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Thread: Chapter 862: The Intelligent Ones

  1. #481

    Default Re: Chapter 862: The Intelligent Ones

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Mario View Post
    And it doesn't make sense for Luffy to just invent Gear 5 out of nowhere. 4 made sense because we could assume we didn't see everything he learned during the timeskip, and Oda can't get away with pulling that card twice. And with Gear Second and Gear Third, we at least had that tidbit from Luffy on the Sea Train right before Enies Lobby about wanting to test out a new technique he's been working on off-panel.

    It doesn't really make any narrative sense to have Big Mom fall right now. The minute Big Mom goes down, Kaido loses his image of looking so invincible and intimidating regardless of if he's stronger than Big Mom because she should be around his level. The trials the Straw Hats have met in this arc have been great in terms of showing how intimidating a Yonko in their home turf can be. That needs to be maintained if Oda wants to stick to his usual status-quo of Luffy looking like a suspenseful underdog. That, and it's just really weird to imagine the tone of a scene where where the Straw Hats reunite in Wano Country and Luffy breaks the news that an espionage and retrieval mission with half the crew ended with a Yonko getting taken down while Kaido demands a whole war with other Supernovas and Yonko allies present on Luffy's side lol.
    Well, the flashback with Rayleigh showed Luffy had developed King Kong Gun when Ray was around. Considering he was 6 months alone, he should have something even greater than King Kong Gun, but if the drawback for Gear third was bad for him, and Gear 4th exhausts him that much, then this new gear, when shown might be a 1 time thing. Anyways...

    Don't you think that Luffy and Big Mom becoming neutral/buddies doesn't affect the emperor's intimidating image? I think both scenarios are as bad. On the other hand if they just escape, and do it barely, then we all can be "holy shit! Can they even stand up against Kaido"?
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  2. #482

    Default Re: Chapter 862: The Intelligent Ones

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Mario View Post
    The thing is that all of the Yonko have been in a stalemate for years. They don't have to be EXACTLY equal in power, but the margin shouldn't be as big as it was for the Warlords (who simply consist of any convenient decently strong pirate who impresses the World Government, seeing as how Teach thought he could make it in by just handing in a 100-300 Million bounty like Luffy's before meeting Ace again). And the fall of one Yonko, unlike the Warlords, leads to a huge power vacuum in territories and factions. The impact of defeating Kaido loses plenty of its hype if we already see this sort of effect happen with Big Mom beforehand. This is a game change that shuffles the board and leads to utter anarchy. When it happened with Whitebeard, we got a timeskip to off panel most of it so it could be a fresh new start we gradual get used to in the New World.

    And it doesn't make sense for Luffy to just invent Gear 5 out of nowhere. 4 made sense because we could assume we didn't see everything he learned during the timeskip, and Oda can't get away with pulling that card twice. And with Gear Second and Gear Third, we at least had that tidbit from Luffy on the Sea Train right before Enies Lobby about wanting to test out a new technique he's been working on off-panel.

    It doesn't really make any narrative sense to have Big Mom fall right now. The minute Big Mom goes down, Kaido loses his image of looking so invincible and intimidating regardless of if he's stronger than Big Mom because she should be around his level. The trials the Straw Hats have met in this arc have been great in terms of showing how intimidating a Yonko in their home turf can be. That needs to be maintained if Oda wants to stick to his usual status-quo of Luffy looking like a suspenseful underdog. That, and it's just really weird to imagine the tone of a scene where where the Straw Hats reunite in Wano Country and Luffy breaks the news that an espionage and retrieval mission with half the crew ended with a Yonko getting taken down while Kaido demands a whole war with other Supernovas and Yonko allies present on Luffy's side lol.
    I feel you. But the same thing can be said after kaido is defeated as well. How tough will Big Mom look after Kaido is defeated? After Crocodile was beaten, did it make the other Warlords seem weak?

    Also, if Gear 4 was invented after Raileigh left Luffy alone I wouldn't say anything. But it wasn't. I'm sure Luffy has more tricks up his sleeve. Plus, there's always awakening.

  3. #483

    Default Re: Chapter 862: The Intelligent Ones

    Quote Originally Posted by Jabra View Post
    Bege is the straight man of the group, the one with the plan, the one who tells the others how difficult the execution will be.
    Bege and the others discussed the details of the plan offpanel, especially the juicy part we're witnessing now.
    Bege considers Katakuri the biggest danger to the plan due to his CoO.

    I think we can safely assume that he told them about Katakuri and why he's an issue.
    Eh the details of the plan were discussed on panel, but I guess you meant the other details. Because when they all talked, they said: we got to go, it's about time..

