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Thread: Chapter 955: ENMA

  1. #61
    Discovered Stowaway Riddler's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 955: ENMA

    People criticising Sanji's lack of fights in WCI arc and complaining he was only baking a cake don't get what Oda was trying to do at all. The reason Sanji didn't get a major fight was because Oda felt that there was no reason to prove Sanji's worth strengthwise...sure, his family thinks he is a weakling and thus worthless, but who cares about their opinion? They are scum. If Oda had given us a huge Sanji fight where he beat up a super strong foe, impressing his father and brothers, it would have just validated their opinion that you can only have worth as a person when you are really strong.

    This is something that Oda constantly fights against. In Enies Lobby, he could have simply given Usopp a fight against someone from CP9 to deal with his insecurity problems, but instead he made him lose his fight and then focused on his sharpshooting skills instead of his fighting skills because that is what he brings to the table, his unique role in the crew. It's the same with Sanji: he is a cook first,a fighter second. It may have been anticlimactic for fight junkies but imo completely right to focus on his supreme skills as a cook instead of giving his role as a fighter much focus. Because that is what his character is ultimately all about. He may act like a dick oftentimes, but he is ultimately a kind person a heart who likes helping others in need - his role as a cook emphasizes his character perfectly. He even helps his enemies, even if it'll be a disadvantage to him later on, when they are in desperate need of food. Big Mom starving was in a way a replay of Sanji feeding Don Krieg back in the Baratie arc when he was starving, too - it may be foolish to save someone who'll be trying to kill you afterwards, just like it's foolish to save the family that hates you and treats you horribly, but it is who Sanji is as a person and Oda clearly understands his character completely.

    People may not like Sanji's character, but I think it's ridiculous to claim that Oda doesn't either and wants to sideline him, especially after just having an arc focusing on his character, including a second flashback to his childhood. You may not like the execution, fine, but you can't handwave the fact that Oda really gave Sanji major, major focus just last arc when he really didn't have to at all.

    Also, forget to mention, but since I've just reread the arc recently: I get why some might feel the cake was handled anticlimactically, but reading the whole arc in volume format, it comes much better across how Sanji first saves his crew and then the whole country just with his baking skills.
    Last edited by Riddler; September 14th, 2019 at 03:47 AM.

  2. #62
    Don't know what to say... Monquito's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 955: ENMA

    Interesting that it was mentioned that Hiyori is located in the graveyards to the north.
    If only Wano wasn't a huge graveyard itself... Kidding, the suspect list gets even smaller now.

  3. #63
    Stowaway w/ 18k posts Kishido's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 955: ENMA

    Still can't wait to see Sanji's redesign of the raid suit.

  4. #64
    Don't know what to say... Monquito's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 955: ENMA

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfwood View Post
    Well i can absolutely put those kinds of words in my own mouth.

    AP has a tendancy to put a negative spin on anything Sunkist does.

    And that is most likely to have more to to with their perception than with author intent.
    It kinda bothers me that despite Sanji ever barely showing a desire to become stronger while Zoro is actively doing so, there cannot be a clear line drawn perfectly showing off that Zoro is currently 50,000 dorukis while Mr Prince cannot be higher than 5,000 for being a full time slacker.

  5. #65
    Stowaway w/ 18k posts Kishido's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 955: ENMA

    BTW who is the ninja here in the upper right panel

    https://mangaplus.shueisha.co.jp/viewer/1003793

  6. #66

    Default Re: Chapter 955: ENMA

    As i was informed in the spoiler thread him baking the cake wasn't enough to amount to a moment, it was just a thing he did. Through the lens of AP it wasn't a chance to display his supreme skill as a chef and apply his value system that people who need to be feed will be feed, it was just background noise. To not consider that to be a bias toward fighting over characterization feels disingenuous

