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Thread: Hiatus x Hiatus III: Goodnight, Sweet Princes

  1. #3641

    Default Re: Hiatus x Hiatus III: Returns on June 26

    Entertaining short manga made by Naoko Takeuchi (Togashi's wife) about how they met:

    https://m.imgur.com/a/RbErb


    Fun read while waiting for the new chapter. Two things confirmed from reading this short manga: (1) Takeuchi is obsessed with foreskin; (2) Togashi is T H I C C
    Last edited by botnus; June 4th, 2017 at 10:21 AM.

  2. #3642

    Default Re: Hiatus x Hiatus III: Returns on June 26

    *cracks fingers* I apologize this took so long.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brainyz View Post
    I'm talking about the pacing of a single page itself, with walls of unnecessary dialogue with blank background, these pages take forever, and serve almost no enjoyment.
    That is what you meant, well I have found other series more taxing to read. Akumetsu being an example [at least from what I remember]. I found the exposition useful at exposing us to the world's intricacies or philosophies; things that do not have a cool one liner to send the point across. Different people, different preferences.

    Thanks, but if this turned out to be article long arguments, I'm sorry I won't be able to reply to them, as I'm currently very busy.
    This is why I took so long to respond.

    I have seen lots of people that hold HxH in a high caliber, because of its unpredictability. Usually because of character deaths and the anti-climactic ends to each arc, which is probably due to asspulls because Togashi rights himself into corners.
    The amount of times I have seen the word ass pull used in the past pages far exceed the amount of times I used in the past years. The meaning also varies depending on the user saying it. In its own way, I found that the deaths are actually what I would expect from a story, in fact I would argue that series that lack ~realistic~ deaths is what makes them anti-climatic. Whenever I see a death in Hunter I do not think: "WOW, I wasn't expecting that" on the contrary it goes: "that is what I expect of such an exchange".

    Quote Originally Posted by HeartOfDarkness View Post
    Can you elaborate on that point? Considering the fact that HXH barely has a main narrative that majority of the time is ignored for pointless side-activites, and had an mind-blowingly rushed ending that killed what could have been one of the biggest character-moment for Gon.
    While the overall narrative has some connective tissues, the story still has no structure, with concepts usually getting introduced and then thrown in the bin after the arc they were introduced in ends.
    First arc: adventures story, about Gon making friends and searching for his dad in the fantastical world of HxH.
    Second arc: the genre shifts here to battle shonen, with lots fights, and shonen power/abilities appears.
    Third arc: the genre shifts again, this time to a story of revenge/drama
    Forth arc: the genre returns to its adventure roots, but this time it's not like the first arc,
    And then whatever type you can categorize the Chimera ants arc into. (Everyone suddenly forgets the bizarre creatures from the first arc, and every new beast is from the dark continent)
    The election arc is basically a chasing arc, with lots of disposable characters, some of which are killed during the arc without serving any purpose, which leaves bad taste in my mouth because I wasted my time with them. (Same thing could be said for 90% of the ants, almost non of them was important until we got the royal family)
    Also, "Hi, I'm Pariston Hill, and I'm here to waste your time with fake tension, thanks."
    I figure I can answer both of these simultaneously. I think what matters here is: what do I believe is the story of Hunter x Hunter about. To me it is the story of a child that is trying to find his self worth by understanding the world his father left him for. It avoids the topics of being the greatest of all time, which is such a refreshing touch in a genre where authors use being the best as their go to theme and then run into difficulties because they need that narrative to hold and deliver progress for the character in this regard.

    In terms of Gon searching for his father I don't think the narrative fails at structure. Each and every arc holds an important lesson for Gon and his search. Mainly there is a special focus on how even though Gon is gifted he is never coming on top because of his desire to be the best. And him throwing away concepts is not entirely true. The hunter exam came back during the Greed Island arc again. The fact that the author can bring elements to make the world feel alive and to complement the main narrative: the search; is what makes Hunter so refreshing.

    I don't particularly hold HXH as some sort of benchmark in terms of writing especially when the series struggles to make simple points through its dialogues in a concise manner. Beyond the series lengthy dialogues, and mentally retarded characters being mentally retarded, lies an shallow core that tries to cover itself with "big" words, but ultimately fails to have any real depth.
    I don't hold it out to be a benchmark neither, but many of the ways it deals with shonen tropes are something that other series could adapt to put them up a notch.

