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Thread: Chapter 966: Roger and Whitebeard

  1. #21
    Kick-Ass Finalis desa's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 966: Roger and Whitebeard

    Quote Originally Posted by EvoWarrior5 View Post
    Myea sure, but it's like, I've been wondering about this for years. Once we found out that most of the islands on the Grand Line have their own civilisations, it was like.. wouldnt there also be a civilisation one or 2 islands before the end? And couldnt they just sail the one stretch to get to the end? Especially now that we know how close Elbaf is to the end, and they're pretty prone to setting sail and they're strong. When we found out about the Road Poneglyphs and how there's a few copies floating around, everything made sense again. Some people *had* gotten to the "end", just not to the very final island. But now that Roger said that he was the first to Lodestar, again the question is, literally nobody else did that? Sure maybe nobody had really bothered to travel there from all over the world, having to traverse the entire Grand Line (since before the Great Pirate Era there definitely weren't as many people trying to do anything like that), but still.. nobody, not even the people living close, could go to Lodestar? Where there's no trick to getting there besides traveling 1-2 islands over the Grand Line (which sure, is difficult, but we've seen sooo many people doing it now that we know that's not the thing that's blocking people from reaching it). Now that we have the Yonko system it makes sense that other people can't get through and the Yonko themselves are deadlocking each other. But before that? At no point, ever?

    You see what I mean? I understand all the factors at play and that depending on when you look, not many were willing or able to do it. But never? Not even those who already lived close?
    I understand your problem. I did pause for a moment and in another day I might also have thought it was too silly. I think the giants would be my biggest problem with it since 100 years ago is not that long ago for their society and they like to explore. I guess you could always say it's like america where people discovered and lived in it long before Columbus but because there was a giant gap until the european got there they got credit.

    I think the last island is like walking through the sahara to climb the kilimanjaro. Just a overtly difficult and painful task where the only reward is knowing you did it. And merchants and sea men were not into that kind of stuff unlike someone like Roger. AANd tI doubt there's society that close to it.



  2. #22

    Default Re: Chapter 966: Roger and Whitebeard

    Quote Originally Posted by desa View Post
    I guess you could always say it's like america where people discovered and lived in it long before Columbus but because there was a giant gap until the european got there they got credit.
    I could buy this, but if this was the case, I really have to wonder why Oda didn't have Roger say "we were the first to reach it *to anyone's knowledge*" to make it clear to us that it may have been done, just not publicly so.

    I think the last island is like walking through the sahara to climb the kilimanjaro. Just a overtly difficult and painful task where the only reward is knowing you did it. And merchants and sea men were not into that kind of stuff unlike someone like Roger. AANd tI doubt there's society that close to it.
    It's an easy and very plausible assumption, but Roger gave no indication that the last stretch was particularly hard. It's just kind of an assumption we have to make until further notice to have things be fully consistent.

  3. #23

    Default Re: Chapter 966: Roger and Whitebeard

    Quote Originally Posted by Nilitch View Post
    I mean, I'm somewhat a tiny bit doubtful as well. But yeah, I'm almost sure that it's simply " I'll be Pirate King" and that Oda will never reveal anything more. But anyway, it's not like I couldn't be wrong
    I was sure it would be something like the line: "be the person with the most freedom in the world" that Luffy said to Enel, or his own view of what it is to be pirate king. It all depends if being king of pirates was considered childish before Roger made it happen, because that was how Whitebeard reacted to the words

  4. #24
    Your long-lost brother Jabra's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 966: Roger and Whitebeard

    I wonder which translation of Oden's thoughts about Roger vs. Whitebeard is more accurate, because even switching two words has a drastic impact here

    Viz:
    White-kichi was a great man, but Roger too was off the charts! I am a lucky fellow.

    Fantrans:
    "Whitebeard-chan is a great man, but Roger is incomparable! Lucky me!"
    One version makes it look like Oden considers them equals without putting one over the other, effectively just being grateful about the opportunities coming his way.

    While the other translation is basically this

    Spoiler:


  5. #25
    Ou l‘optimisme Candide's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 966: Roger and Whitebeard

    Maybe "Lodestar" itself isn't that old that people had a chance to get there? What if God Valley was relocated and renamed after the Rocks-Incident for whatever reasons and Roger found it first thereafter? We know how relocation is possible after Jaya and those Continent-Pullers. Just a wild speculation, but Evo has a point there: why even have two islands where no one has been before, when the story with Laugh Tale in itself is spectacular enough? There must be some plot leading to it...

    As for Luffy/Rogers statement: In Rogers case it could be his wish to become Pirate King (however i don't think he would give himself this epithet and really doubt he ever was comfortable with it). In Luffys case it would not be a reason for the kind of reaction that Sabo and Ace had. Nearly every pirate wanted to become pirate king at this point... what would be so special for a little kind to dream of it? Special enough to cut the scene? It must have been something unheard of and completely insane or childish (just some dumb ideas, but like: after i will have travelled the world, i will visit the stars / after i visit the last island, i'll give a feast and invite the whole world / after i will become the freest man on this planet, i will make everyone else being such a free person / i will have such a grand adventure, even the world itself will tremble). Of course it has to do with One Piece, and since One Piece is tied to being the Pirate King it would make sense if both just stated their wish to become pirate king, but why cut those scenes, if it wouldn't really give us any new information?

