly. Additionally, I could see Carrot helping to establish a shared connection between the Wano Kuni faction and the vagrant nations such as the Germa Kingdom. Amazon Lily will also end up joining the Wano Kuni faction eventually.

Anyway that is my interpretation of Carrot's journey. I don't believe her role is merely a "revenge" based one but I also don't see her being developed as a future Straw Hat nakama.

[Gizmo]

He was though?
The first thing she says is this, basically saying she wants to open the country, hence fight on their side, and then follow Luffy to see the world.

Spoiler:

https://s6.mangabeast01.com/manga/On...e/0984-013.png

https://s6.mangabeast01.com/manga/On...e/0984-014.png

And in the next chapter, she says this, basically since she is Oden now, and Luffy is related to Ace, he is supposed to let her on his ship, basically to do the same as Oden and go out to the sea.

Spoiler:

https://s6.mangabeast01.com/manga/On...e/0985-008.png

https://s6.mangabeast01.com/manga/On...e/0985-009.png

She never implied that going out to sea is part of Oden´s will for Wa No, the dawn and all that is related to it, she says it as someone who wants to be Oden who got to go to sea and has seen all that he wrote down in his journal.
I mean sure, there could technically be something else that needs to be done, but this was neither implied, nor would it be appropriate if you ask me at this point when we are so close to the end, maybe that´s just me.

So following the dialogue strictly, she says Red Scabbards and Momo dead -> she needs to carry Oden´s will -> she will open the country against her father.
And Yama clearly says she has challenged her father many times, and was beaten many times and then put into prison and shackles.
So far, carrying Oden´s will has always been about opening up the country (see also Zou), articulated at his execution that the Scabbards and Yama witnessed.

you’re missing the key part at the end of the chapter where Kaidou essentially gave Yamato rule over Wano at the end of chapter 985 and he said hell no.

And even in the pictures you noted. He’s prioritizing travel over fulfilling Oden’s desires, as if traveling the seas is a prerequisite to completely fulfill Oden’s will.

[ArmamentHero]

Syphin, Robby, Doboro really hit my line thinking with Yamato.

I can't add much, but I'm sure Ace raved about Luffy during his stay on Wano however since Yamato wanted to travel with Ace, I'm sure shedidn't completely buy into Luffy at the time. I'm pretty positive the buy in must've been when Ace's death happened, Yamato probably witnesses it and all of Luffy's actions, that's probably what started it. Just my conjecture on it.

Also if Yamato is somehow connected to the weird Shanks and Kaidou clash from Amazon Lily, there's your foreshadow, big 'if' though.

[MiyamotoMusashi]

you’re missing the key part at the end of the chapter where Kaidou essentially gave Yamato rule over Wano at the end of chapter 985 and he said hell no.

And even in the pictures you noted. He’s prioritizing travel over fulfilling Oden’s desires, as if traveling the seas is a prerequisite to completely fulfill Oden’s will.

1) Would still be under Kaidou, meaning he would be another puppet just like Orochi was essentially, whereas Yamato literally wants to oppose her father. You are forgetting Yamato opposing her father based on Oden´s ideals for 20 years.
2) It´s not Wa No like Oden imagined, but New Onigashima, meaning it would stay the same it is now or even worse, just like Kaidou describes in his speech (still closed off, more factories, Wa No population turned into slaves).
Deducting that Yamato is refusing the role not because she is refusing her father for those reasons but because of some made-up reason outside of Wa No is very farfetched and not substantiated by anything to be frank.

She doesn´t, i clearly laid out what has been said.
Join the fight in order to beat Kaidou and Orochi and open the country, and then travel the world.
Neither has been shown to be more important than the other, but if anything, taking up Oden´s will to open up the country is taken up by her because the ones to do it are dead in her mind, meaning Scabbards and Momo.

--- Update From New Post Merge ---

Syphin, Robby, Doboro really hit my line thinking with Yamato.

I can't add much, but I'm sure Ace raved about Luffy during his stay on Wano however since Yamato wanted to travel with Ace, I'm sure shedidn't completely buy into Luffy at the time. I'm pretty positive the buy in must've been when Ace's death happened, Yamato probably witnesses it and all of Luffy's actions, that's probably what started it. Just my conjecture on it.

Also if Yamato is somehow connected to the weird Shanks and Kaidou clash from Amazon Lily, there's your foreshadow, big 'if' though.

Did she buy into Luffy completely yet? At least from what i remember, not yet.
She sees Luffy as someone strong and capable, but also as Ace´s brother still, and since Ace is dead, it´s logical that Luffy should be the one to give her a ride basically, this is where we stand. From what i gathered, she really wanted to travel with Ace but she got imprisoned for a long time (who knows how she met Ace then), and now that Ace is dead, she waited for Luffy instead.
Some people have said she is waiting for Luffy since she met Ace but i do not find this substantiated anywhere, more the opposite since she wanted to travel with Ace.
And then he died 2 years ago, so i would say she was hoping for Luffy since then.
I think she will buy into Luffy completely either when we get the Yamato equivalent of Luffy holding up Hililuk´s flag (for Chopper), Luffy´s declaration of war on WG (for Franky and Robin) and so on, or if she somehow believes Luffy is JB´s inheritor.