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    Don't get me wrong, I am the first to advocate: "oda doesn't have to spell everything out for us", just wondering if it was from that.
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  4. #484
    The Die Has Been Cast Count Mario's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 862: The Intelligent Ones

    Quote Originally Posted by Tamiel View Post
    Well, the flashback with Rayleigh showed Luffy had developed King Kong Gun when Ray was around. Considering he was 6 months alone, he should have something even greater than King Kong Gun, but if the drawback for Gear third was bad for him, and Gear 4th exhausts him that much, then this new gear, when shown might be a 1 time thing. Anyways...
    If he couldn't get rid of Gear Fourth's recharge limit in six months, I can't really see why he should have learned some other secret power aside from Gear Fourth. The whole point of learning Gear Fourth was to make up for the limits of Gear Second and Gear Third. Having the time and state of mind to build a contingency for his contingency is way too needless complicated and convenient.

    Don't you think that Luffy and Big Mom becoming neutral/buddies doesn't affect the emperor's intimidating image? I think both scenarios are as bad. On the other hand if they just escape, and do it barely, then we all can be "holy shit! Can they even stand up against Kaido"?
    Not really, considering that Big Mom's whole image is based off of making deals with people and both Whitebeard and Shanks being cool people. Now if this was about Kaido, the guy who's built up as the unyielding suicidal savage ends up on neutral terms with Luffy, then I would think it would be bad. Ending up on decent terms of a truce is still a credit to both sides. The resolve of the Straw Hats and how they were technically able to get a defeat out of Big Mom without overpowering her physically through their wits and bonds. An escape can do the trick, but there are entanglements like Fishman Island's fate and Zeff's safety that have to be dealt with before the Straw Hats leave or else they'll just end up looking selfishly idiotic. Not that they have a choice, it's just how the story will make them look since they have no realistic way to save either unless they end on good terms with Linlin.

    Quote Originally Posted by cloudrivera View Post
    I feel you. But the same thing can be said after kaido is defeated as well. How tough will Big Mom look after Kaido is defeated? After Crocodile was beaten, did it make the other Warlords seem weak?
    That's exactly why I don't think Luffy will really ever beat Big Mom. This arc will leave her weak enough afterwards for a third-party like the Marines or Blackbeard Pirates to come in and usurp her power. That way, Big Mom does not become a future dehyped arc antagonist and the Marines or Blackbeard get more hype for the series' endgame. I doubt it's possible to get an antagonist portrayal on, say, Elbaf as intimidating and complex as it has been on her home turf in this arc.

    The Warlords are a bit tricky. Because before Moria, the second Warlord Luffy would defeat, came into the picture, we learned about the existence of the Yonko. So we already knew that the Warlords weren't all too godly. And then there is Mihawk, who showed up in the Baratie looking invincible is the epitome of Zoro's dream. So the Warlords didn't really look like they became weak. And Doflamingo got built up for years, so he didn't just have Warlord hype, but hype as a character in general.

    Also, if Gear 4 was invented after Raileigh left Luffy alone I wouldn't say anything. But it wasn't. I'm sure Luffy has more tricks up his sleeve. Plus, there's always awakening.
    I wouldn't say anything either. But there's so only so many times that Oda can get away with saying "Hey, this character has a cool new trick from the timeskip I conveniently didn't show yet" before it gets old. Maybe Gear Fourth has other forms like Tankman, but anymore than that would feel cheap. Because then Oda can technically write any convenient power-up he wants without trying just because the timeskip wasn't on-panel. Even though we've already seen Luffy pushed to his breaking point against Doflamingo and Cracker+Sanji+Enraged Army. Zoro and other crewmates can maybe get away with new power ups from the timeskip because we haven't really seen them go all-out like Luffy has.

    Luffy is bound to learn Awakening. It just probably shouldn't be this early when we've already seen him been driven to the max and get defeated. I can see him learning it as a power-up against Kaido in the next arc though.

    Spoiler:
    "Life's not about finding out which card is yours, but finding out which cards you're not."

  5. #485

    Default Re: Chapter 862: The Intelligent Ones

    Honestly after they destroyed the wedding cake, destroyed mother caramels photo, tried to kill and poison big mom, then blow up the treasure in her face, I just can't see her agreeing to ally with or sparing their lives or Zeffs willingly. I think the only way out is to take pudding as a "hostage". Of course they won't hurt her and with pudding getting redeemed she would agree to it but it should work as a bluff. Big mom won't risk something as valuable as the third eye ability for her own revenge.

