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Thread: American Politics: We're in for it now

  1. #5581

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Obama was the best US president in my lifetime definitely from what i know, considering Clinton, Bush and Trump, but he was still pretty bad but then again, who was good in the last century...
    Like Robby said, even FDR has blights on his record, from refusing to propose anti-lynching legislation for political reasons, or Japanese concentration camps for example.
    It really depends on from what benchmark you judge them.
    From a humanitarian or populist standpoint? They all suck and are bad, by varying degrees. Unfortunately, Trump has shifted the benchmark so far that they look pretty good now...

  2. #5582
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    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Obama was a stable, adult president. Considering who came before and after I'd say that's an accomplishment in and of itself. Was he a bad president? No. Was he a great president? No. He has some highlights, but ultimately I think he'll be remembered as a president, rather than one of the all time bests. I also think it's fair to point out he might have been able to do much more without the republican senate tying his shoelaces together every chance they got. Something Biden is going to be hindered by as well.
    Gonna give ya the D.!

  3. #5583

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    So would Obama be among those presidents in the future?


  4. #5584

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Quote Originally Posted by KageKageKing View Post
    So would Obama be among those presidents in the future?

    Obamaīs legacy is already "First Black President", itīs as memorable as it gets i guess.

  5. #5585

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    While the argument is that Obama was not a great president, he was certainly not mediocre. He did a health care reform, rescued the economy from a big crisis, was a leader in developing the Paris Agreement, supported same sex marriage, etc. These are only the most famous feats. Here's a list with 50 things: https://washingtonmonthly.com/magazi...nts-revisited/ And I should remember that he all of of this while the congress was cockblocking him for 6 years.

    Besides all that, Obama was a pretty great public figure, which I think is important for a President. He was a good influence for people, and many of his speeches (even the normal ones) explained very well the issues and the causes and the whys, which is refreshing.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Experts rank the best U.S. Presidents of all time: https://stacker.com/stories/747/expe...dents-all-time

    Can't say I know enough to argue about the list.
    Last edited by theackwardstation; November 24th, 2020 at 09:15 AM.

  6. #5586

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    https://twitter.com/JakeSherman/stat...29142524768258

    The media already attacking Biden by claiming he will hide in his basement for 4 years.

    (Trump, who they regularly lauded for being one of the most transparent presidents ever, did 5 interviews outside of right-wing media in his first 9 months in office)

    (And when they did interview him it was, "how succesful has your presidency been?" and never asked him about policy)

  7. #5587

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    THEY BELIEVE IN A LINEAR , plodding, purposeful and standard policy process. Impulsive policymaking and widespread leaks from competing factions in the administration are probably over.
    He says like this is a bad thing.

  8. #5588

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    I don't think this tweet is criticizing Biden... it's the opposite, actually.

  9. #5589

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Normally i would say sarcasm does not translate well on the internet, but the Sherman dude was pretty apparent in his usage...

  10. #5590

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Quote Originally Posted by theackwardstation View Post

    Experts rank the best U.S. Presidents of all time: https://stacker.com/stories/747/expe...dents-all-time
    It's pretty telling that Harrison, who died in 30 days, still ranks better than 5 other guys.
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  11. #5591

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Quote Originally Posted by MiyamotoMusashi View Post
    Normally i would say sarcasm does not translate well on the internet, but the Sherman dude was pretty apparent in his usage...
    Quote Originally Posted by theackwardstation View Post
    I don't think this tweet is criticizing Biden... it's the opposite, actually.
    The same guy who hyped up the Hunter Biden laptop story and called everyone who criticizes him for his regular right-wing water-carrying idiots and amateurs.

  12. #5592

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Pennsylvania certified.
    Complicating things since 2009.

  13. #5593

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiolino View Post
    The same guy who hyped up the Hunter Biden laptop story and called everyone who criticizes him for his regular right-wing water-carrying idiots and amateurs.
    I don't know who he is or what he stands for... but these tweets you posted are clearly descriptive and, if anything, they're praising Biden's "delightfully boring" administration compared to the lack of professionalism from Trump's team.