[Shift]

THe difference between the strawhats all completing their own goals and Carrot dealing with Preospero is... he was singlehandedly dragged fromm Big Mom's crew and wedged into the narrative *entirely* to get to his dangling plot thread.

He didn't arrive with the rest of Big Mom's forces, he couldn't wait till the next arc, he didn't present an immediate threat, he's just a random side obstacle that doesn't connect to anything else in the arc. Meanwhile Cracker and Smoothie and Katakuri and other big threats all just... wait on the ship at the bottom of the waterfall like a neverending joke.

We knew the confrontation between Carrot and Peros was coming for a long time. The whole fleet coming along was just the excuse to get BM and Peros, the main players in Carrot’s story, on the field.

If they were all going to arrive into the arc later, Prospero could have come then instead of needing so much panel time to explain how he and he alone got there. If they're waiting for another arc entirely, then why not save the revenge against him until then if Carrot will still be around?

Because he and BM are the direct cause of Carrot’s vendetta. She faces them now, and she’s free to do whatever it is she’s gonna do. That could be joining the SHs, it could be something else. But many of the other SHs faced the demons of their pasts before joining. That’s what Carrot’s doing now.

Zoro has waited two decades to face Mihawk, and we've been waiting almost as long for the Blackbeard fights.

Mihawk is his goal, not the cause of his trauma.

And we're obviously getting back to Big Mom again later for Elbaf stuff and to wrap up Sanji and Pudding, so those characters are going to be relevant again. There's no harm in delaying a given enemy if its a long term thing.

If you think BM will be present in Elbaf, that is. As I’ve said, I don’t.

There is ZERO narrative reason for Oda to have gone so far out of his way to have brought Prospero into the mix, by himself, except to check off a box because he won't be able to do it later. Otherwise, if he could only bring in one threat to make the situation instantly worse and scary, then why not Katakuri? (Similar to when he dropped Kuma into Thriller Bark) If he's was only trying to move along lingering story beats, why not Pudding, who has a carpet that could have flown her there without a weird subplot tied to Marco.?

And what narrative reason was there to kill Pedro in the first place? That’s the question we keep asking and still have no answer for.

There's lots of promises of "Carrot will someday soon show this particular quality finally"... that Yamato is ALREADY showing and doing.

Carrot WILL appreciate the Dawn.

If what Pedro foretold comes to be, yes, she will.

Carrot WILL want to travel the world.

She already started by jumping onto the Sunny of her own volition. Who’s to say she won’t want to continue?

Carrot WILL ask Luffy to travel with him.

Or Luffy will. Or they’ll ask at the same time. Or no one will, as we’ve acknowledged is possible more than once.

Yamato already checks all those boxes and has already done it.

I keep saying this, I know, but the fact that Yamato was seemingly built as the perfect candidate, was so up front about asking, and yet was introduced so late makes me very apprehensive. The one time it was that easy was with Brook, and that was the joke: someone being asked and accepting so easily. It’s like the idea of a beautiful meat-carrying swordswoman actually joining the crew; it’s way too on the nose.

Also, whatever Yamato's power/transformation is, it's not going to be condition locked to once a month in a power up Oda has already decided is kind of plain and not worth a whole lot of spectacle anymore, he off paneled most of the mink fights against Jack!

Maybe because he didn’t want to detract from when Dog and Cat did it? And Carrot and Wanda are gearing up for a fight as Sulongs right now, so I don’t know what you mean by not worth a lot of spectacle. Anyway, Carrot has shown she’s pretty strong without it, strong enough to fend off regular enemies and free herself (and nearly kill Luffy, har har). The Sulong is a trump card, but it doesn’t have to be all she’s good for.

Yamato is already doing teamwork and tag teaming with the crew and being trusted by them and handling one of the most important missions they have right now, protecting Momo. Carrot... got sidelined off panel for an entire year and is now being paired with another mink to finish mink business and that's it.

The fights in One Piece usually reveal some insight about the characters and/or their opponents. To think nothing will change through the fight with Peros makes no sense to me. If that were the case, They could have just beaten Peros with that one attack. Carrot and Wanda could have come out of Sulong worn out and be done. But the fight’s not over, and with it will come some explanation about what Pedro’s death was all for.

[Robby]

And what narrative reason was there to kill Pedro in the first place? That’s the question we keep asking and still have no answer for.

Why did Pekoms, Pound, King Baum, Jinbe, the fishmen, and all of Sanji's family have to die in that arc? Why did Sanji and Pudding have a sad ending? To dramatically raise the stakes and show this is serious business.

Except most of those players have been showed to be fine now once the drama didn't need them dead anymore.

Maybe because he didn’t want to detract from when Dog and Cat did it?

Who then had their fights (and all the other minks) against Jack completely off camera, and have gotten exactly one attack on Kaidou, and are now falling?

And Carrot and Wanda are gearing up for a fight as Sulongs right now, so I don’t know what you mean by not worth a lot of spectacle.

With zero dramatic buildup or weight to it or even time to show the transformations happening this time around. They're just in the forms now already in the middle of the fight.