    ---
    Ass pulls is something that is not established prior to the event. Let's analyze the ones you present:

    -The sadako girl not dying but turning into a chimera because her ability is to convenience to lose.
    However, the bodyguards had been amassing the civilians and hypnotizing them to undergo a selection process in which they would become soldiers. This was established way before Palm was captured, it only makes sense that if they were gathering up regular civilians, they would not miss the opportunity to go after a nen user.

    -Shaiapouf's ability to mimic Komugi, used once for plot convenience and never again.
    His powers allow him to break down to a molecular level, the progress in his power makes sense to me.

    -The entire Poor Man's Rose thing. Now there is a huge scientific advancement in the HxH world + wars that would warrant its creation.
    But the world has always being technologically advanced. There is internet, cellphones among other things. Why wouldn't the non-hunter humans not have this technology. There are guns and what not.

    -The king loses his memory, and then it returns back as the plot demands.
    Not sure where the problem stems from: that he lost it, or that he recovered it?

    -Kaito is not dead anymore.
    I will admit that I was surprised he managed to survive.

    -Killua can suddenly make any wish with next to zero consequences.
    From what I understood, there was an emphasis between making a wish and a demand.

    -Sometimes nen gets stronger when the user is dead, and this concept was introduced for the sole purpose of saving Hisoka few chapters later.
    As other mentioned, this effect was established ever since Kurapika was able to seal nen.

    ---> Damn, even though I tried to keep it short.
    Last edited by K. Kira XXIII; June 4th, 2017 at 02:26 PM.
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  3. #3643

    Default Re: Hiatus x Hiatus III: Returns on June 26

    Quote Originally Posted by desa View Post
    She/he has a pupeter ability so controling people is her ability. We also so how Kaito was remote controlled. And we even see her/him give as an order to the puppet to dance past his limits. So they are not the same thing.
    Pitou's puppet master thing directly acted according to her desire to eliminate the threat of Gon.
    Hisoka's gum coated his organs and then did the expand/contract thing his gum does.
    Both abilities did post death what they could do in life.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nilitch View Post
    I'd like to talk about "intellectualism in HxH". Lately Togashi has been introducing some scholars or/and very smart characters. What do you think about them? Your opinion? Do you thing it's good/bad?
    I'm talking about the likes of Gin Freecs, Tserriednich, Halkenburg (didn't appear yet), Meruem and maybe other characters. Also Togashi emphasized on the "knowledge" theme a lot since Meruem, with this diplomat who has access to classified informations about the Dark Continent for instance. But also with other characters like the Zodiacs or Beyond's expedition team who are all specialized in their own field. All of this is new to HxH, there wasn't such an emphasis on erudition before Meruem.

    You could argue that there are plenty of characters in other mangas who are scholars like Nico Robin and the archeologists in Ohara, Vegapunk (and Caeser?) and others, but there are way more intellectuals in HxH than in any other manga, and the author is emphasizing a lot on their knowledge. Scholars in HxH are scholars before being anything else.

    There might be some good ideas behind those characters.
    I don't think it's a new trend.
    Wing had already told Gon and Killua that only a small portion of Hunters (30% I think) developed their abilities to be combat oriented. EVen someone like Tsezguerra which was quite experienced and respected, wasn't really a strong fighter.
    Hunters weren't really presented as fighters, but as explorers and researchers, almost academically specialized in their areas. Think of Indiana Jones.
    The guys in the Hunter exam were specialists in certain areas (Gourment Hunters and stuff). So was Kaito.
    They simply haven't been featured a lot in the story, but we did saw how Kaito's team did their field work.