  7. #67

    Default Re: Chapter 955: ENMA

    Quote Originally Posted by Kishido View Post
    BTW who is the ninja here in the upper right panel

    https://mangaplus.shueisha.co.jp/viewer/1003793
    Ushimitsu Kozu probably

  8. #68

    Default Re: Chapter 955: ENMA

    Quote Originally Posted by Riddler View Post
    People criticising Sanji's lack of fights in WCI arc and complaining he was only baking a cake don't get what Oda was trying to do at all. The reason Sanji didn't get a major fight was because Oda felt that there was no reason to prove Sanji's worth strengthwise...sure, his family thinks he is a weakling and thus worthless, but who cares about their opinion? They are scum. If Oda had given us a huge Sanji fight where he beat up a super strong foe, impressing his father and brothers, it would have just validated their opinion that you can only have worth as a person when you are really strong.

    This is something that Oda constantly fights against. In Enies Lobby, he could have simply given Usopp a fight against someone from CP9 to deal with his insecurity problems, but instead he made him lose his fight and then focused on his sharpshooting skills instead of his fighting skills because that is what he brings to the table, his unique role in the crew. It's the same with Sanji: he is a cook first,a fighter second. It may have been anticlimactic for fight junkies but imo completely right to focus on his supreme skills as a cook instead of giving his role as a fighter much focus. Because that is what his character is ultimately all about. He may act like a dick oftentimes, but he is ultimately a kind person a heart who likes helping others in need - his role as a cook emphasizes his character perfectly. He even helps his enemies, even if it'll be a disadvantage to him later on, when they are in desperate need of food. Big Mom starving was in a way a replay of Sanji feeding Don Krieg back in the Baratie arc when he was starving, too - it may be foolish to save someone who'll be trying to kill you afterwards, just like it's foolish to save the family that hates you and treats you horribly, but it is who Sanji is as a person and Oda clearly understands his character completely.

    People may not like Sanji's character, but I think it's ridiculous to claim that Oda doesn't either and wants to sideline him, especially after just having an arc focusing on his character, including a second flashback to his childhood. You may not like the execution, fine, but you can't handwave the fact that Oda really gave Sanji major, major focus just last arc when he really didn't have to at all.

    Also, forget to mention, but since I've just reread the arc recently: I get why some might feel the cake was handled anticlimactically, but reading the whole arc in volume format, it comes much better across how Sanji first saves his crew and then the whole country just with his baking skills.
    Yep, this is what I was trying to get at. That moment at the end of WCI when Judge goes on a big rant about Sanji and Luffy straight up ignores him makes Oda's intention crystal clear, if it wasn't obvious already. Subtlety has never been his forte and yet people keep missing the point.

  9. #69
    Saemon Havarian Razh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 955: ENMA

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfwood View Post
    As i was informed in the spoiler thread him baking the cake wasn't enough to amount to a moment, it was just a thing he did. Through the lens of AP it wasn't a chance to display his supreme skill as a chef and apply his value system that people who need to be feed will be feed, it was just background noise. To not consider that to be a bias toward fighting over characterization feels disingenuous
    The dude elaborated it wasn't so memorable to him. Talk about taking things out of context. He referred to your list of things Sanji did as things he has done, not all of them memorable.

    Especially when you count his win against Page One as memorable *moment*.
    Quote Originally Posted by Outerspec View Post
    Trying to understand Bleach is like trying to drink a bottle of bleach.

    It makes no sense and you'll be dead before you're finished.

  10. #70

    Default Re: Chapter 955: ENMA

    So many people desperately trying to spin Sanji's awful portrayal since timeskip as something positive. Oda could write an entire chapter of Sanji getting beat and humiliated and people here will praise it as a good thing "Sanji getting demolished and made fun of for 18 pages is actually just Oda's way of uhh showing how much he likes him!"

