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Thread: Star Trek... directed by Quentin Tarantino and rated R?!?

  1. #61

    Default Re: Star Trek: Into Darkness

    I'm not sure where the whole "turn-your-brain off = summer blockbuster" thing is coming from, but I would say that I definitely know the difference between a movie that favors style over substance, than one that has little or more of both. Honestly I never got the impression that the first movie over-weighed one over the other until I saw the outrage in online communities. Not there's any reason to disagree(I'm not a hardcore fan, or an avid movie goer), but I can't say that these opinions affected whatever kind of enjoyment I got. It certainly wasn't a non-stop incomprehensible action fest like Transformers tend to be. And the writing didn't strike me as cheesy like many action movies or parodies or action movies.

    I dunno. It seems a bit insulting that one can say I only enjoyed the movie because I lacked a brain or common sense.
    So, screw that high horse of an opinion.

  2. #62

    Default Re: Star Trek: Into Darkness

    Quote Originally Posted by The Beast View Post
    haha I forgot how much robby hates Abrams Star Trek
    I don't really. I never think about it except when it's brought up, and I've only seen it the once. (And saw about two minutes of it again on tv the other day. Just in time for the giant hands allergy scene. Lovely.)

    The "it's just a summer blockbuster" mentality bugs me way more than any one specific movie.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hiroy View Post
    I dunno. It seems a bit insulting that one can say I only enjoyed the movie because I lacked a brain or common sense.
    So, screw that high horse of an opinion.
    I enjoyed the G.I. Joe movie. I saw it for free and with a receptive audience and had a good time. "It was fun for what it was." a one time thrill ride.

    Could not watch it a second time. And it could have been far better as much of the other source material shows. Depth, layers, characterization, real world tech, sensible plot, interesting villains, etc. Things that other iterations of the franchise (especially the comic) have shown it easily able to do.

    It's not that a movie shouldn't be allowed to be about big explosions... it's when its an excuse in and of itself that tosses out the possibility of having a good action movie that is *also* a good movie in all its other merits.

    I love me some Jackie Chan. You go to see those for Jackie's personality and some kung fu and stunts, anything else they bring to the table is gravy. He's done so many films that they're a genre unto themselves. But some of them are better than others. They have better story, better comedy, better stunts, better overall package and are totally rewatchable and hold up to repeats, while others... don't. Drunken Master 2 is superior to The Tuxedo in every way. I will tell anyone to watch DM2, while I'll actively tell them not to waste time on Tuxedo. When I go to see a Jackie film, I hope for something closer to to one end of the spectrum than the other... but I'm still going to see a Jackie Chan film. I expect certain things from it. If I go in and there isn't *any* kung fu or stunts, and Jackie is playing a completely unlikeable jerk with no redeeming qualities that frowns all the time, I'm not getting a Jackie Chan film despite that being in the billing.

    Ahnuld's entire career is based around his pure charisma, but Terminator 1 and 2, Total Recall, are better movies all around than say, The Sixth Day, and they don't make the excuse of "Just a summer blockbuster." Twins is a great comedy film with a lot of heart to it, Junior is not.

    I'm not saying every sci-fi movie needs to be 2001 or Blade Runner, but not everything should be Independance Day either. There's absolutely an entertaining middle ground in there that a lot of movies (and games and books) hit, that's doesn't rely on the catchall of "just a summer blockbuster."

    "What did you want from Tansformers?" "I wanted what Iron Man gave me a few months later." "What do you want from Star Trek?" "Something approaching the ideas and quality most of the films and tv franchises managed fairly consistently."

    (And I'll be the first to agree Trek ran off course with its last two movies, and most of Voyager and Enterprise... so there was a multi-year lull of not-good material there... but even the fans stopped watching that stuff, NO ONE liked that! But that's more the people that were in charge's fault than the franchise itself.)
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  3. #63

    Default Re: Star Trek: Into Darkness

    I have an interesting experience with Star Trek in that the first Abrams Star Trek movie was the very first piece of Star Trek media I ever saw. I liked it, but I haven't seen it again since. And, since then, as I've made it well-known on this forum, I've finally decided to sit down and watch/catch-up on all the old Star Trek series. And yes, in retrospect I can see that Abrams Star Trek is quite different from the original Star Trek in tone and style. But as I said, I haven't seen the first Abram film since, so I really don't know what I would think of it on a second viewing, now that I have the proper context.