  4. #3644

    Default Re: Hiatus x Hiatus III: Returns on June 26

    Regarding the discussion of Hisoka's self revival. Maybe the problem that made many people feel off about it (including me) is not the mechanism of nen getting stronger, but rather the new additional uses of Bungee gum. The nen that gets stronger would make sense to be the one that doesn't need one's consciousness to be active, for example we have Pitou's puppet master and the possibility of Kurapika's judgement jail.
    1-Pitou didn't actually consciously control each one controlled by the puppet master, as evident by Pitou only knowing whenever it's removed from someone, which means it's sort of an automatic nen that acts on its own (Pitou gives it commands and then it acts on its own), so it only makes sense for it to function after the user's death.
    2-As soon as judgement jail is put inside of someone, Kurapika can no longer control it, it's more like a curse, and curses only get stronger when the one holding the grudge dies, which makes judgement jail fit both logically (it's automatic) and thematically (curse stuff).
    3.Hisoka's Bungee gum was never automatic, Hisoka even needs to use his fingers or sometimes his feet to manipulate it. The only time it didn't need Hisoka's control was when he attached it to Gon and a debris, and it basically did the physical property of a rubber. I believe Bungee gum performing CPR is not far-fetched, but it still was a function that wasn't showcased anytime before.

    @K. Kira XXIII

    Thanks for writing this reply, I find your arguments genuine, I liked them a lot, doesn't necessarily mean I agree them.
    I would like to reply to a few points but I'm too lazy to do so. (actually, busy)
    The whole Hunter x Hunter is not so well written stemmed from the argument that Togashi takes too many breaks, what I'm trying to say here, I wasn't trying to convince everyone here to drop the series, including myself, if I didn't like this series I wouldn't have gotten this far (up to date with the manga), but shouldn't HxH be a benchmark to warrant Togashi all his hiatuses, I don't think I would be this mad about the hiatuses if I knew that after everyone of them Togashi would present us with high quality writing (and art).

  5. #3645

    Default Re: Hiatus x Hiatus III: Returns on June 26

    Togashi isn't ass-pulling deaths, Tarantino does.


    Quote Originally Posted by SpaceCowboy View Post


    I don't think it's a new trend.
    Wing had already told Gon and Killua that only a small portion of Hunters (30% I think) developed their abilities to be combat oriented. EVen someone like Tsezguerra which was quite experienced and respected, wasn't really a strong fighter.
    Hunters weren't really presented as fighters, but as explorers and researchers, almost academically specialized in their areas. Think of Indiana Jones.
    The guys in the Hunter exam were specialists in certain areas (Gourment Hunters and stuff). So was Kaito.
    They simply haven't been featured a lot in the story, but we did saw how Kaito's team did their field work.
    yeah maybe before Meruem we had a glimpse of science and stuff with Kite's friends. But Togashi emphasized a lot on this theme after Meruem and specially during the current arc.

    And it doesn't matter if hunters were originally presented as "adventurers" or whatever, fact that the scholar hunters only appeared very recently means that this is recent. "they just didn't have any screen time" basically means that this is all new. The likes of Gin, Tserriednich, Halkenburg and Meruem (btw, only Gin is a hunter among these 4) didn't exist before the Chimera Ant arc. You ain't telling me that the manga didn't turn into something else with the Ants.

  6. #3646
    Kick-Ass Finalis desa's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hiatus x Hiatus III: Returns on June 26

    Quote Originally Posted by SpaceCowboy View Post
    Pitou's puppet master thing directly acted according to her desire to eliminate the threat of Gon.
    Hisoka's gum coated his organs and then did the expand/contract thing his gum does.
    Both abilities did post death what they could do in life.
    The puppet has been proven to act on orders, was controlling Pitou at the moment of his death, and did not take a day off before reappearing.
    Hisoka's Gum a power that has bee a gummy substance that requires control of his owner suddenly taking care of internal organs failure hours after death because it was ordered to is not the same thing. Even the character recognized it has a long shot.



  7. #3647

    Default Re: Hiatus x Hiatus III: Returns on June 26

    Quote Originally Posted by Nilitch View Post
    And it doesn't matter if hunters were originally presented as "adventurers" or whatever, fact that the scholar hunters only appeared very recently means that this is recent. "they just didn't have any screen time" basically means that this is all new. The likes of Gin, Tserriednich, Halkenburg and Meruem (btw, only Gin is a hunter among these 4) didn't exist before the Chimera Ant arc. You ain't telling me that the manga didn't turn into something else with the Ants.
    I would argue that Ging is the only one that is a *scholar*, the order three fall on the category that "to rule is to know" and prince Bateman is more of an enlighten psycho them anything else. HxH has always been filled with characters that use their wits to solve their confrontations. The 3th phase of the Hunter Examination, all the auction bits in Yorknew, the whole game dynamics in GI, Meruem's self discovery, EVERY INTERACTION in the Election Arc not involving Killua's and now.