  6. #486

    Default Re: Chapter 862: The Intelligent Ones

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Mario View Post
    If he couldn't get rid of Gear Fourth's recharge limit in six months, I can't really see why he should have learned some other secret power aside from Gear Fourth. The whole point of learning Gear Fourth was to make up for the limits of Gear Second and Gear Third. Having the time and state of mind to build a contingency for his contingency is way too needless complicated and convenient.
    It is not about a contigency of a contigency. I agree with you to some extent. Luffy probably took the 6 months and made his Gear Fourth limit to what it is now, I imagine him using it for the first time and only lasting a minute or so. At least to believe credible challenge and growth. And within those 6 months, he might have developed Tankman and other variations for gear fourth. However, as powerful as the transformation is, I think it was barely enough to make him a contender in the New World, maybe among the top ones.

    I am talking about something he discovered during the breaking of this limit, maybe something that happened once and he has absolutely no control over. Something that might *need* awakening to be complete. Anyways, the flashback with Rayleigh could just be a prelude to the different versions like Tankman. Which is why I stand by this ~new techinique~ a bit less. However, I have already seen Luffy be humbled and telling his crew to escape. I don't see how someone whom went through that, would go against an admiral *knowing* the technique he used *to barely* defeat Doffy is not enough(considering he also mentioned the emperor's when he talked about not running away anymore.) I say it like that because I know that Doffy never stood a chance, but that is a conversation for another day.

    Luffy is bound to learn Awakening. It just probably shouldn't be this early when we've already seen him been driven to the max and get defeated. I can see him learning it as a power-up against Kaido in the next arc though.
    Well considering how powerful the devil fruit users are in this arc. I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't get at least a clue in on how to learn awakening. I think awakening by Kaido is a given almost~

    Not really, considering that Big Mom's whole image is based off of making deals with people and both Whitebeard and Shanks being cool people. Now if this was about Kaido, the guy who's built up as the unyielding suicidal savage ends up on neutral terms with Luffy, then I would think it would be bad. Ending up on decent terms of a truce is still a credit to both sides. The resolve of the Straw Hats and how they were technically able to get a defeat out of Big Mom without overpowering her physically through their wits and bonds. An escape can do the trick, but there are entanglements like Fishman Island's fate and Zeff's safety that have to be dealt with before the Straw Hats leave or else they'll just end up looking selfishly idiotic. Not that they have a choice, it's just how the story will make them look since they have no realistic way to save either unless they end on good terms with Linlin.
    This is in part why I cannot fully commit to an alliance with Big Mom, or her being ~good all along~. Before Whitebeard died, the four emperors were at a stalemate, but also the world in a way. Thanks to Whitebeard whom never seeked glory the seas were balanced. If we had 3 ~honorable~ great pirates: Big Mom, Shanks and Whitebeard, then it just takes out the threat level a bit. On the other hand if it was only Shanks and Whitebeard and when the latter died and Blackbeard came in: then it makes sense that everything is so chaotic now. We have three ~bad~ emperors and only one ~good~ to balance things out. No wonder the marines moved their HQ, things are at their worst(as of now).

    So, I agree, Big Mom is all about deals, however ONLY IF she has the most to gain about it. We have been constantly been hinted that everytime she got screwed out of one, it was the worst for her. Roger becoming king and then the alliance with Elbaf. As much as a truce with Luffy could work, we obviously know that Luffy got the Glyphs and his cook back. But then what will Mama ask in return? Part of the reason why the Strawhats ~could~ save her is all because the Strawhats are messing everything up. So them saving Linlin, her family and her territory would be because they caused her to do it in the first place. So those events cancel out, what could Luffy offer Linlin that she would accept to let them go and what would she ask in return. That is the type of truce I imagine between them, and to keep the omnious presence Big Mom has. At least that is how I imagine if that route is explored.

    On the other hand, if they escape and end up weakening Big Mom's forces further, that could be enough for her to not be able to commit any troops to Fishman Island and the Baratie, because other players would start attacking her.
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  7. #487
    The Die Has Been Cast Count Mario's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 862: The Intelligent Ones

    Quote Originally Posted by Tamiel View Post
    It is not about a contigency of a contigency. I agree with you to some extent. Luffy probably took the 6 months and made his Gear Fourth limit to what it is now, I imagine him using it for the first time and only lasting a minute or so. At least to believe credible challenge and growth. And within those 6 months, he might have developed Tankman and other variations for gear fourth. However, as powerful as the transformation is, I think it was barely enough to make him a contender in the New World, maybe among the top ones.