    In any case, I'm going to see this film tomorrow, and it'll be quite interesting to see what I think of it, now that I've seen all of TOS, most of TNG, and have just started on DS9.

    Oh yeah, and "Turn your brain off"? You mean the very thing that allows me to discern between what's good and what's bad? Yeah, no, fuck you.

  4. #64
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    Default Re: Star Trek: Into Darkness

    Hated the term "turn off your brain". Sorry but that is not how to enjoy the movie, to enjoy the movie is when you do it right
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  5. #65

    Default Re: Star Trek: Into Darkness

    I like the movie "The Fifth Element." (Don't love it, but I like it just fine.)

    Would I have liked it if it was "Star Trek: The Fifth Element?" or "Star Wars: The Fifth Element"? Probably not, it didn't have the qualities I expect from either franchise. If it had been "Dr. Who: The Fifth Element?" Actually, that tone is about right and I would have been fine with that.

    Would I like it if it was "Die Hard 5: In Space." ...maybe?

    But mostly I liked it as it's own thing.

    If J.J's Trek was "J.J. Abrams Star Tracks"? Well, I probably still wouldn't like it because I had more problems with the actual movie than with it being a reboot or using old characters. But...
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  6. #66

    Default Re: Star Trek: Into Darkness

    You don't need to turn off your brain to have fun with this movie. I did not and i had a lot of fun with it. IMO it's a difference between a dumb "brains off" summer blockbuster like Transformers and light action movie like Star Trek.

    I should say i was never a fan of Star Trek. I watched a few movies, saw some episodes of the original Series and Deep Space Nine or something when i was younger but i was never really interested in the universe. Of course when you watch television you just gain a general knowledge of Star Trek so i actually got a lot of references.

    I'd say if you liked the first Abrams Star Trek movie you will probably like this one too. Personally, i think Into Darkness is even a tiny bit better. For one it had a villain that isn't a complete bore. Cumberbatch was just as awesome as you would imagine.

  7. #67

    Default Re: Star Trek: Into Darkness

    Quote Originally Posted by RobbyBevard View Post
    Other than the fact the titles, characters, and worldbuilding are taken whole cloth from the old? And the entire output of the franchise is dedicated to this particular version of the product?

    Or that when all is said and done it'll be pretty much the only representation Trek has for a solid decade?

    Then why not just call it something new if its entirely new?
    It could have been something entirely new and different. It's not like you couldn't put a different skin on everything and call it Intergalactic Expedition or something. But it does borrow the characters and universe. Presumably because the source material did provide a degree of inspiration, and I'm sure it didn't hurt sales. It doesn't affect me much either way. It's just a new movie to me either way. It may insult the source material in your eyes, and it wouldn't be the first nor tenth time that happens to something I enjoy either, but it's up to you to let that completely destroy your ability to otherwise be entertained. If you dislike the movie for reasons completely divorced from the fact that it is unfaithful to "canon" Star Trek, that's another issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by RobbyBevard View Post
    I hear that argument all the time and its awful. "Its fun if you turn your brain off" "It's ____ franchise, what did you expect?" "It's fine while you watch it." "It's a summer blockbuster."

    It's stupid and an asinine excuse and I hate it when anyone uses it to defend a movie being stupid but full of explosions, as if Jaws, Alien, Terminator, the first two star wars films, most Bond films, Jurassic Park, Dark Knight, etc. etc. didn't exist. (And I don't even like Jurassic Park or Dark Knight)
    Most of your rant here has nothing to do with what I was saying. "What did you expect from ___ franchise?" is not the same as "what did you expect from ___ genre?" Even then, that's not exactly what I'm saying. I am pointing out the disparity between the genre of this movie and style of the series (and even earlier movies). And the genre here is "big summer action movie." If you go in expecting anything other than way too much action, then your expectations are wrong. You are free to feel upset about this, especially if you are not a big fan of such movies. You're also free to be upset if you think that even for that genre, the movie is crap. But again, it's good to be able to distance yourself from the issue of old vs. new and evaluate something for its individual merits. Though I'm sorry if as a fan you wish they'd reboot the series in a different way.