  8. #3648

    Default Re: Hiatus x Hiatus III: Returns on June 26

    Quote Originally Posted by pariston_hill View Post
    I would argue that Ging is the only one that is a *scholar*, the order three fall on the category that "to rule is to know" and prince Bateman is more of an enlighten psycho them anything else. HxH has always been filled with characters that use their wits to solve their confrontations. The 3th phase of the Hunter Examination, all the auction bits in Yorknew, the whole game dynamics in GI, Meruem's self discovery, EVERY INTERACTION in the Election Arc not involving Killua's and now.
    I'm not saying smart characters are new, but intellectualism is new. I don't understand how this point can be argued tbh.

    As for Tserriednich, he is crazy but still portrayed as a scholar. And no, Gin is far from being the only intellectual, he might be portrayed as a genius or whatever but you shouldn't take him as a standard. His character is a bit pretentious though, going all "oh yeah just learned all of this because it interested me, also I play video games too" he really sounded like a young student when he said this. Like someone wearing a "knowledge is power" shirt

    And also HxH hasn't always been a wordy manga, it's very recent too.


    edit: I'm not sure to catch the meaning of "to rule is to know" though. There has been scholars leading empires in history if that's what you mean. Unless you mean that scholars must be supercool and independent.

  9. #3649

    Default Re: Hiatus x Hiatus III: Returns on June 26

    Quote Originally Posted by Nilitch View Post
    I'm not saying smart characters are new, but intellectualism is new. I don't understand how this point can be argued tbh.

    As for Tserriednich, he is crazy but still portrayed as a scholar. And no, Gin is far from being the only intellectual, he might be portrayed as a genius or whatever but you shouldn't take him as a standard. His character is a bit pretentious though, going all "oh yeah just learned all of this because it interested me, also I play video games too" he really sounded like a young student when he said this. Like someone wearing a "knowledge is power" shirt

    And also HxH hasn't always been a wordy manga, it's very recent too.


    edit: I'm not sure to catch the meaning of "to rule is to know" though. There has been scholars leading empires in history if that's what you mean. Unless you mean that scholars must be supercool and independent.
    What I mean from "to rule is to know" is the vision that a certain degree of knowledge is necessary for leadership. Ging sounds pretentious indeed, but it might because his low social skills.
    And yes, from the Chimera Ant forwards the manga has been more wordy but I don't see where this labeling intellectualism leads to. Sure characters with more knowledge are on the spotlight because it they are planing an expedition to uncharted lands, is necessary to have intellectuals to plan said expedition.


  10. #3650

    Default Re: Hiatus x Hiatus III: Returns on June 26

    Quote Originally Posted by pariston_hill View Post
    What I mean from "to rule is to know" is the vision that a certain degree of knowledge is necessary for leadership.
    Tserriednich and Halkenburg aren't known to have political knowledge but scientifical, philosophical, historical etc... Anyway, it doesn't change that they're scholars, and that we've already seen other leaders but none had such an emphasis on "knowledge".

    Ging sounds pretentious indeed, but it might because his low social skills.
    No, I believe it's because Gin is the reflection of Togashi's ego. The dude is playing videogames a lot too just like Togashi. Anyway, it was very stupid when he compared video games with learning an extinct language, as if it was remotely comparable. Togashi is sometimes making dumb comparisons, during Tserriednich conversation at the phone he made him compare Hegel, Kant (and other scientifcal shits) with football somehow. And I'm not even hating on football or video games, but that's really something pretentious (something a 13 year-old would say) to say being good at Mario worths as much as analyzing Dante (for instance).

    And yes, from the Chimera Ant forwards the manga has been more wordy but I don't see where this labeling intellectualism leads to.
    It's not about labeling anything intellectualism. But discussing it. What do you think about it ? Is this a success? I'm saying that there are some good ideas but Togashi just sounds like a youngster sometimes. Do you like those characters? Would you like to go deeper into that? etc.

    Sure characters with more knowledge are on the spotlight because it they are planing an expedition to uncharted lands, is necessary to have intellectuals to plan said expedition.
    Characters with knowledge aren't there because we're going for an expedition but because Togashi wants too. He could easily skip the diplomatic stuffs for instance. We've had plenty of comparable situations in a bunch of mangas, and there has never been any intellectual in the team. But it's not just about having an engineer, a specialist in extinct languages, a biologist and else, but portraying their speciality/work as much as possible (for instance, what the Zodiacs are currently doing in the ship, or the interaction between Gin and Beyond's team).