  11. #71
    Saemon Havarian Razh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 955: ENMA

    Quote Originally Posted by Sengokusgoat View Post
    Yep, this is what I was trying to get at. That moment at the end of WCI when Judge goes on a big rant about Sanji and Luffy straight up ignores him makes Oda's intention crystal clear, if it wasn't obvious already. Subtlety has never been his forte and yet people keep missing the point.
    And then Sanji dons the suit anyway, less than 40 chapters after that.

    The way things were written up to that point, that canister should have been flicked to the bottom of the sea. The only way it would make sense for Sanji to keep it is if he knew it was a legacy from his mother, who was sorely missing from the flashback. I can only hope Oda stitches it together in some future Sanji-Vinsmokes development/flashback.
    Quote Originally Posted by Outerspec View Post
    Trying to understand Bleach is like trying to drink a bottle of bleach.

    It makes no sense and you'll be dead before you're finished.

  12. #72

    Default Re: Chapter 955: ENMA

    Quote Originally Posted by Razh View Post
    Especially when you count his win against Page One as memorable *moment*.
    Was that even a victory? As I remember correctly we just switched to another scene mid-fight and then the encounter was never mentioned again afterwards.
    Kinda like the Sanji-Drake clash.

  13. #73

    Default Re: Chapter 955: ENMA

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfwood View Post
    Well i can absolutely put those kinds of words in my own mouth.

    AP has a tendancy to put a negative spin on anything Sunkist does.

    And that is most likely to have more to to with their perception than with author intent.
    Maybe Oda has not such intention but he has still a part of responsability in the way he write his characters and it is clear he gives some of the Strawhat a huge favorite treatment.

  14. #74

    Default Re: Chapter 955: ENMA

    Quote Originally Posted by Razh View Post
    The dude elaborated it wasn't so memorable to him. Talk about taking things out of context. He referred to your list of things Sanji did as things he has done, not all of them memorable.
    None of those moments are memorable was the exact wording i believe. Which includes the cake, which objectively was a big moment for him with tons of emphasis put on it. How am i twisting his intent here? He puts it in plain text that he doesn't think Sanji's biggest moment in the arc qualifies as a moment in his favour.

    Especially when you count his win against Page One as memorable *moment*.
    Putting on a new battle suit, displaying it's abilities and then annihilating a foe doesn't qualify as a moment to you? I'm honestly baffled by your harping on that point. The chapter discussion blew up that week on that single battle and the the implications/repercussions/aftermath on the suit, page one, where Sanji goes from there but you won't even acknowledge it as something as simple as a positive moment for Sanji. Is it the wording? Do you and i define a moment differently? Cause i am honestly shocked by how little you think about it.

  15. #75

    Default Re: Chapter 955: ENMA

    A lot of people have explained why for them the cake was not a memorable moment during the chapter discussion back then.
    I think that difference of point of view is exactly the root of current incomprehension

  16. #76
    Saemon Havarian Razh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 955: ENMA

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfwood View Post
    Putting on a new battle suit, displaying it's abilities and then annihilating a foe doesn't qualify as a moment to you? I'm honestly baffled by your harping on that point. The chapter discussion blew up that week on that single battle and the the implications/repercussions/aftermath on the suit, page one, where Sanji goes from there but you won't even acknowledge it as something as simple as a positive moment for Sanji. Is it the wording? Do you and i define a moment differently? Cause i am honestly shocked by how little you think about it.
    It doesn't because;
    a) the peak of battle is not shown on panel and
    b) the conclusion of battle is not shown on panel.

    We can surmise Sanji had a fairly easy win since he doesn't seem to have suffered any wounds (the suit probably helped a lot, judging from Sanji reacting to the hit he received). Nobody said anything about it. Nobody praised Sanji (or Soba Mask) for how amazingly he fought, or how he managed to defeat such a prominent member of Kaido's gang. Maybe it will get referenced later on, but at this point it's just blank page.

    I like to be shown instead of told, and in this particular case it was neither.
    Quote Originally Posted by Outerspec View Post
    Trying to understand Bleach is like trying to drink a bottle of bleach.

