My Hero Academia II - Bhyyyyyyyyy

[Nekketsu]

Everything is political

No, it's not. Reality is reality, and fiction is fiction. The author isn't attempting to send a message to the masses, and more specifically to the children, he's just telling his story as he conceived it. Meanwhile you're making a poor effort at trying to shove stereotypes and looking for things you deem as offensive, no different than the so called white knights, whose borderline obsession to make everything political backfired in their faces as the "controversial" things they tried so hard to silence only gained more attention even from people who weren't interested in. Proper education, my ass. You're just trying to turn this into a political debate mess and take personal offense at a work of FICTION about super heroes.

I'll stop there. Don't wanna risk getting the thread locked.

[zeltrax225]

To side track a little even though this thread is obviously trying to go the other way,
over analyzing and obsession can be a very subjective thing. You might think others are over analyzing a piece of work or a chapter but this is not so for the person because it could hold significant meaning to them.
Likewise, there's a fine line with, say someone in the story-telling industry or have a certain depth of knowledge about a topic criticizing it (because how verse he/she is on it) vs needlessly being a pain in the ass.

Anyway, the "romanticism"/"make it cool for the sales" of mental health has been an ongoing thing in shounen/more popular manga series. I mean I can only name one which was Tokyo Ghoul and that aspect spiraled into a mess.
Shounen tend to always do that and it can become annoying when you have more mature series who does it insanely well.

For good or bad, being attached to characters in a fictional story means readers have certain expectations and relatability to them.
You can't throw character aspects in to attract certain readers and then backtrack or betray said traits and expect people to be ok with it.

Honestly I'm more of a "it's just fiction, I'll take the good parts and ignore the rest" but I understand why people invest in certain aspects and what it can mean, especially when Hero have a huge influence in current day.

Thanks for giving me 5 seconds and that's all I have to say.

--- Update From New Post Merge ---

No, it's not. Reality is reality, and fiction is fiction. The author isn't attempting to send a message to the masses, and more specifically to the children, he's just telling his story as he conceived it. Meanwhile you're making a poor effort at trying to shove stereotypes and looking for things you deem as offensive, no different than the so called white knights, whose borderline obsession to make everything political backfired in their faces as the "controversial" things they tried so hard to silence only gained more attention even from people who weren't interested in. Proper education, my ass. You're just trying to turn this into a political debate mess and take personal offense at a work of FICTION about super heroes.

I'll stop there. Don't wanna risk getting the thread locked.

I find it hilarious how your reply is both triggering and baiting and then you pass the baton back to Julie by taking the higher ground saying you are the one willing to stop.
Therefore, throwing the responsibility and fault back to her as if she's the one at fault if she stands up for herself.

[Nekketsu]

To side track a little even though this thread is obviously trying to go the other way,
over analyzing and obsession can be a very subjective thing. You might think others are over analyzing a piece of work or a chapter but this is not so for the person because it could hold significant meaning to them.
Likewise, there's a fine line with, say someone in the story-telling industry or have a certain depth of knowledge about a topic criticizing it (because how verse he/she is on it) vs needlessly being a pain in the ass.

Anyway, the "romanticism"/"make it cool for the sales" of mental health has been an ongoing thing in shounen/more popular manga series. I mean I can only name one which was Tokyo Ghoul and that aspect spiraled into a mess.
Shounen tend to always do that and it can become annoying when you have more mature series who does it insanely well.

For good or bad, being attached to characters in a fictional story means readers have certain expectations and relatability to them.
You can't throw character aspects in to attract certain readers and then backtrack or betray said traits and expect people to be ok with it.

Honestly I'm more of a "it's just fiction, I'll take the good parts and ignore the rest" but I understand why people invest in certain aspects and what it can mean, especially when Hero have a huge influence in current day.

Thanks for giving me 5 seconds and that's all I have to say.

--- Update From New Post Merge ---



I find it hilarious how your reply is both triggering and baiting and then you pass the baton back to Julie by taking the higher ground saying you are the one willing to stop.
Therefore, throwing the responsibility and fault back to her as if she's the one at fault if she stands up for herself.

Wouldn't have replied if she, you know, didn't start throwing accusations of transphobia or authoritarianism so nonchalantly. Even when it has nothing to do with me, that was poorly worded.