  11. #3651

    Default Re: Hiatus x Hiatus III: Returns on June 26

    Tserriednich and Halkenburg aren't known to have political knowledge but scientifical, philosophical, historical etc... Anyway, it doesn't change that they're scholars, and that we've already seen other leaders but none had such an emphasis on "knowledge".
    I argue that only Halkenburg is presented as a scholar in the strict sense, Tserridnich feels more like someone who values culture, a man of finesse rather than someone with extensive academical knowledge.


    No, I believe it's because Gin is the reflection of Togashi's ego. The dude is playing videogames a lot too just like Togashi. Anyway, it was very stupid when he compared video games with learning an extinct language, as if it was remotely comparable. Togashi is sometimes making dumb comparisons, during Tserriednich conversation at the phone he made him compare Hegel, Kant (and other scientifcal shits) with football somehow. And I'm not even hating on football or video games, but that's really something pretentious (something a 13 year-old would say) to say being good at Mario worths as much as analyzing Dante (for instance).
    I agree with that. But as I said as the above, Tserridnich seems like the "finesse" kinda of guy, someone that values only an specific kind of cultural luggage, or so to say the things HE values. On Ging, he has been shown to be extremely socially awkward, I thing he tends to downplay how extraordinary his achievements are because to him they are nothing to fantastical as it may seen to others.


    It's not about labeling anything intellectualism. But discussing it. What do you think about it ? Is this a success? I'm saying that there are some good ideas but Togashi just sounds like a youngster sometimes. Do you like those characters? Would you like to go deeper into that? etc.
    Well, be barely got the experts show their expertise for me to actually value. We only got Glasses-kun to judge, and although the technicalities aren't much thrilling they tend to show that the Hunter World is kinda "grounded" much like ours albeit with a lot more of weird stuff.


    Characters with knowledge aren't there because we're going for an expedition but because Togashi wants too. He could easily skip the diplomatic stuffs for instance. We've had plenty of comparable situations in a bunch of mangas, and there has never been any intellectual in the team. But it's not just about having an engineer, a specialist in extinct languages, a biologist and else, but portraying their speciality/work as much as possible (for instance, what the Zodiacs are currently doing in the ship, or the interaction between Gin and Beyond's team).
    The deal with this is that Togashi WANTS to go the extra mile on the technicalities, and like I said albeit not being the most exiting of things I found interesting because of how different it is how things are in other works. Besides, it add to the characters, otherwise the hunters would be only just like Hisoka or Netero, battle fanatics, and since very early in the story we've that is not the case. The point is that is pointless to make a character that specializes is something and not to have him show his expertise in any point in the story, we can only argue weather it pleases or not on how long and technical thing will be shown.


  12. #3652

    Default Re: Hiatus x Hiatus III: Returns on June 26

    chapter 288, I've just noticed that the nuke might have been foreshadowed here http://www.mangareader.net/hunter-x-hunter/288/10
    Netero is mentioning his heart and that he'd better deal with Meruem before his heart goes off.

    I'm saying this for those who went all "the nuke was so ass-pulled, I got diarrhea for a week"
    and the whole speech about "human bad" was already a thing in this chapter.

  13. #3653
    User of the Gumdrop Rifle Rocko52's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hiatus x Hiatus III: Returns on June 26

    AHHH I missed the news! I'm so HYPE. Prolly will rereard the whole arc so far since it's only been 21 chapters. Still - this definitely rivals One Piece as my favorite manga series of all time & I cannot wait. This'll be the best birthday present ever at the end of the month.

  14. #3654

    Default Re: Hiatus x Hiatus III: Returns on June 26

    Just caught up, loved the chimera ant arc, and how the chairman's attack didnt go to waste and we still got the tender moment between meruem and komugi
    Chapter 437 Discussion after franky decides to join the Strawhats:
    So who think Usopp is inside that duffelbag?
    H x H Chimera Ant Arc / OP Manga Spoiler
    Spoiler:



  15. #3655

    Default Re: Hiatus x Hiatus III: Returns on June 26

    Quote Originally Posted by Nilitch View Post
    chapter 288, I've just noticed that the nuke might have been foreshadowed here http://www.mangareader.net/hunter-x-hunter/288/10
    Netero is mentioning his heart and that he'd better deal with Meruem before his heart goes off.