    It makes no sense and you'll be dead before you're finished.

  17. #77

    Default Re: Chapter 955: ENMA

    characters and factions I think got a shot of appearing at Wano.


    - Grandfleet
    I think its very possible, but in order for that to happen, I think Luffy needs to get his beaten close to death first, just so the captains will react to the his vivrecard burning and then making a move towards Wano.


    - Marco
    I think its also very possible, but it would probably require for Weevil to arrive at Wano too, then he could leave and heal Luffy that was just beaten.


    - remainder of WBs commanders
    maybe Neko is late because he is looking for some of them?
    Maybe Izo is in Wano or on his way to wano?
    either way, it could be their time for reappearance, since the plotline about them splitting up needs to get resolved, and Wano feels like a good place to do so.


    -Moria
    past beef with kaido, and appeared recently, would think he got highest chance of appearing.


    -Weevil
    his subplot been slowly going forward and teased since we found out wgs got new shichibukais and all the way back before film Z where it was stated a new shichibukai cut off Zs arm in the past, it could be time for him to make an appearance.


    -Lucci and CP0
    Cp0 has already been present at wano, but with Lucci back in the story and Oda reminding us of him at both dressrosa and reverie I think he might appear as well as the face for wgs interests in wano


    -Marines,
    Either Kizaru or Greenbull, or both, who knows.


    -The rest of the Big mom pirates,
    If Big mom is getting wrapped up in this arc, I think we need pudding there to use her memory powers somehow, and maybe we could find out more about her eyepower, Katakuri could also appear but more in the role of a anti villain/anti hero, and then maybe we would finally get to know what happened with Jimbei and the fishmen, the germa 66 and Pekoms, if we dont find out about them sooner.

    This would wrap up the story of all the great big pirates, Big Mom, Kaido, Whitebeard and his commanders and his self proclaimed son, their connection with Rocks, and Odens flashback.
    Maybe theres even a connection with Weevil and Moria if they both appear in the same arc? Thinking about Weevils zombie/frankenstein-like appearance.

  18. #78

    Default Re: Chapter 955: ENMA

    Quote Originally Posted by Sengokusgoat View Post
    Yep, this is what I was trying to get at. That moment at the end of WCI when Judge goes on a big rant about Sanji and Luffy straight up ignores him makes Oda's intention crystal clear, if it wasn't obvious already. Subtlety has never been his forte and yet people keep missing the point.
    Did you get the point we made about the strong bond between the Minks and Wano in the Spoilers topic? Because you didnt reply to that. "Older" people here talk only between theirselves,excluding the "newbie" from the conversation

  19. #79

    Default Re: Chapter 955: ENMA

    The Page-One thing is honestly really weird. It would have been so easy to have Drake say something like ''So you're O-Soba mask, the guy that defeated Page-One.'' but he didn't. It's like Oda is going out of his way to not reference it. What's up with that?

    Quote Originally Posted by NamiRobinFrankyAce View Post
    Did you get the point we made about the strong bond between the Minks and Wano in the Spoilers topic? Because you didnt reply to that. "Older" people here talk only between theirselves,excluding the "newbie" from the conversation
    I did. I didn't reply because...I honestly had nothing to say. It's true, it makes sense for Pedro to have a grave in Wano. Although it's still a little weird they're only giving him one now and next to Yasuie. It's like the minks were all ''Welp, if we're building graves, might as well...''

  20. #80

    Default Re: Chapter 955: ENMA

    Quote Originally Posted by Zhenja View Post
    I didn't see Ussop in this chapter, maybe he's back on the Sunny and is working on Sanji's suit and new weapons or something.
    If so, I hope Sanji is teaching him how to use his observation haki. He awakaned in Dressrossa, and since then, nothing...


    Also, it's weird how we have only 3 haki users in the crew when the SHs are about to fight two entire yonkou crews + Wano's forces

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