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Thread: Chapter 931: Soba Mask

  1. #41
    Saemon Havarian Razh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 931: Soba Mask

    Quote Originally Posted by Watch-man View Post
    I have completely different feel, sorry. I feel that it fits well, with redesign even better.

    Now he can use Okama Kenpo etc. - his talk about letting pride go can be also prelude to him using some Okama techniques.

    Also as I wrote he can make use of suit to amplify power of his current techniques, with Raid Suit heat resistance he can go further with his Diable Jambe.
    Yeah, but he first let his pride about his evil family than some good natured crossdressers who really like him.

    Not sure why does it even have to be Okama Kenpo. Shouldn't be too hard for a fighting genius like Sanji to apply the prinicples he learned to create some new techniques and give them his own names. Oda invented new fighting style to give to some chinese pirates who were first introduced on Dressrosa but it was too hard to think of a couple of moves for one of the main characters?
    Last edited by Razh; February 4th, 2019 at 08:53 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Outerspec View Post
    Trying to understand Bleach is like trying to drink a bottle of bleach.

    It makes no sense and you'll be dead before you're finished.

  2. #42

    Default Re: Chapter 931: Soba Mask

    Quote Originally Posted by Razh View Post
    Yeah, but he first let his pride abouth his evil family than some good natured crossdressers who really like him.

    Not sure why does it even have to be Okama Kenpo. Shouldn't be too hard for a fighting genius like Sanji to apply the prinicples he learned to create some new techniques and give them his own names. Oda invented new fighting style to give to some chinese pirates who were first introduced on Dressrosa but it was too hard to think of a couple of moves for one of the main characters?
    You are right in that originality regard.

    Thing is that Sanji did not had any long drawn out fight and first one that he will have will take place during this arc. Grill Shot was one of attacks I wanted to see used outside of water, on land but I imagine that it is kept for later for very strong enemy that can tank it being left with moderate damage. Sanji felt like slightly holding back.

    As for him letting Suit pass and Okama Kenpo not - he was not pushed very hard. He was overpowered by Doflamingo who immobilized him and had dangerous clash with Vergo that was cut off after one chapter. We will see this arc what he has to offer and if he was holding back with Okama Kenpo because of his pride.


    I like how Page 1 was presumably taken out with finishing move that Sanji used against Luffy during their fight on Whole Cake Island.

    He went very high, had same position and fallen from the sky at insane speed and finished off person he was fighting.

  3. #43

    Default Re: Chapter 931: Soba Mask

    Do we know if Sanji has learn Okama kenpo moves ? I'm not sure it is possible for him

  4. #44

    Default Re: Chapter 931: Soba Mask

    People have been assuming Sanji learned Okama Kenpo for years, but I dunno. The timeskip was EIGHT AND A HALF YEARS AGO. (Geez, I remember when we were discussing if there would even be a timeskip. So long ago.) I don't feel like that particular trick is something Oda would have kept up his sleeve quite this long. Especially when others like Luffy and Usopp and Nami are actively learning and showcasing brand new skills... they passed the "I learned this during the timeskip" showoff phase some time ago.

    It's not impossible, Oda's kept other things under wraps for super long periods, but at this point, I don't feel like Sanji using Okama moves as a big upgrade is going to happen... especially now that he has this new suit upgrade.
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  5. #45
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    Default Re: Chapter 931: Soba Mask

    Quote Originally Posted by Kdom View Post
    Do we know if Sanji has learn Okama kenpo moves ? I'm not sure it is possible for him
    He didn't.

    Iva said he would train Sanji on Newkama Kenpo and would only teach him the recipes once he had mastered it, but Sanji refused because masculinity is a frail thing, so Iva had to come up with an alternate method in which Sanji would just need to steal those recipes from the strongest guys on Kamabakka.

    Of course, Oda can always come up with a reveal and tell us Sanji ended up learning those techniques either way, but since Sanji is already getting a power-up to cover his insufficient growth over the timeskip, I think that ship has sailed.

    Which kinda annoys me because he blatantly refused a chance to get really stronger for personal reasons and then he magically gets a suit to do it for him... it really feels like cheating when other SH needed to put everything in line to get to where they got (and that's the reason why I was never bothered by his depiction post-ts being so inferior compared to Zoro. After Zoro swallowed all his pride and bowed to the man he ought to defeat so he could get stronger for the sake of his friends, I just feel like Sanji never deserved to be depicted on the same level as him anymore after going "no can do. muh pride").