    I am talking about something he discovered during the breaking of this limit, maybe something that happened once and he has absolutely no control over. Something that might *need* awakening to be complete. Anyways, the flashback with Rayleigh could just be a prelude to the different versions like Tankman. Which is why I stand by this ~new techinique~ a bit less. However, I have already seen Luffy be humbled and telling his crew to escape. I don't see how someone whom went through that, would go against an admiral *knowing* the technique he used *to barely* defeat Doffy is not enough(considering he also mentioned the emperor's when he talked about not running away anymore.) I say it like that because I know that Doffy never stood a chance, but that is a conversation for another day.
    Meh. That's still oddly convenient and out of nowhere, even if it isn't an ability he's mastered. That's pretty much what The Voice of All Things is for Luffy right now anyways in terms of being an ability he has no control of at the moment.

    And that's the thing. Luffy is stupidly stubborn. He's been like this throughout the entire series. Look at how Luffy has been provoking Big Mom this arc even though he couldn't even beat Cracker without Nami's help (and let's not get into a redundant debate as to whether Luffy could defeat Cracker on his own or not, we should stick by the facts that as far as we know, Nami was a huge essential asset). He's prideful, instinctive, stubborn, and plain dumb. It's just who he is. His first impression made right before entering he New World was declaring war with a Yonko. He's not going to stand running anymore because the timeskip was meant to help everyone catchup and not get effortlessly curbstomped. It's not enough to guarantee them winning battles at all, but it's meant to at least give them a fighting chance. And in Luffy's primitive mind, that's more than enough to rely on. When things become as dire as Sabaody, he might be humble enough to recognize that everybody needs to run away. But for now, it won't happen. Because Luffy actually has a chance. Just a small indefinite chance. But it's more than enough for someone like him. Luffy's the type of guy to keep on trying to surpass himself rather than accept his limitations.

    And Zoro wanted to fight Fujitora too. As an inferior crewmate to his captain that got attacked by Fujitora and couldn't break the Birdcage (although Fujitora couldn't either, but the guy does not know when to accept his limits due to all of the nonsense he spouted about cutting it and pulling weight), he's even more of an idiot and goes to show how he and Luffy just have an ignorant meathead perspective on battling if it isn't a completely one-sided match.

    Well considering how powerful the devil fruit users are in this arc. I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't get at least a clue in on how to learn awakening. I think awakening by Kaido is a given almost~
    That's very much possible. I wouldn't mind it. It would be better to build that up soon rather than in the middle of Wano Country, where Luffy will probably decently master in time for defeating Kaido.


    This is in part why I cannot fully commit to an alliance with Big Mom, or her being ~good all along~. Before Whitebeard died, the four emperors were at a stalemate, but also the world in a way. Thanks to Whitebeard whom never seeked glory the seas were balanced. If we had 3 ~honorable~ great pirates: Big Mom, Shanks and Whitebeard, then it just takes out the threat level a bit. On the other hand if it was only Shanks and Whitebeard and when the latter died and Blackbeard came in: then it makes sense that everything is so chaotic now. We have three ~bad~ emperors and only one ~good~ to balance things out. No wonder the marines moved their HQ, things are at their worst(as of now).

    So, I agree, Big Mom is all about deals, however ONLY IF she has the most to gain about it. We have been constantly been hinted that everytime she got screwed out of one, it was the worst for her. Roger becoming king and then the alliance with Elbaf. As much as a truce with Luffy could work, we obviously know that Luffy got the Glyphs and his cook back. But then what will Mama ask in return? Part of the reason why the Strawhats ~could~ save her is all because the Strawhats are messing everything up. So them saving Linlin, her family and her territory would be because they caused her to do it in the first place. So those events cancel out, what could Luffy offer Linlin that she would accept to let them go and what would she ask in return. That is the type of truce I imagine between them, and to keep the omnious presence Big Mom has. At least that is how I imagine if that route is explored.

    On the other hand, if they escape and end up weakening Big Mom's forces further, that could be enough for her to not be able to commit any troops to Fishman Island and the Baratie, because other players would start attacking her.
    But Whitebeard is no longer relevant in the story, and he's not an easy guy to make a deal with given how he talked to Shanks. He's not a bad guy, but not entirely a good guy either. And Big Mom has all sorts of shady stuff and backstabbing going on with her modus operandi. At this point, she does not have to be a "good" Emperor. Just a bad/neutral one where Luffy, in a typical pirate fashion, makes a compromise with due to lacking options. Just like the alliances he made with Bege and Crocodile.