Anyway, I agree with almost all you have written above.

[pariston_hill]

I'm gonna bite the bullet one last time, but trying to be apolitical as possible.
Nekketsu, text and subtext go hand in hand in a story, but an author only has total control of his text. That doesn't erase the presence of the subtext. I give one exemple of a creator being happy, that a group of people found a subtext in his work, that was not intended but that works in this way: https://thecowardlyescanor.tumblr.co...t-voice-yay855

I'm not familiar with other super hero mangas so I will take my exemples out of the big two.
Although, both in DC and Marvel heroes work alongside law enforcement, they don't work with law enforcement, mainly because being a hero is not a recognized profession.
They are praised when they do the job right and hated or shunned when they do a screw up. If I can recall correctly, there's hardly any hero endorsed merchandise, there's no monetary gain in the profession. Most heroes have jobs (and secret identities), Clark and Peter work/worked on journalism, Jessica Walters is a lawyer, while others are banked by being head of billion dollars industries like Stark, Wayne and Queen.

Although there's young heroes, they are not trained and drilled into the duty, and this has been cause for trouble in two instances in Marvel, in the original civil war and now in the outlawed event. The only one's giving training to young supes are Xavier training mutants to control their power with no obligation to join the X-men (I could add the Massachusetts Academy, but Ms. Frost intent was create her on X-men) and Bruce Wayne and his multiple Robins. And with both cases they were criticized for put youngsters in the line of fire, even when they had their reasons.

The thing is, the more grey morality Hori try to add to his story, the less it looks like the Big Two his a big fan and more like Starship Troopers, where in comparison, you can be a civilian (and avoing using your quirk unlawfully) or serve your ambitions and country and become a hero (a citizen), and those that fail to match the criteria become enemies of the state.

[Nekketsu]

I'm gonna bite the bullet one last time, but trying to be apolitical as possible.
Nekketsu, text and subtext go hand in hand in a story, but an author only has total control of his text. That doesn't erase the presence of the subtext. I give one exemple of a creator being happy, that a group of people found a subtext in his work, that was not intended but that works in this way: https://thecowardlyescanor.tumblr.co...t-voice-yay855

Nice find, Pariston, I didn't know of such thing. That said, is dangerous to do this kind of thing in the long run, because the subtext can have many interpretations depending of the person.

Still, I find the accusations of authoritarism a tad too harsh. Magne joining the LOV didn't equal transphobia either, but who knows if that subject will eventually be touched upon at some point. It's not like this Hero System is flawless anyway.

[JulieYBM]

No, it's not. Reality is reality, and fiction is fiction. The author isn't attempting to send a message to the masses, and more specifically to the children, he's just telling his story as he conceived it. Meanwhile you're making a poor effort at trying to shove stereotypes and looking for things you deem as offensive, no different than the so called white knights, whose borderline obsession to make everything political backfired in their faces as the "controversial" things they tried so hard to silence only gained more attention even from people who weren't interested in. Proper education, my ass. You're just trying to turn this into a political debate mess and take personal offense at a work of FICTION about super heroes.

I'll stop there. Don't wanna risk getting the thread locked.

Damn, I wish I had the privilege of accusing others of just wanting to turn shit into 'debate messes' and 'taking personal offense' at 'FICTION'.

Sweetie, context matters. If this was a porn comic where the point was to jack off I wouldn't be making, what, a third post on the subject? This is a mainstream comic and a comic for kids, it's really something we can and should be critical of. How many ten year old trans girls are going to be reading this comic--or any other popular comic--and see a character like them casually be violently killed, while only ever being given a token "We love her!" after the fact of her death? Or struggle with mental health issues but then see those issues only embodied in the antagonists?

Obviously I can't make you care about people other than yourself but if I can impart any words of wisdom from eighteen years of forum posting: it's okay to hold powerful people accountable and media indoctrination is a thing that exists. This is why it's important to actively think about what we consume and create.

[Nekketsu]

Ahem, back to the topic.

As I was saying previously, Toga always has got a few screws loose. But that last page is foreboding, I dare say. Ochako is not that far, I fear for the worst if she and that psychotic maniac end up clashing.

[pariston_hill]

It's not like Machia is going to do a pit stop in it's run to Shigi.