    EDIT: Now that I think about it, I think this is exactly the reason why I don't like how the raid suit thing was handled. Even though I can understand Sanji's reasoning and I do think this chapter made perfect sense, I still hate how Oda chose to approach the whole thing.
    After everything I mentioned before, when it was revealed Sanji had a raid suit I thought "this is it. This is going to be his redemption. He will be forced to chose between his crew and his own pride, set his priorities straight and then be allowed to stand at the same level as Zoro again". But nop. Rather than being forced to chose between one or another, Oda gives Sanji a scene where he can tangent the subject by rationalizing it in a way he can use the suit while not compromising his pride ("just by using this doesn't mean I became a Germa, right!? It's totally right if I do it like this right? I will pissing in their faces even so, right!?")... and that's just sad. I mean, sure, he still had to swallow a bit of his pride to use the suit anyways, he would prefer not to, but it's just that: a very minor concession he made by finding an approach that kept most of his pride safe.

    I never minded him refusing to fight Kalifa even if it meant Robin's death because you could see how disappointed he was at himself, how devastated he was that he couldn't chose his friend's safety over his own moral code. I was sure that would be addressed later and be a pivotal moment in his development. But it never was and I can tell it's never going to be. As far as Oda is concerned, Sanji is always on the right when he makes those choices, it shows how resolute he is, not how selfish he is.
    I think I really gave up on Sanji as a character long ago.
    Last edited by .access timeco.; February 4th, 2019 at 08:21 AM.

  6. #46

    Default Re: Chapter 931: Soba Mask

    Quote Originally Posted by Kdom View Post
    Do we know if Sanji has learn Okama kenpo moves ? I'm not sure it is possible for him

    He used Spectre move that only Ivankov was shown using so we can connect that to Okama Kenpo arts. Likely he knows more but might be too prideful to rely on it a lot(or might have been too prideful).

    Frown he had on his face when he was thinking what would have happened if his fight against Vergo would continue https://www.mangapanda.com/one-piece/682/7 still, after years looks like he was imagining using Okama Kenpo or something like Okamas life return, not thinking about loosing to Vergo. It would be much more into his character.

  7. #47

    Default Re: Chapter 931: Soba Mask

    What i really don't get is why Sanji is addressing Ussop and Franky as Ussohachi and Franosuke in his monologue....
    Last edited by auem; February 4th, 2019 at 07:52 AM.
    “When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always.”


  8. #48

    Default Re: Chapter 931: Soba Mask

    Is newkama kenpo better then what sanji already has? He was beating NK guys like Mr 2 since alabasta, it was never somethign that was show superior.
    Ivankov is like the best NK guy we ever saw and he is based on his fruit power instead.

    If anything, he should learn from guys like Sai that have dragon drill kicks.
    Quote Originally Posted by .access timeco. View Post
    He also defeated a guy who could use Fishman Karate back in East Blue. Now look at Jinbe.


    Yes but NK seem to be more similar to sanjis leg style, unlike fishman karate. And based on their team up on Wadatsumi, it didn't look like oda wanted to show jimbe's superiority over sanji. Sanji even got to finish him instead of jimbe. And jimbe seems to be by far the best fishman karate user we know.
    Last edited by uniaka ikuzakas; February 4th, 2019 at 08:59 AM.

  9. #49
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    Default Re: Chapter 931: Soba Mask

    Quote Originally Posted by uniaka ikuzakas View Post
    Are we even sure newkama kenpo is betetr then what sanji already has? He was beating NK guys like Mr 2 sicne alabasta, it was never somethign that was show superior.
    Ivankov is like the best NK guy we ever saw and he is based on on fruit power.
    He also defeated a guy who could use Fishman Karate back in East Blue. Now look at Jinbe.

  10. #50
    Saemon Havarian Razh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 931: Soba Mask

    Quote Originally Posted by Watch-man View Post
    You are right in that originality regard.

    Thing is that Sanji did not had any long drawn out fight and first one that he will have will take place during this arc. Grill Shot was one of attacks I wanted to see used outside of water, on land but I imagine that it is kept for later for very strong enemy that can tank it being left with moderate damage. Sanji felt like slightly holding back.