  14. #5594

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiolino View Post
    The same guy who hyped up the Hunter Biden laptop story and called everyone who criticizes him for his regular right-wing water-carrying idiots and amateurs.
    Canīt say much about that, the story was handled abysmally by the majority of the Media anyway, for various reasons.
    Quick google search showed that the dude simply asked questions about the viability of the story and still was suspended from twitter, beyond that i am clueless in regards to him.
    Having said that, itīs irrelevant to the stuff you posted, dude is expressing how a Biden presidency will be huge contrast to the shitshow of the last 4 years, and the stuff about hiding away is sarcastic since Trump was so readily available all the time to any kind of media, whether itīs right wing propaganda networks or social media.

  15. #5595

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    "Rachel Maddow describes how Donald Trump in his lame duck period has not only abruptly removed the U.S from the decades old Open Skies Treaty that supplies the U.S. and its allies with surveillance data on Russian military activities, but has taken steps to dispose of the program's specialized planes and removed the option of replacing them."


  16. #5596

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Quote Originally Posted by theackwardstation View Post
    Experts rank the best U.S. Presidents of all time: https://stacker.com/stories/747/expe...dents-all-time

    Can't say I know enough to argue about the list.
    This list is focused on the effectiveness of the presidents and how many of their goals they accomplished. That's why assholes like Reagan, Wilson, and Jackson are up relatively high. All racists, but generally pretty focused and powerful presidents.

    If I'm making a list, Andrew Johnson, Trump, Dubya, Hoover, and Buchanan are the bottom five with Reagan and Jackson ranked just a bit above them.

    If you get dunked on in the dream, you get dunked on in real life

  17. #5597

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Quote Originally Posted by theackwardstation View Post
    "Rachel Maddow describes how Donald Trump in his lame duck period has not only abruptly removed the U.S from the decades old Open Skies Treaty that supplies the U.S. and its allies with surveillance data on Russian military activities, but has taken steps to dispose of the program's specialized planes and removed the option of replacing them."

    1) This was declared half a year ago, itīs not abrupt (https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-mov...s&page=1&pos=3)

    2) Any other country in the treaty has its own aircrafts and are eligible to fly their own flights, so they are not defenseless against Russian invasion, talk about hyperbole. Iirc, i read up on it recently, the U.S. is eligible to around 20% of all the open treaty flights over Russian territory, rest is for the other 32 treaty members.

    Man Goebbels would be proud of reporters like this.

    Anyway, the legitimacy of the withdrawal will be apparent once Russia reacts to this. If it stays in the treaty, the U.S., obviously not officially since they are not part of the treaty anymore, will receive the flight data from European allies (France and Germany first and foremost) while not allowing any flights over their own territory.
    Having said that, itīs consistent with Trumpīs promises to make allied states be more responsible military-wise, so turning the protection of the EU into a matter of the EU.
    While publicly expressing regret over this decision, the central EU countries welcome more responsibility since a EU-wide joint army, or at least more responsibility, is a goal.
    So from a US point of view, yep further deteriorates the relationship with the EZ and also US sphere of influence, itīs good for the most influential EU countries, whether the Balkan States will agree, will be seen.

  18. #5598

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post
    Yeah, you're not going to get a lot of traction with that stance.

    Obama wasn't a great amazing all time best president, no. He made mistakes and did bad things, yes. But considering everything he inherited from Bush, and that includes Iraq and Afghanistan and the market crash, he did pretty good. He also stomped three different plague outbreaks that no one remembers because he actually took care of them. He's probably the best one we've had within the lifetime of most of the forum members here, and certainly within the time any of us have been eligible to vote.
    ANd not to make it a race thing, but yes, being a black man, does in an of itself, elevate him some. There is an achievement and healing there and some forward progress for the country, and that's going to be significant. He managed to pass universal healthcare, even if it is a tainted version.
    Although there are some nuggets of truth in what you said...