    Quote Originally Posted by RobbyBevard View Post
    You can stretch credibility without being dumb or insulting or lacking in internal cohesion. But when you absolutely *have* to stop thinking about it in order to go with the flow and enjoy it? When it absolutely won't hold up to a second viewing? When the characters all act like idiots and the explosions and CGI are more important than the character, the intent of the story being told?
    These are valid complaints if you think that as a blockbuster action film the movie failed. I liked it quite a bit, and that's just a difference of opinions. But I think you're blowing it out of proportion because of your initial expectations. Neither of us has even seen Into Darkness though.

    Quote Originally Posted by RobbyBevard View Post
    Character, thoughtful exploration of the human condition, examinations of our times and issues? Generally being intelligent? WHILE having the occasional action set piece? (Yes, trek has had more than a few duds. It's also had about 1000 episodes and 10 movies, but it has a decent average overall.)
    Some reviews I read said the new movie actually succeeded in this respect far more than the last one, in that it clearly deals with issues of our current times. For what that's worth. It actually is doing pretty well on Metacritic which is surprising.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Beast View Post
    haha I forgot how much robby hates Abrams Star Trek

    on a half detour, "turn off your brain" is a wacky phrase to me because it implies that critically evaluating or thinking about an experience has some limiting factor and does not actually increase enjoyment or understanding of something.

    it seems unfair to have fun action movies and act like they're "stupid" and can't be thought about, like there's this fictituous dichotomy between "high art" movies and "low art" movies. i love watching goofy hong kong action flicks and intensely thinking about how my fun is being derived from all these different on-screen elements
    I think it depends on how able you are to ignore the things that don't make sense or whatnot. I have a friend whose suspension of disbelief is just completely shattered as soon as any flawed scientific or technological logic shows up. He'll just spend the rest of the movie thinking about how stupid and wrong everything is. Ignoring stuff like that is what we refer to as "turning off your brain." Its validity as art or entertainment need not factor into this.

  8. #68

    Default Re: Star Trek: Into Darkness

    when i went to see this movie

    i wasn't very full, but i got a lot of popcorn and it was really great

    but i was worried eating nothing but popcorn on an empty stomache would make me sick

    but i was not sick

    i ate a lot of it and it was very good. I gave my popcorn 8/10. it was buttery too, very rich in taste. I gave it 8/10 for good popcorn, especially the texture was a very fine texture. I give this popcorn that i saw watching star trek: into darkness an 8/10

    it was a good night and i recommend it

  9. #69

    Default Re: Star Trek: Into Darkness

    Quote Originally Posted by The Beast View Post
    when i went to see this movie

    i wasn't very full, but i got a lot of popcorn and it was really great

    but i was worried eating nothing but popcorn on an empty stomache would make me sick

    but i was not sick

    i ate a lot of it and it was very good. I gave my popcorn 8/10. it was buttery too, very rich in taste. I gave it 8/10 for good popcorn, especially the texture was a very fine texture. I give this popcorn that i saw watching star trek: into darkness an 8/10

    it was a good night and i recommend it
    Whether or not you intended it, this is an interesting point. Movies are often about more than just what you're watching. If I have decent company and get decent dinner before the movie and snacks during the movie, the movie doesn't have to do a whole lot to keep me satisfied.

  10. #70
    I like videogames TLC's Avatar
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    Default Re: Star Trek: Into Darkness

    Iron Man 3 was riddled with plot holes with a story that mostly made no sense. I still love the movie and it is one of my favorite comic book movies. I don't need to turn off my brain to enjoy it, I can still appreciate it flaws and all. Because it delivers on its promise of fun characters, great action and an uplifting albeit nonsensical story. It lives up to its promises, that's why it's a good comic book movie. Same reason I love Jackie Chan movies. I don't expect a great story, most of them have poor stories, DM2 included. It still has likable Jackie and great fight choreography. I'm not turning my brain off for still enjoying the movie, I'm just appreciating it for what it is, what it's trying to accomplish.


    This movie...bland or unlikable characters, horrendously bad writing (to the point that you don't even need to think about the inconsistencies of the story but they stand right out in front of you), overly (to its detriment) indulgent fanservice. I guess the action pieces were well done for the most part but even the final action sequence felt like a step-down compared to what we got earlier in the film and most of them were just so overindulgent and nonsensical.