    I'm saying this for those who went all "the nuke was so ass-pulled, I got diarrhea for a week"
    and the whole speech about "human bad" was already a thing in this chapter.
    Yes, only 102 chapters into the arc (and 5 years) and one chapter before the actual fight started.

    That Togashi set it up *literally as the fight started* doesn't make it any less of an anti-climactic cheat of a method for dealing with the problem that he'd written himself into a corner over.

    Especially given that the king survived it and then there was a hiatus and the poison part didn't come up until after a year's break.
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  16. #3656

    Default Re: Hiatus x Hiatus III: Returns on June 26

    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post
    Yes, only 102 chapters into the arc (and 5 years) and one chapter before the actual fight started.

    That Togashi set it up *literally as the fight started* doesn't make it any less of an anti-climactic cheat of a method for dealing with the problem that he'd written himself into a corner over.

    Especially given that the king survived it and then there was a hiatus and the poison part didn't come up until after a year's break.
    How is it a problem that the nuke was foreshadowed only right before the fight though? and not before in the arc?

    And the corner is that the ants are too powerful right? but before this fight Meruem's haxed power and Netero's powerlessness weren't even a thing yet. So, isn't it unfair to say he pulled the nuke at the last moment because Meruem was invincible ? (thing we only knew after this chapter)


    But yes, I still agree that the nuke should have killed him. If that's what you mean. It was a big letdown for me when his goons had managed to save his life somehow, at least he had a cute death and the part with Welfin was pretty nice to see ----but in the end he should have died right there with the nuke.
    It would have been original if the villain was defeated before his army for once in the history of shonens. But now that I think about it, the poison BS was probably invented in order to take down the 2 remaining ant generals.
    Last edited by Nilitch; June 7th, 2017 at 08:39 PM.

  17. #3657

    Default Re: Hiatus x Hiatus III: Returns on June 26

    Because that means the introduction of the solution was STILL at the very end of the story without any setup or indication that it was planned in advance. That's what makes it a dues ex machina and a cheat. That there is a panel that starts the cop out exactly one scene earlier in the story doesn't change the fact it's a solution that came at the end out of nowhere to deal with an unsolvable situation.

    Also Gon achieved a once in a lifetime uber powerup spontaneously, and also Kullua has a magic sister that can grant any wish except at a cost oh wait no there's actually no cost it's free for Killua.

    Compared to the build up of Komugi being able to outplay him at exactly one specific useless thing or how that brought out his humanity?

    It would be like in Dragonball if the characters were fighting on Namek fighting the Ginyu force, and then Trunks arrived and cut Frieza in half, before any of the setup for Super Saiyan or actual battling of Frieza or dealing with the minions had happened. Just suddenly a new element solves the entire problem with no buildup or real payoff to what had gone before.
    but before this fight Meruem's haxed power and Netero's powerlessness weren't even a thing yet.
    They had already established that the generals were miles ahead of any of the characters, and that the king was miles further ahead of them.
    Last edited by Robby; June 7th, 2017 at 09:57 PM.
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  18. #3658
    Discovered Stowaway algebro's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hiatus x Hiatus III: Returns on June 26

    Eh I don't think that page is really meant to foreshadow the bomb. Netero is being ordered to exterminate the ants no matter what, and he came to mercilessly slaughter them. How loving the king was with Komugi and his desire to talk things out make Netero realize he needs to start fighting quickly before he doesn't have the heart to do his job. However

    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post
    Because that means the introduction of the solution was STILL at the very end of the story without any setup or indication that it was planned in advance. That's what makes it a dues ex machina and a cheat. That there is a panel that starts the cop out exactly one scene earlier in the story doesn't change the fact it's a solution that came at the end out of nowhere to deal with an unsolvable situation.
    While I agree that there was no foreshadowing for the bomb, I feel like you're missing the point that this arc was supposed to be a deconstruction of the "FINAL BOSSES" shounen cliche. A bunch of enemies we haven't heard of before? Check. Power beyond anything the characters have seen? Check. Vague desire to take over the world/ cause mischief forcing the protagonists to act? Check. And then he proceeds to play with all the assumptions and cliches that would typically appear in that style of arc.