    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post
    He was clean and scandal free and did so well at fixing the economy Trump was able to coast his first three years off his success before causing a crash worse than Bush's recession and worse than the great depression..
    Obama was absolutely not scandal free (Snowden and the multiple surveillance programs, Anwar Al Awlaki, the insurance mandate, Alaskan oil drilling, the ongoing mess of Iraq and Afghanistan), and in most cases despite having "saved the economy" life got worse for the poor and middle class under his tenure.
    Race relations also got measurably worse, and as much as having a black president is an achievement for black Americans, I don't believe he deserves credit for healing that did not occur.
    I'm not sure how much blame to put on him for the worsening of racial tensions on his watch, though, because for the most part that was the result of abrasive rhetoric from his sycophants in the media and Fox's endless racist gaslighting.

    However, seeing as he's more recently become "that black guy the Democrats send in when black activists get too loud", I'm definitely leaning towards the idea that he could have done a lot more but chose not to.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post
    The one before him was pretty bad too.

    Obama doesn't get a free pass no, and he's not one of the greats, but you have to stretch pretty far to call him "bad". All the presidents, ALL of them, going back to Washington, fucked up somewhere and have massive blights on their record, some in massive ways, but its inarguable that some have done WAY better than others.
    Every single president in our lifetimes has been bad, and as a result America has fallen from the wealthy leader of the free world to a failed state on the verge of being transformed into a fascist dictatorship.
    For me, the revelation that Obama never fully understood the gravity of what Bush did wrong, to the point of openly showing sympathy towards him and disgust towards his more-than-reasonable critics, casts his foreign policy failures in a much harsher light.

    I looked up the page with the relevant quote on Google Books:
    It was my first time in "the Beast," the oversized black limousine used to transport the president. Reinforced to survive a bomb blast, the thing weighs several tons, with plush black leather seas and the presidential seal stitched on a leather panel above the phone and the armrest. Once closed, the doors of the Beast seal out all sound, and as our convoy slow-rolled down Pennsylvania Avenue, while I made small talk with President Bush, I looked out the bulletproof windows at the throngs of people who were still on their way to the Mall or had already taken seats along the parade route. Most appeared to be in a celebratory mood, cheering and waving as the motorcade passed. But turning the corner onto the final leg of the route, we came upon a group of protesters chanting into bullhorns and holding up signs that read INDICT BUSH and WAR CRIMINAL. Whether the president saw them I couldn't say—he was deep into an enthusiastic description of what it was like to clear brush at his ranch in Crawford, Texas, where he'd be heading directly after the ceremony. But I felt quietly angry on his behalf. To protest a man in the final hour of his presidency seemed graceless and unnecessary. More generally, I was troubled by what these last-minute protests said about the divisions that were churning across the country—and the weakening of whatever boundaries of decorum had once regulated politics.
    As someone who supported the anti-war protests, never viewed Bush as the legitimate president and to this day believes that he deserves to spend the rest of his miserable life rotting in a poorly cared for prison cell in Cuba, I can tell you that it feels immeasurably shitty to hear that 2008's greatest symbol of hope and fresh ideas was yet another neoliberal trap and not, as many suspected, a genuine progressive corrupted by the system.

    Quote Originally Posted by KageKageKing View Post
    So would Obama be among those presidents in the future?
    Eh, he's too iconic to end up forgotten like that.

    He's probably going to stay controversial for a very long time and the history books will attempt to paint him was the FDR of the 21st century.
    Last edited by RoboBlue; November 24th, 2020 at 03:14 PM.

  19. #5599

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Robo I change one Obama and you can pick anyone of mine presidents since '88...I grantee you will end loving him.

  20. #5600

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    https://www.rawstory.com/2020/11/geo...ling-election/

    This would be a face turn if not for the fact that Kemp is an unlikable douche who just months earlier was finding ways to appease his idol. Such as reopening the state and causing counties in his state to see an uptick in positive cases.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiq View Post
    I've often wondered about that myself; seems like being supported by people who only want you there so the world can end in fire (with you going to Hell in the process) would be somewhat off-putting
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