[ChibiGoku]

So, since a friend of mine linked me to this this thread and I see this "Oh, it's not political, stop saying this or that", I think this always comes from an extremely privileged mindset and also completely ignoring how a person's mindset can influence and impact a person's writing whenever something is written. J.K. Rowling's writing, for instance, is filled with anti-Semitism with how she describes the various elf like characters, as well as the stereo-types she employees here. There's a character which is "Trans" coded and not in a good way, and she focuses on how "grotesque" their "masculine" features are, which is absolutely not shocking given her political stance she has taken about LGBTQ+ issues on Twitter, including backpedaling a bit on her "Dumbledore is gay" stuff, as she refuses to explore it in her media.


While I understand this topic is mostly focusing on My Hero, I cannot like understate the importance of representation in media and how to portray characters. My Hero Academia, first-most, in Japan, is targeted towards Kids (it's an All Ages series airing late Afternoon, early evening, plus even some late night anime is targeted towards this demographic, but just has to rely on late slots due to not enough time slots). It airs next to Detective Conan, a show that their demographic goes all the way to pre-school level, notably with safety lesson videos and stuff, as well as shows for the pre-school audience. I still think these issues are important even in older targeted media, but it's especially true for stuff targeted towards All Ages.


When you have a core cast of male focused characters, as well as sexist and problematic traits in a series, it causes problems and "normalizes" certain behaviors. "Boys will be Boys" is something even is said in Japan to justify sexual harassment/assault with people in the classroom. There was a recent petition in Japan lead by men (with support by women), which goes into this a bit. The fact of the matter is, Kids see this behavior, and to them, it's normalized, and realize how they initially thought they could see the difference between "reality and fantasy", and as it turns out: They can't. Media is an extremely heavy influential piece that helps shape our views, for better or for worse. So promoting sexual assault as a joke, including spying on women's locker rooms, is normalized, and was a huge issue in Japanese schools from what I understood. It's why Mineta is a seriously problematic character and is in no way okay.


Getting into the whole issue: Seeing a Trans Character, who was fighting for their friends sake, as they were afraid to be out and open, and then just casually killed off, and only really shown characters took interest after their death, follows a long "trope" of "LGBTQ Characters Just Dying". This is more common with Trans characters, but as a whole, it's a problematic trope across all Queer characters in media. Queer characters just "can't have a happy ending", either due to being always alone, mental trauma, dying, and among issues, adding onto a lot of this tied into their orientation or gender identity. And then the character is just casually killed off, and to further add onto it, the treat the mis-gendering of them as a semi-joke afterwards.


Again, this stuff has consequences and is not a good thing to show kids who are struggling with their gender identity, especially with how kids as a whole don't have a lot of supports. "My Brother's Husband", though covers more the male gay side of things, explores how kids struggle with this in school and how they hate not being open about liking guys, or how they can't admit liking girlish things, and among other things. "Wandering Son" is also an extremely good series covering Trans issues, which depicts the cruelty and struggles Trans youth deal with in Japan, as well as the level of conformity they have to go through on top of social norms present in Japan. Both books hit hard on these issues and are, "Generally" positive on representing these issues.


My Hero, unfortunately, is not, and it's really unfortunate.


Look, I love My Hero, a lot. It does have some serious issues, though. That said, an author's view points, political views, etc., often come out hard on the work. Sometimes, it can be out of ignorance. Sometimes it's malicious. It's how I feel about One Piece nowadays with how freaking sexist and transphobic it has gotten, despite my love for it. Oda's views seemingly changed, and not for the better, and it's a freaking shame. It's also why I kinda wanna hope that the My Hero Academia author doesn't go down this rabbit hole, but there's been some concerning and potential worrying signs, notably the doctor's name that became a HUGE mess in Japan and China.


God, I hadn't logged in since forever and this was not the first post I expected to do here. But seriously, listen to LGBTQ+ and other minorities here when they take issue with the work and content in it. Nothing is above criticism. NOTHING. Especially if issues hit hard representing a community. I'm a Gay Cis Man, and honestly, it's always been so disappointing how many times the "EFFEMINATE MAN IS FUNNY, HAHA" jokes present in media just make my blood boil, and it's not something that I feel that is okay, at all. Especially as a gay man. I see it on the media here all the time, and it's definitely still a huge issue on Japanese media as well. This shit is NOT okay.