    Spoiler:
    I mean a Starship shooting down another during warp speed? Ejecting from one Starship into the other while avoiding all that debris? What?


    It's just so...stupid. I should just blindly accept these and look at the pretty lights? Erm, no. Even for a popcorn film, there are standards.

  11. #71

    Default Re: Star Trek: Into Darkness

    Quote Originally Posted by Foolio View Post
    If you dislike the movie for reasons completely divorced from the fact that it is unfaithful to "canon" Star Trek, that's another issue.
    That its a reboot or a different take on the characters doesn't bother me. For cripes sake, I'm a ninja turtle fan. I think the current Transformers cartoon is the best one they've ever done, in much the way Beast Wars was better than original transformers, liked New Thundercats and Scooby Doo more than the old. Batman Begins was far better than Batman and Robin. I like the new Bond films more than most of the earlier ones, the remake of Ben-Hur is better than the original. The first Planet of the Apes remake sucked, while the newest one is really good. I like Peter Jackson's King Kong, and prefer his LotR movies over the animated one I grew up on. I can play a Mario or Zelda game on any given day.

    Reboots and re-imaginings aren't inherently bad, and can often take the best of the original material and enhance it.

    I mostly didn't like the movie itself for a wide variety of reasons, mostly involving not liking the characters, overall style of the film, stupidity and giant plotholes that I was seeing even without thinking about it later.

    That it *also* wasn't a good Trek film didn't help, but I hold that against the other Trek films too.
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  12. #72

    Default Re: Star Trek: Into Darkness

    Quote Originally Posted by Thousand Lion-chan View Post
    It's just so...stupid. I should just blindly accept these and look at the pretty lights? Erm, no. Even for a popcorn film, there are standards.
    Like I said, not liking a movie because you dislike the genre, or because you think it was poorly executed within that genre, is perfectly valid. Those "standards" are completely subjective though. I think Iron Man 3 was quite entertaining but it was by far the worst Iron Man movie, including The Avengers.

  13. #73
    I like videogames TLC's Avatar
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    Default Re: Star Trek: Into Darkness

    I...like popcorn flicks. My top ten movies have several popcorn flicks including my number one. I don't like THIS movie because it's a poor movie for what it is. Sure, standards are subjective. But they are there. Telling people you should switch off any form of thinking is insulting to those great blockbusters that take the time to invest in things other than flashy explosions.

  14. #74

    Default Re: Star Trek: Into Darkness

    Quote Originally Posted by Thousand Lion-chan View Post
    Telling people you should switch off any form of thinking is insulting to those great blockbusters that take the time to invest in things other than flashy explosions.
    No it isn't. In fact it's a great compliment to an action movie if it remains intelligent while having lots of good action. But Iron Man 3 doesn't even qualify for this and you said it's great. A lot of action movies don't qualify for that, but they're entertaining if you just don't let your brain linger on things like plot holes and get mad that something doesn't make sense. Some people can't do this but IMO that's their loss, because sometimes it really can be satisfying to just watch cool things happen. You're usually okay given that the movie isn't actually just awful in every way. For example bad acting is bad acting no matter how you look at it (well... I guess if you look at it as comedy it might be okay :P). Nobody is saying you should put yourself into a coma so you can enjoy the movie.

    And obviously this doesn't work in every genre. Like if a suspense thriller has a plot hole you're going to be pissed because a movie like that is extremely reliant on a solid story.

  15. #75

    Default Re: Star Trek: Into Darkness

    TLC bitching about something that isn't a Marvel movie. Why am I not surprised?

  16. #76
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    Default Re: Star Trek: Into Darkness

    Waffles bitching about TLC bitching about something that isn't a Marvel movie. Why am I not surprised?