    This situation is a continuation of that. The cliche ending to the fight, which funnily enough would probably get less hate, would have been Netero using his "SUPER SECRET FINAL MOVE THAT USES ALL MY LIFE FORCE TO TAKE YOU WITH ME" and seriously damaging or killing the king. Instead, when he does this it does virtually no damage. Because the idea is, what do you when even the cliches aren't enough to defeat the enemy? The bomb isn't the important part. Togashi could have went H.G. Wells on us and made the king catch the flu after the fight and it wouldn't have changed anything significant.. Well, except we wouldn't have gotten a diatribe on the tragic nature of man haha.

    Some things, like Alluka and her powers, come out of nowhere. A nuke equivalent in a human society roughly as advanced as ours isn't the same. If you think the story would have been improved if during the Yorknew arc, one of the mob bosses said, "lets use a rose bomb to kill these thieves. It has a huge blast. And if that doesn't get them the poison will. That will do the trick." Just so we can look back at that and say it was set up I will agree to disagree.

    Also Gon achieved a once in a lifetime uber powerup spontaneously, and also Kullua has a magic sister that can grant any wish except at a cost oh wait no there's actually no cost it's free for Killua.

    Compared to the build up of Komugi being able to outplay him at exactly one specific useless thing or how that brought out his humanity?

    It would be like in Dragonball if the characters were fighting on Namek fighting the Ginyu force, and then Trunks arrived and cut Frieza in half, before any of the setup for Super Saiyan or actual battling of Frieza or dealing with the minions had happened. Just suddenly a new element solves the entire problem with no buildup or real payoff to what had gone before.
    Gon's powerup is the other moment that gets widely misunderstood. Ignoring the fact that the mechanics behind the powerup were set up since the third arc and his emotional outburst was build up throughout this arc, the powerup is probably the most interesting cliche that is addressed in this arc. Every battle shounen has the moment where the hero is in a fight against someone stronger and he unlocks a new fighting mode or ability, often through emotional stress. DBZ was most famous for popularizing this with the infamous Super Saiyan scene.

    But what actually happens when you get pushed beyond your emotional breaking point and you try to handle more physically then you should be able to? Maybe its not so cool. Maybe your body distorts itself so you look scarily unnatural, especially when your old clothes are drawn to scale and don't transform with you, and maybe instead of the cliched outcome that you get this cool new power to pull out whenever you want, it destroys you physically and leaves you a broken mess.

    Unfortunately, this cold interpretation was undercut when he was magically healed the next arc by Killua's deus ex machina but whatever it was still clever.
    Last edited by algebro; June 8th, 2017 at 07:50 AM.

  19. #3659
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    Default Re: Hiatus x Hiatus III: Returns on June 26

    Quote Originally Posted by algebro View Post
    But what actually happens when you get pushed beyond your emotional breaking point and you try to handle more physically then you should be able to? Maybe its not so cool. Maybe your body distorts itself so you look scarily unnatural, especially when your old clothes are drawn to scale and don't transform with you, and maybe instead of the cliched outcome that you get this cool new power to pull out whenever you want, it destroys you physically and leaves you a broken mess.

    Unfortunately, this cold interpretation was undercut when he was magically healed the next arc by Killua's deus ex machina but whatever it was still clever.
    Just popping in to say that this is a common trope as well. It's not just gaining a new mode that you can then pull out whenever you want, like Super Sayan. There's also pulling a stronger power up that messes your body up, like Goku using Kaioken more times than he was supposed to, or Wiper using the Reject dial 3 times when just 1 was supposed to kill the user, or Rock Lee/Gai opening more gates than their body could handle, etc. Gon's situation wasn't asspullish, in my opinion (though him being cured with no consequences was very, very cheap), it was just a common trope as well. But I don't see many people picking on it either.

  20. #3660

    Default Re: Hiatus x Hiatus III: Returns on June 26

    Yah, talking bad about gon's powerup, being in line with everything we know about nen is not objective. He offered everything in the pact for a minute of power, and had the madness to mean it.
    It is hard to properly compare it against anything else, because it was made within that system as a get out of jail free card.

    Aluka tho.. We never knew if it was nen or the cloud thing.
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