    As for him letting Suit pass and Okama Kenpo not - he was not pushed very hard. He was overpowered by Doflamingo who immobilized him and had dangerous clash with Vergo that was cut off after one chapter. We will see this arc what he has to offer and if he was holding back with Okama Kenpo because of his pride.
    That's partly why I'm saying Oda doesn't know how to handle Sanji. Or just isn't interested in it.

    Plus all the stuff people already said.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by uniaka ikuzakas View Post
    Is newkama kenpo better then what sanji already has? He was beating NK guys like Mr 2 since alabasta, it was never somethign that was show superior.
    Ivankov is like the best NK guy we ever saw and he is based on his fruit power instead.

    If anything, he should learn from guys like Sai that have dragon drill kicks.


    Yes but NK seem to be more similar to sanjis leg style, unlike fishman karate. And based on their team up on Wadatsumi, it didn't look like oda wanted to show jimbe's superiority over sanji. Sanji even got to finish him instead of jimbe.
    Kenpo doesn't need to be "better" than what Sanji already had for Sanji to incorporate it into his moveset and do his own thing with it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Outerspec View Post
    Trying to understand Bleach is like trying to drink a bottle of bleach.

    It makes no sense and you'll be dead before you're finished.

  11. #51

    Default Re: Chapter 931: Soba Mask

    Quote Originally Posted by uniaka ikuzakas View Post
    Is newkama kenpo better then what sanji already has? He was beating NK guys like Mr 2 since alabasta, it was never somethign that was show superior.
    Mr.2 was an Okama Kenpo user, not Newkama.

    It's probably has no difference at all. It's just amateu okama kung fu and advanced okama kung fu.

  12. #52
    Saemon Havarian Razh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 931: Soba Mask

    Imagine if Luffy came back from time skip without learning any new gears or if Zoro came back without being able to use those sweet long distance air slashes. That's Sanji, more or less.
    Quote Originally Posted by Outerspec View Post
    Trying to understand Bleach is like trying to drink a bottle of bleach.

    It makes no sense and you'll be dead before you're finished.

  13. #53
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    Default Re: Chapter 931: Soba Mask

    Robin's Haki needs work if she's going to continue doing what she is supposed to be proficient in. Sanji looks like the new stealth master on the crew despite not being an assassin beforehand.

    At first I thought the unconscious figure was Weevil but this twist about Big Mom having amnesia is absolutely delicious. Having her as a patsy to help them fight Kaido directly instead of having it turn into a three-way brawl is a great way to help things resolve. But that means it may be superfluous for Luffy to team up with Moria and become Uber Nightmare Luffy if that's the case.

  14. #54
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    Default Re: Chapter 931: Soba Mask

    Quote Originally Posted by Razh View Post
    Imagine if Luffy came back from time skip without learning any new gears or if Zoro came back without being able to use those sweet long distance air slashes. That's Sanji, more or less.
    Didn't Zoro already knew how to use long distance slashes since Skypiea, though?

    I actually think as far as new things go, Zoro was worse. Sanji keeps throwing kicks with new names and Zoro slashes with new names, and I can't really bother to follow either, but geppo was definitely a "new feature" on Sanji's arsenal while Zoro just seem to have the same things he had before - except much stronger.



    Haki aside.

  15. #55

    Default Re: Chapter 931: Soba Mask

    Me personlly i think alot of ya'll have exaggerated expectations of what observational ambition can resonably be expected to do. I think in time, when the limitations have been expanded upon in the story, that you'll find that it isn't an omniscient radar that detects anything at anytime no matter your focus level. That Robin can't detect stealthy ninjas while digging for clues isn't as much a slam on her skills as it is an exploitation of a logical flaw in the skill itself. That and y'know ninjas, sneaking up on people is what they do.

  16. #56
    Your long-lost brother Jabra's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 931: Soba Mask

    Quote Originally Posted by .access timeco. View Post
    Didn't Zoro already knew how to use long distance slashes since Skypiea, though?

    I actually think as far as new things go, Zoro was worse. Sanji keeps throwing kicks with new names and Zoro slashes with new names, and I can't really bother to follow either, but geppo was definitely a "new feature" on Sanji's arsenal while Zoro just seem to have the same things he had before - except much stronger.



