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Thread: American Politics: We're in for it now

  1. #4001

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    A little ray of hope in these trying times:

    Coups are actually not that hard to stop by the people. Was quite surprised to learn this actually. "Coup attempts have happened all over the world, and over half have failed". Civil Resistance Against Coups: A Comparative and Historical Perspective


    10 Things You Need to Know to Stop a Coup

    The military doesn't even like Trump, so beating a non-military coup is even easier. Mass protest and civil disobedience can be enough. Should it actually come to this, my biggest fear is that affluent centrist democrats and never Trump conservatives won't rise up and just accept business as usual. Also, people not wanting to protest and gather in fear of corona.
    Last edited by DoctorPhil; September 24th, 2020 at 03:12 AM.

  2. #4002

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Wonder where the theoretical tipping point would be, when law enforcement would tire of fighting the people. At this point they still seem to work on the belief that the majority backs them and they are doing just fine, but lets assume this just keeps growing, at some point you'd have to review your position no? If nothing else for that i don't want to be on the bad side when everything flips skin saving

  3. #4003

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    I imagine it would be similar to certain Trump followers who can't stop supporting him and who can't allow themselves to recognize that he has always been a garbage human being because that would mean that they had spent years supporting an asshole. All that good cult-stuff.

    At some point, people have to review their positions but that means acknowledging that what you have been fighting for and the people you have been fighting alongside has and have been bullshit. The predominant word here is fighting.
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  4. #4004

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfwood View Post
    Wonder where the theoretical tipping point would be, when law enforcement would tire of fighting the people. At this point they still seem to work on the belief that the majority backs them and they are doing just fine, but lets assume this just keeps growing, at some point you'd have to review your position no? If nothing else for that i don't want to be on the bad side when everything flips skin saving
    You're mistaken in believing that they think the majority backs them.
    A disturbingly large number of cops believe the masses are violently opposed to them, and could kill them at any moment.

    They're generally trained to view the public as a potentially armed enemy at all times, and have been since 9/11.
    Last edited by RoboBlue; September 24th, 2020 at 04:55 AM.

  5. #4005
    Discovered Stowaway Kirbycide's Avatar
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    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Yeah, see, the thing that worries me most is not that the military might get involved. But that law enforcement certainly will.

    The US has been militarizing its cops since a long time ago, both in armaments and training. I definitely worry that something awful could happen whenever there's a protest in my area, and not because of the "rioters and looters", if you know what I mean.

  6. #4006
    Discovered Stowaway The D.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Quote Originally Posted by Kirbycide View Post
    Yeah, see, the thing that worries me most is not that the military might get involved. But that law enforcement certainly will.

    The US has been militarizing its cops since a long time ago, both in armaments and training. I definitely worry that something awful could happen whenever there's a protest in my area, and not because of the "rioters and looters", if you know what I mean.
    Even so, the police are like children compared to the actual military. I know who I'd rather have on my side if it comes down to that. Murdering unarmed, sleeping and otherwise defensless civilians is a little different to fighting armed, experienced, and organized military personnel.
    Gonna give ya the D.!

  7. #4007
    Discovered Stowaway Kirbycide's Avatar
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    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    I think that the chances of the military getting fully involved on either side are pretty slim, unless the country is to descend into all out civil war.

    That's not to say that the military hasn't already been deployed, though. See the recent DC protests when Trump was trying to get a photo opportunity at a nearby church.

    The police may not be the force to be reckoned with, compared to the actual military, but they are the force that is far more utilized... and more likely to support Trump. That's my point.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Yeah, but you're wrong there, DoctorPhil. Cops have already been doing that across the country this year, both with rubber bullets and live ammunition. They've been driving into and over protesters, beating them with batons, using chemical weapons and water canons.

    But I don't see the "most centrist of centrists" really giving a damn.

    edit: What happened to your post?

    edit edit: Oh. There it is.

  8. #4008

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Far right law enforcement is massively outnumbered by the people though, if enough take to the streets. For every far right cop there are a thousand americans who actually care about democracy, if not more. If cops actually dare to fire at massive waves of peaceful protesters (well, the white ones at least), not looting or rioting, but literally just walking towards DC, even the most centrist of centrists will turn against them. Public opinion will further turn against them and the protest would only grow larger.

    Maybe I'm naive, but I believe most cops are good moral people, but the extremist ones still make up a large minority and are just incredibly vocal and violent.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Originally Posted by The D.
    Even so, the police are like children compared to the actual military. I know who I'd rather have on my side if it comes down to that. Murdering unarmed, sleeping and otherwise defensless civilians is a little different to fighting armed, experienced, and organized military personnel.



    It's doubtful that the military would be involved. It would lead to quick escalation and great loss of life. The military will want to prevent that. Maybe if the far right cop gangs get extremely violent they will have to step in, but I doubt it will get that far.

  9. #4009
    Discovered Stowaway Kirbycide's Avatar
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    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    I tend to agree that the majority of law enforcers are "good" people, too. But in this particular group, a few bad apples really can spoil the whole bunch.