[Shift]

Why did Pekoms, Pound, King Baum, Jinbe, the fishmen, and all of Sanji's family have to die in that arc? Why did Sanji and Pudding have a sad ending? To dramatically raise the stakes and show this is serious business.

Except most of those players have been showed to be fine now once the drama didn't need them dead anymore.

Pedro. Is. Dead. You do acknowledge that, right? I honestly can't tell from reading this. Body or not, his fate has been unambiguously clarified multiple times now. There's nothing left to be said about that.

And with that being the case, you can't seriously compare him to those close calls Oda likes to pull. That finality puts Pedro on the level of Ace, WB and Tonoyasu, whose deaths were meant to greatly change the course of the story. The question is, what has changed with his?

Who then had their fights (and all the other minks) against Jack completely off camera, and have gotten exactly one attack on Kaidou, and are now falling?

They had a great showing at the time, IMO. But again, Sulong is still being showcased with Carrot and Wanda. There's no telling what will come of it.

With zero dramatic buildup or weight to it or even time to show the transformations happening this time around. They're just in the forms now already in the middle of the fight.

Like other transformations, power ups, and special moves we've seen? We get how it works, we don't need the whole routine each time, and it worked to take Peros by surprise. None of that confirms Sulong to be less potent.

[Robby]

Pedro. Is. Dead. You do acknowledge that, right?

Any time someone phrases a question as "You know ____ right?" is a real asshole way to ask a question. Please don't do it in the future. I used to lead questions exactly like that too, and I probably still do from time to time, and I try not too now whenever I catch myself doing it because its really poor approach that tries to trap the other person or make them feel stupid.

Same with "well actually" and "To be fair..." Those phrases automatically assumes you know something about the speaking partner, their situation, their opinion, and potentially unstated information and you're leading with that phrasing and implying that they're missing information through either neglect or ignorance.

It's incredibly rude. But you already know that, right?



That aside, We've gone over this many many many times. You know exactly what the answer is, so I don't know why you are asking again.
.

I acknowledge that Oda is treating him as dead more than usual, and for purposes of general discussion accept that his is.

But Oda's done fake outs, including both giant explosions with no body, AND false graves, and had multi-year long waits between revivals before. (A decade in Bellamy and Mr.9's case) Until Pekoms or the eventual cake island cover story show up it can go any which way Oda chooses once it's no longer dramatically important.

If when the minks are all said and done, and he's still dead, that's fine. But if he's secretly alive and well, I will not be surprised in the least.

I will allow that Pedro is dead for the sake of the story, but I will not go along with it as evidence for future developments, especially ones at least thee years and 150+ chapters after the fact. That's a far wider assumption to make and believe in.

Monet ain't dead either but props to Oda for keeping her and Vergo out for so long.

And with that being the case, you can't seriously compare him to those close calls Oda likes to pull. That finality puts Pedro on the level of Ace, WB and Tonoyasu,

Who all died on camera, left their bodies in sight, had main character witnesses see it first hand, left zero doubt, and had the full weight of their given chapter building up to it. (Ditto flashback deaths generally.)

If Oda well and truly intended for Pedro to be permanently dead at the time, he missed the mark and delivered that chapter poorly in a way he didn't with any other death scene, and didn't get around to trying to give it weight until after the fact. He didn't set up and develop bonds beforehand, he didn't give that scene any weight where it helped long term.

Their reactions, including what Jinbe said, were near identical to the fake out death Bon Kurei had.

It wasn't their final escape during that arc, just one of many... and all the later ones ALSO took "sacrifices" to let them get away.

Oda's human, so he's allowed to get it wrong sometimes and not deliver his best, but his track record of making you feel and believe in the moment is stronger in all the other confirmed cases, where whenever he's doing a fake out it just... has less emotional weight to it. Its a hard thing to explain or quantify, but it's there.

If Pedro's death was supposed to be important, and special, maybe he and Carrot should have had chemistry and back history earlier, not just one panel added after the fact. Maybe Pekoms, Pound, Baum, the fishmen, Jinbe, and Sanji's family should not have all then sacrificed themselves following that, or maybe it should have just been the last, or even only sacrifice that arc...

It feels empty and hollow because Oda did the exact same thing SIX MORE TIMES within 20 or so chapters during the same escape so there's no weight to it. He even had a fake death of the Sunny in there. That's why its unbelievable and holds no weight.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

That's what honestly we've been saying for a long time. What could she have done that no other character that was present or in her situation could do? Why did Oda have this random character for so long if she was meant to be irrelevant? If a lot of the earlier reasons that people had claimed in regards to her character were true, why couldn't it have been done with literally any other Mink present?

Her role in the narrative is uncertain and that's what makes it weird in regards to her. She is so independent from the plot you begin to question what Oda's goal was to even have her. He doesn’t do things for no reason and why Chapter 877 is what we cling to is, like I said before, was the only real insight to what her purpose in WCI was to do and what she will do once she finds out has always been unclear and uncertain.

So your point is that Carrot's irrelevancy and lack of redeeming qualities are proof Oda is planning to make her relevant as a twist?

That's... an opinion.