  6. #26

    Default Re: Chapter 966: Roger and Whitebeard

    But the sentence "I was Born ti boil"?

  7. #27

    Default Re: Chapter 966: Roger and Whitebeard

    I love how our speculations of "did Roger take Shanks and Buggy - 2 kids!!! - to Raftel???" just changed to "did he take baby Momo and Hiyori there???"


    Oden's words show that even he didn't know about the Void Century and ponegliphs, even though he learned to read them. He went with Roger to follow clues left by his ancestors. So even Wano had no info on the Void Century.

    Also, where was Toki during this whole conversation. Apparently she doesn't know anything that happened 800 years ago.

  8. #28
    Your long-lost brother Jabra's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 966: Roger and Whitebeard

    Quote Originally Posted by ZDTom View Post
    But the sentence "I was Born ti boil"?
    This was my favorite part of the viz version haha.

    Yes Oden, you were born to boil. I can hardly wait!


  9. #29

    Default Re: Chapter 966: Roger and Whitebeard

    What if Gol D Roger is a World Noble? If you check his attack he says "Divine". Maybe that's why he is interested in knowing more about the truth story of the world.

  10. #30
    Kick-Ass Finalis desa's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 966: Roger and Whitebeard

    Quote Originally Posted by Jabra View Post
    I wonder which translation of Oden's thoughts about Roger vs. Whitebeard is more accurate, because even switching two words has a drastic impact here



    One version makes it look like Oden considers them equals without putting one over the other, effectively just being grateful about the opportunities coming his way.

    While the other translation is basically this

    I think Oda's intention was they are both great man but Roger is special but Stephen altered it to make Oden sounds less dickish.



  11. #31

    Default Re: Chapter 966: Roger and Whitebeard

    What a beautiful chapter this was! I'm not usually one to focus on powerlevels or the characters' apparent strength, but this strikes me as a good time to have a think about it, since we've likely just seen what the absolute power ceiling looks like. We've got so much haki it visibly flows off the weapons. There's projected advanced armament several feet away from the end of the blade. The lightning and physical shockwave we've seen before though not on this scale, but the dazzling white light is new - and looks spectacular! I do wonder if this moment will end up being a little less special in the anime because of the ways they've exaggerated things in the past. A shockwave so big it shakes the ocean far off the island? In the anime, King Kong Gun clashing with Doflamingo caused that. A dazzling white light? In the anime, Luffy pushing Kaido's head into the ground just did that, among a number of other bright flashy things. None of these things will be unprecedented in quite the same way there. But that's the anime, and this is a manga discussion thread. Time to get back on topic.

    Bege's cover story is all over the place and I have no idea where it's going to be honest. Is that a member of his crew falling down unconscious in the bottom right of the panel? Who did that if the Navy is coming up from the other direction?

    I'm glad to see a bit of weakness from Oden this week. Obviously he's still an absolute beast in a fight, but he's not really on the level of Roger or Whitebeard when they're fighting seriously. We wouldn't want Oden to be too perfect, after all. (and again, it's good for the long-awaited fight between the big boys to be something only they could achieve.) Oh, and great attention to detail showing all of the Moby Dick's furled sails being blown upside down by the shockwave. Feels like the kind of thing a lesser artist might easily overlook.

    The next spread has two great examples of things I brought up in the ongoing Mangaplus debates over in the thread for that. An up-to-date translation for a series so driven by lore and secrets is a constantly moving target. The first is Blackbeard's strange wakefulness. I think Luffy's talk about people who don't sleep in Drum still holds up to the reveal, but the current interpretation of Ace's words to him before their fight absolutely does not. (even the fan translations I've seen wrote it as being to do with Blackbeard's actual age, not his extra time awake, because how could anyone have known?) The other thing is, of course, Lodestar Island. Great name for a place, given its relevance to the lore, but it means the Road Poneglyphs were obviously intended to be Lode Poneglyphs. Feels so obvious now that we have the context, but I don't think a single person guessed it. At this point I almost expect the Rio Poneglyph to be carved into the shape of a lion and turn out to have been the Leo Poneglyph all along But yes, this kind of thing is why no one wants to commit to a translation rewrite. I said it in the other thread and I'll say it here as well. If a revised translation came out in full 13 months ago, fans would have insisted it had Shilliew instead of Shiryu. Eight months ago, there was no way of knowing Mighty Blade was meant to be a reoccurring term. Four months ago and it still wouldn't have had Laugh Tale. And if it had come out just one week ago, it would still have gotten Blackbeard wrong and we still wouldn't have Lode Poneglyphs. I think internal consistency is a virtue for any release to have, and I'm not going to boycott or tear down a release if its consistent glossary is out of date just because of how impossible it is to be up to date.