Ahem, back to the topic.

Yeah, this is not how you handle criticism. Walking away from a topic, while is still on topic, is not how you handle discussions like that. Me and Julie, two openly Queer members, are literally discussing how there are serious issues representing in My Hero, and how as a whole the media depicts and shapes people's views. It's still on topic, whether you like it or not.

[Nekketsu]

See? This is what I mean when I say people shouldn't associate reality with fiction, because it has a high tendency of going overboard. Society is flawed? Of course it is, in many forms over the centuries, and that has never changed. I will take action as any other common citizen if something is portrayed with a clear and unmistakable intention to offend someone or normalize certain behavior. But I will roll my eyes whenever I see people who cannot take a joke with no ill intent.

[MDL]

It's worth mentioning that Magne wasn't the only trans character.

Tiger from the Pussycats is also trans, he was an assigned female from birth then went to Thailand to transition to his masuline body.
He's well-liked and a part of a successful hero team.

But I do also agree that it always felt like Magne was a victim of the "bury your gays" trope (which applies to all LGBT).

[JulieYBM]

It's worth mentioning that Magne wasn't the only trans character.

Tiger from the Pussycats is also trans, he was an assigned female from birth then went to Thailand to transition to his masuline body.
He's well-liked and a part of a successful hero team.

But I do also agree that it always felt like Magne was a victim of the "bury your gays" trope (which applies to all LGBT).

Tiger's transition is only mentioned in off-hand character notes and also framed as being a result of him being a Responsible Member of Society. The thing about that is even in reality there are despicable, privileged queer people who get to stand above the rest through either pre-established social standing (money, family) or through groveling their way up to be "one of the good ones."

But yeah, one terrible use of a queer character is not off-set by a 'good' queer character.

[Lord Gaimon]

notably the doctor's name that became a HUGE mess in Japan and China.

this was just because chinese nationalists were being stupid Hori didn't do anything wrong.

[pariston_hill]

this was just because chinese nationalists were being stupid Hori didn't do anything wrong.

If Japan wasn't dismissive about their war crimes I would agree totally, just like chinese nationalists try to boycott anything that acknowledges Taiwan.
Hori should just thought of a better wood pun.

[Nekketsu]

this was just because chinese nationalists were being stupid Hori didn't do anything wrong.

Made worse when you do some research and find out "Maruta" is japanese for "round", which matches the doctor's physique.

They were lucky it was Horikoshi, and not Isayama.

[JulieYBM]

Kill la Kill is about how we sexualize the body, in particular the bodies of people assigned female at birth--the series isn't even sharp enough to really dig beyond cisnormitivity--so that's another political series right there. Ryuuko and Satsuki must constantly struggle for their right to control her own bodies. As a woman myself, that's a pretty relatable political sentiment. I imagine trans men and non-binary people also struggle with this. Society is constantly telling us what to do with our bodies because it is deeply rooted in misogyny. It really sucks.

[Lord Gaimon]

If Japan wasn't dismissive about their war crimes I would agree totally, just like chinese nationalists try to boycott anything that acknowledges Taiwan.
Hori should just thought of a better wood pun.

if his intention was really to reference unit 731 wouldn't that be the opposite of being dismissive since it will bring attention to it.

[Nekketsu]

Where you see politics I only see entertainment created purely for my enjoyment, or not.

When it comes to media in any form the fandom is always the worst part of it. Boy, how I wish Twitter got nuked to oblivion, talk about hive mind.

You're not going to get any results from trying to silence things you deem as offensive to you, all the opposite in fact. And I'm talking from the experience.

[pariston_hill]

if his intention was really to reference unit 731 wouldn't that be the opposite of being dismissive since it will bring attention to it.

I don't think so, because there a remarkably difference in how things went. Dr. Shiro and the whole unit got pardoned by the US because they were interested in the result of the biological warfare tests. They criminals walked away, and opposed to the German approach of reprimand it's war criminals and the war crimes, Japan approach is deny or obfuscate the facts, they never fully comdem it.

[JulieYBM]

Media studies and media theory have existed for as long as there has been media. Twitter is simply a platform for people to discuss media theory on, no different than the fanzines or pubs of yore.

Dismissing media studies is in large part dismissing the experiences of the marginalized.