  10. #4010

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    No disagreement there.

  11. #4011

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    The problem is, thanks to police unions and the way the rules work, the "Good" cops either vocally back the shitty ones or go silent on these issues (which is a more low-key way of backing them) and the few who actually do the right thing tend to be fired for it.

    That's why a lot of people say "All Cops are Bastards" or "ACAB".

    It's not that literally every cop is a horrible person, but that the system basically makes it so they have to be shitty or silent to keep their jobs.

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  12. #4012

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Quote Originally Posted by Kirbycide View Post
    Cops have already been doing that across the country this year, both with rubber bullets and live ammunition. They've been driving into and over protesters, beating them with batons, using chemical weapons and water canons.

    But I don't see the "most centrist of centrists" really giving a damn.
    I just wanna grill/eat foie gras for god's sake!
    Behold the centrist. They have no stake in the current BLM protests, they probably see it mostly as a bunch of blacks and anarchists rioting and looting. The democrat ones support some police reform, but honestly black lives probably don't matter to them as much as white lives, subconsciously. They mostly just want the protesting to stop I reckon. If a middle aged white mom is attacked by cops though, hoo boy that's a whole different story. If leftists, liberals and even moderate conservatives who care about democracy start protesting, it will dwarf the current protests. That's way more people for cops to crack down on. And the centrists would feel connected to such a protest for democracy by mostly white people far more. If cops start shooting at mostly liberal white protesters standing up for democracy its entirely different optics.
    Last edited by DoctorPhil; September 24th, 2020 at 08:36 AM.

  13. #4013

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Quote Originally Posted by RoboBlue View Post
    You're mistaken in believing that they think the majority backs them.
    A disturbingly large number of cops believe the masses are violently opposed to them, and could kill them at any moment.

    They're generally trained to view the public as a potentially armed enemy at all times, and have been since 9/11.
    Huh. I would've guesses that their world image and internal justification would be that the "silent majority" of good godfearing citizens wants and needs them to uphold law and order against these "small" groups. But if the police is as wary of the NRA as they are of BLM then i was way off

  14. #4014

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Someone is gonna write some very mean tweets today:
    https://twitter.com/Kevinliptakcnn/s...589865984?s=20

  15. #4015

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    There isnít a single story about Trumpís refusal to commit to a peaceful transfer of power on the front page of any of the nationís four largest newspapers:

    NYT: Tease to A15
    WSJ: Tease to A4
    WaPo: Tease to A4
    USA Today: No mention at all
    https://mobile.twitter.com/djlavoie/...02422732795905

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  16. #4016

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiolino View Post
    https://mobile.twitter.com/djlavoie/...02422732795905

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  17. #4017
    21st Century Schizoid Man Johnny B. Decent's Avatar
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    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Are we really so sure the Military wouldn't take Trump's side? I've seen quite a few espouse that same "love it or leave it, filthy liberal" BS that cops share.

  18. #4018
    Crazy Woodwind Lady Envy's Avatar
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    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Quote Originally Posted by Demon Rin View Post
    I genuinely need to get out of this country before our newly Uber-Conservative SCOTUS overturns Lawrence v. Texas and I'm thrown into a fucking camp.
    Do you think it could get that bad?

    I'm more focused on the LGBT rights that aren't guaranteed already, and now will likely not be within my lifetime: Health care, housing, etc. My idea is to flee to a blue state, where protections are already in place and/or have hope of going through in the future.

    I burst out in tears that evening to my parents saying "They're going to take my rights". My parents tried to console me with "No they won't." I don't think my parents understand what we're dealing with.


  19. #4019

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    Quote Originally Posted by Envy View Post
    Do you think it could get that bad?
    Here's the order of events:

    - Trump and the GOP force through their Supreme Court Pick
    - Trump is re-elected
    - State Level GOP bans abortion.
    - It is naturally challenged in court, and goes up to SCOTUS
    - Newly Uber-Conservative SCOTUS rules in favor of the Abortion Ban, officially overturning Roe v. Wade
    - GOP in Congress puts forth a nationwide Abortion Ban bill and pushes it through
    - Now that they know this works, they do this process again but first a state bans Marriage Equality
    - Same process leads it to SCOTUS which strikes down Obgerfell v. Hayes, leading to the same Nationwide ban.
    - It will be lower on the priority, they'll wait until their power is consolidated but eventually they will pull the same process on Lawrence v. Texas and have it overturned.
    - With Lawrence v. Texas gone, Senate will pass a law making being openly LGBT Punishable by jail time.
    - Trump will sign an executive order to have us rounded up.

    The only thing that gives us some time is that Roe v. Wade will definitely be a top priority, so it'll take time for them to get to us, but it will eventually happen.

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  20. #4020

    Default Re: American Politics: We're in for it now

    The GOP won't be able to push through anything in the House for the time being since Republicans are extremely, extremely unlikely to take it back in 2020 and probably won't in 2022 if Trump is still in office.

    If you get dunked on in the dream, you get dunked on in real life

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