    Seriously, shut up. TLC isn't "bitching", he legitimately (for lack of a better word) has complaints with a film that deliberately chooses style & flashy sequences over characterization & substance.
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  17. #77

    Default Re: Star Trek: Into Darkness

    BTW Benedict Cumberbatch was absolutely incredible. What a menacing villain. Probably the best villain since the Joker. He was that good

  18. #78

    Default Re: Star Trek: Into Darkness

    Well....I really enjoyed the film. I haven't any exposure of the series before J.J Abrams made these movies though so that may be why. My dad is a huge trekkie and liked it though, I also thought the way Abrams handled the continuity would be good for old fans, but that seems to not be the case. Whatevs though, your loss on a great summer blockbuster.
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  19. #79
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    Default Re: Star Trek: Into Darkness

    Quote Originally Posted by Waffles View Post
    BTW Benedict Cumberbatch was absolutely incredible. What a menacing villain. Probably the best villain since the Joker. He was that good
    See, while I absolutely loved the film, I thought Cumberbatch's role was underdeveloped. He starts off pretty evil, then you get the impression that he's more of an anti hero but in the end he's just evil. I guess it would have helped if they had focused on one villain instead of having two.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thousand Lion-chan View Post
    Iron Man 3 was riddled with plot holes with a story that mostly made no sense. I still love the movie and it is one of my favorite comic book movies. I don't need to turn off my brain to enjoy it, I can still appreciate it flaws and all. Because it delivers on its promise of fun characters, great action and an uplifting albeit nonsensical story. It lives up to its promises, that's why it's a good comic book movie.
    I kind of get what you're saying but it's interesting to me because what you are criticizing about Into Darkness (illogical plot, unlikable characters) pretty much sums up my problems with IM3. I couldn't get into it because there was pretty much no one I could empathise with and the idiotic story just made my eyes role all the time (BUT the Mandarin thing was glorious).

    Then, one day later I watched Star Trek, expecting something similarly stupid and I loved pretty much every second of it. It's fun how people can see things completely differently.

  20. #80
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    Default Re: Star Trek: Into Darkness

    Quote Originally Posted by Foolio View Post
    No it isn't. In fact it's a great compliment to an action movie if it remains intelligent while having lots of good action. But Iron Man 3 doesn't even qualify for this and you said it's great. A lot of action movies don't qualify for that, but they're entertaining if you just don't let your brain linger on things like plot holes and get mad that something doesn't make sense. Some people can't do this but IMO that's their loss, because sometimes it really can be satisfying to just watch cool things happen. You're usually okay given that the movie isn't actually just awful in every way. For example bad acting is bad acting no matter how you look at it (well... I guess if you look at it as comedy it might be okay :P). Nobody is saying you should put yourself into a coma so you can enjoy the movie.

    And obviously this doesn't work in every genre. Like if a suspense thriller has a plot hole you're going to be pissed because a movie like that is extremely reliant on a solid story.
    But... that's exactly what you're saying. I mean I'm struggling to understand your argument here.You should never think during an action film but nobody's saying you shouldn't think?

    No, I will think, thank you very much. That's what makes good action films good. That despite scrutiny, they still hold up well. I can still enjoy a movie despite its flaws but like Robby said, there's a difference between a good Jackie Chan movie like Police Story and a bad one like the Protector. I actually like both but love one more than the other whereas the other one is okay. Both have problems, I can still think about these problems and enjoy the movie, they actually enhance my experience as a film goer because I can appreciate a film while accepting and understanding its deficiencies.

    No one saying this movie has to be masterly written, Iron Man 3 certainly wasn't, but Iron Man 3 had more than just pretty action sequences, it had characters we like, really good comedy, a better structure, a plot that made some semblance of sense. This movie was just pretty overly elaborate action sequence after pretty overly elaborate action sequence with the characters having bitchy cat fights in between. Going with the flow is one thing but when a movie expects you to not question every single thing that occurs in the movie because every single thing just doesn't make any sense and it rewards you with nothing more but pretty visual effects and keeps punishing you with badly written characters, poor story-telling and THAT scene? That's not a good movie.

    Quote Originally Posted by Waffles View Post
    BTW Benedict Cumberbatch was absolutely incredible. What a menacing villain. Probably the best villain since the Joker. He was that good
    Spoiler:
    The Khan in this movie was horrible. About as lame as Nero in the first villain. Cumberbatch really was trying his best but the character he was given to work with was abysmally written. I was actually interested in his character when I thought they were going to turn him into an anti-hero but nope generic bad guy. and all interest was lost. Doesn't hold a candle to the Joker who had actual character and motivations outside the generic "I want to rule the world". Let alone hold a candle to the original Khan.

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