    I don't really know what to say about the Blackbeard reveal. He's still a very mysterious figure. We're getting him one piece at a time, but we still don't have enough for a clear picture. What I do think is that between this and Luffy's assertion that if he sleeps he will die, we can make a safe guess that his story will probably end, no matter how chaotic the battles leading up to it, with him quietly closing his eyes and drifting off to sleep for the first time in his life. I think that has the potential to be quite the beautiful death.

    Also on the lore front, it seems we have confirmation that the One Piece is something Roger found on Laugh Tale, not something he hid there. We definitely knew this previously, but I think it was just from interviews and author/editor comments. It's good to have it locked into the actual comic.

    Given that Roger sailed to the end of the Grand Line already, that basically means he's on his New Game + run, doesn't it? No wonder he's so strong, he's been thrown back to the starting area with maxed out stats and gear, and this time he's trying for the good ending!

    You almost feel bad for Whitebeard seeing how hard he took Oden's departure. Poor guy. I hope they got that last chance to meet and exchange stories before Oden died. Gonna be real sad if this is the last time they saw each other.

    The message on the Skypiea Poneglyph is a fun callback and nice to have squared away. There's not exactly any new info in this sequence besides a little hint at the limit of the Voice of All Things, but it just wouldn't have felt complete without showing it. Next chapter, I have no idea what to expect. Vingettes of places on the Grand Line we've seen? The stealing of Big Mom and Kaido's Lode Poneglyphs? (and which one does Roger have already?) Laugh Tale itself? Or will we just cut back to Wano and get to the meat of the nation's tragedy?

    Frankly, every option is a good one. They've all got things I would love to see. This is such a painful time for the Christmas and New Years breaks to come up!

  12. #32
    Kick-Ass Finalis desa's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 966: Roger and Whitebeard

    It was nice to see Oden get bitchslap by Roger.



  13. #33

    Default Re: Chapter 966: Roger and Whitebeard

    Luffy could defeat BB by making him so exhaustzed that he finally falls asleep for eternity, while having the smile od the D. clan on his face.
    UnrevealedVegapunk/Ryokugyu/Loki/Rocks/Im-san/S.Gaban
    IslandElbaf/Raftel/GodValley
    UnresolvedWeevil´s plan/Explaining DFs/Deal with Kuma-Bonney´s past/Joy-Boy/Zunisha´s story/Rocks flashback/Void Century/Rioponeglyph/Uranus/the D.clan
    DFSpider/Wind/Metal/Wood/Acid/Liquid/Time-Stop

  14. #34

    Default Re: Chapter 966: Roger and Whitebeard

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfwood View Post
    And Teach never sleeping is just all kinds of intriguing
    And it's especially interesting since that seems to call back to what was said in Chapter 134:




  15. #35

    Default Re: Chapter 966: Roger and Whitebeard

    Roger could have been the first to reach lodestar but that was like twenty over years ago. More ppl have probably reached or known about it, especially Kaido and big mom. We know that both kaidou and big mom are also interested in becoming the pirate King and finding one piece but they don't seem bothered about following the log pose and are both sitting on one road poneglyph each, which means they also know about the "path that is beyond lodestar" as what dog told nami

  16. #36

    Default Re: Chapter 966: Roger and Whitebeard

    Quote Originally Posted by desa View Post
    I understand your problem. I did pause for a moment and in another day I might also have thought it was too silly. I think the giants would be my biggest problem with it since 100 years ago is not that long ago for their society and they like to explore. I guess you could always say it's like america where people discovered and lived in it long before Columbus but because there was a giant gap until the european got there they got credit.

    I think the last island is like walking through the sahara to climb the kilimanjaro. Just a overtly difficult and painful task where the only reward is knowing you did it. And merchants and sea men were not into that kind of stuff unlike someone like Roger. AANd tI doubt there's society that close to it.
    Nobody discovered america, humans have always lived there

  17. #37

    Default Re: Chapter 966: Roger and Whitebeard

    Well, there could possibly be ponegliphs or ancient civilization stuff in Lodestar and Laugh Tale. So Roger would be the first from this era to get there

  18. #38

    Default Re: Chapter 966: Roger and Whitebeard

    Quote Originally Posted by Chams View Post
    Well, there could possibly be ponegliphs or ancient civilization stuff in Lodestar and Laugh Tale. So Roger would be the first from this era to get there
    Interesting to see that the public at large used to think that Lodestar was the final island, and it took for Roger to come along to confirm that Laugh Tale/Raftel was indeed the final island.

  19. #39
    Kick-Ass Finalis desa's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 966: Roger and Whitebeard

    Quote Originally Posted by Luca View Post
    Nobody discovered america, humans have always lived there
    I was more thinking of vikings and other europeans. Not trying to start a debate on history.



  20. #40

    Default Re: Chapter 966: Roger and Whitebeard

    Quote Originally Posted by desa View Post
    That Gaban fella got a lot of focus on this one.
    And not counting Chapter 0, I think this is the first time he has had dialogue in the main manga, because he didn't speak in Buggy's flashback in Chapter 19:


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