    Haki aside.
    Zoro has a new Tornado slash. Cool attack, but he didn't use it after FI for some reason.

    And of course he has aquired Mihawk's super eyesight through the Mihawkigan

    Spoiler:
    Last edited by Jabra; February 4th, 2019 at 11:20 AM.


  17. #57
    Ou l‘optimisme Candide's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 931: Soba Mask

    Quote Originally Posted by Razh View Post
    That's partly why I'm saying Oda doesn't know how to handle Sanji. Or just isn't interested in it.

    Plus all the stuff people already said.
    I think Oda has something in mind for Sanji. In FI he had the role to connect Fisher Tigers backstory (with his stupid nosebleeding Oda made some comic relief, so the whole situation doesn't get to tense). In and after Dressrosa he was the leader of Swirlyhats and thus had an important role. WCI speaks for itself. Oda just stressed Sanjis importance on non combative aspects. Now he does though, which he does not bad at all IMO.

    You also could say, he doesn't know what to do with Zoro as his opponents were lame as hell and he didn't have any character growth either.

  18. #58
    Saemon Havarian Razh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 931: Soba Mask

    Quote Originally Posted by .access timeco. View Post
    Didn't Zoro already knew how to use long distance slashes since Skypiea, though?

    I actually think as far as new things go, Zoro was worse. Sanji keeps throwing kicks with new names and Zoro slashes with new names, and I can't really bother to follow either, but geppo was definitely a "new feature" on Sanji's arsenal while Zoro just seem to have the same things he had before - except much stronger.



    Haki aside.
    Yes, but the difference in those slashes between then and now is overwhelmingly evident. Didn't use the word long for nothing.

    It's more about the whole presentation than how much new or varied monster trio's arsenal got.

    Luffy was set up to train with a Haki master. So we expected he would get real good with it. Plus we also know he always finds new ways to utilize his devil fruit. After time skip we got both of those.

    Zoro was sent to Mihawk. We know what Mihawk can do with his sword and how he acts in fights and after time skip, we were shown Zoro's new skills, comparable to what Mihawk can pull out.

    Sanji got to hang out with Ivankow, who specifically told us Sanji will get to experience secret techniques and get many times stronger. And that's pretty much it. Sanji used Ivankow's face multiplying tech but on his leg, and learned Geppou on his own.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Candide View Post
    I think Oda has something in mind for Sanji. In FI he had the role to connect Fisher Tigers backstory (with his stupid nosebleeding Oda made some comic relief, so the whole situation doesn't get to tense). In and after Dressrosa he was the leader of Swirlyhats and thus had an important role. WCI speaks for itself. Oda just stressed Sanjis importance on non combative aspects. Now he does though, which he does not bad at all IMO.

    You also could say, he doesn't know what to do with Zoro as his opponents were lame as hell and he didn't have any character growth either.
    But those are all left overs. He hasn't been a real driving force for a while now. He's shown making some moves, but it just doesn't have the weight it did during times like Alabasta, Skypiea or Enies Lobby. Limiting his fighting time certainly doesn't help. And the women thing, ugh. Not talking about not fighting them.

    Zoro is at least a lot less conflicting character. He achieved some character growth when he begged Mihawk to train him. He stepped over his pride by asking his enemy to train him. In contrast, Sanji's view on fighting women remains the same, even after his actions put both Nami and Robin in danger during EL.

    I'm saying all this as a Sanji fan.
    Quote Originally Posted by Outerspec View Post
    Trying to understand Bleach is like trying to drink a bottle of bleach.

    It makes no sense and you'll be dead before you're finished.

  19. #59

    Default Re: Chapter 931: Soba Mask

    I'd like to imagine that Oda is just straight out bewilderd by the fandoms boner for Sunkist to start beating up women. Letters piling up below the mail slot with like graphs and charts. Like flow charts, has Sunkist started kicking women yet? If no start doing so please. And the yes just going to a big good all is well then box.

  20. #60
    Flagon Snaggin' Dragon Kaido King of the Beasts's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 931: Soba Mask

    Quote Originally Posted by Kishido View Post
    How is Stealth back called in Romaji?
    It's typical katakana - Suterusu Burakku



    Spoiler:

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