    Big Mom doesn't know they stole the Poneglyphs, and she doesn't care about Sanji in and of himself. Just the clone technology. Jimbei may complicate things a bit, as well as how much blame she may place on the Straw Hats for ruining the wedding before stuff goes to hell and they have to save the day. And she does not need to be the one with the most to gain. That can easily be the Straw Hats in a deal where Big Mom is forced to make a compromise in order to not lose more of her resources after all of this chaos. And Pudding is a wild card in general that is probably the key to all of this, whether she's manipulated Linlin's memories or will do so at the end of the arc to save the Straw Hats or whatever. It's all a bit hazy, but it's pretty doable.

    That's doubtful, considering how she sends out random mooks in her crew to destroy entire islands. Look at Bobbin and his bounty. It's not like she would have to give up a Sweet Commander. The Baratie is mad weak. And that would be a pretty lazy and convenient solution to all of the questions this arc, Big Mom not going anything without any of the tension being resolved at all even though the Straw Hats pissed her off as much as possible. We need some payoff here.

    Spoiler:
    "Life's not about finding out which card is yours, but finding out which cards you're not."

  8. #488

    Default Re: Chapter 862: The Intelligent Ones

    I mean it is doors away, so let's just sit back and see it resolve. At this point if anything is going down it is at least Big Mom's forces and to what extent and how much does it paralyze her we will find out soon enough. Can she afford to send anyone or not? Baratie is a ship, they would still have to chase them. Fishman Island might be a bit more difficult to handle because if the Fishmen prepare themselves, they can focus on breaking the coating, they are at their strongest underwater. Considering Aladdin went ahead to warn them.

    And with respect to Luffy. Until we see how connected the Voice of All things and haki are connected, then that is just part of his haki he cannot control.

    It's entirely possible and enough for the four gears and awakening to be the repertoire we see here with Big Mom and with Kaido. Or ever, if you prefer(I also do not wish to ponder in trivial debates) I mean the first part of your response we agree that gear four has given him a fighting chance. You just call it very small, jajaja. What I am saying is that from what we have seen, Luffy's performance is what I would expect from his training[Gear Fourth and King Kong Gun]. However, with the introduction of awakening and that gear fourth has transformation, then the potential it has is more than enough given Luffy's arsenal. With that being said, I think there is at least 1 more transformation in gear fourth: Boundman, Tankman, X? (which might be this *extra* I am talking about). I just kept calling a new gear I think, when it could just be another transformation to gear fourth, how many did you think it had before tank man? And now?

    Not sure where the Zoro thing came from, but I for sure would have loved to see that struggle.
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  9. #489
    The Die Has Been Cast Count Mario's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 862: The Intelligent Ones

    Until we see how connected the Voice of All things and haki are connected, then that is just part of his haki he cannot control.
    Um, don't you mean that until we see that they're connected, we should assume that it's an ability OTHER than Haki? I won't deny that they could be linked, but your Occam's razor logic seems a bit off.

    And I mentioned Zoro because he is evidence of how Oda likes to write meathead characters, like Luffy, that pick fights even though they should know they have little chance of winning. Zoro isn't as strong as Luffy and still wants to fight Fujitora.

    Spoiler:
    "Life's not about finding out which card is yours, but finding out which cards you're not."

  10. #490

    Default Re: Chapter 862: The Intelligent Ones

    I meant for my statement to also include the possibility of not at all.
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  11. #491

    Default Re: Chapter 862: The Intelligent Ones

    Quote Originally Posted by Megaman View Post
    Honestly after they destroyed the wedding cake, destroyed mother caramels photo, tried to kill and poison big mom, then blow up the treasure in her face, I just can't see her agreeing to ally with or sparing their lives or Zeffs willingly. I think the only way out is to take pudding as a "hostage". Of course they won't hurt her and with pudding getting redeemed she would agree to it but it should work as a bluff. Big mom won't risk something as valuable as the third eye ability for her own revenge.
    Another way out would be to have Pudding erase Big Mom and her families' memories.

  12. #492

    Default Re: Chapter 862: The Intelligent Ones

    Quote Originally Posted by GoustiFruit View Post
    Another way out would be to have Pudding erase Big Mom and her families' memories.
    I doubt this 1 girl can wipe out the entire yonkou crews memories, specifically big mom, katakuri, and smoothie. How would she even get such an opportunity against them during the chaos? I could see her getting the underworld guests which was probably the original plan.

    Then there's the case of how much big mom would forget if pudding actually does change her memory. If she only forgets the events during the wedding, then she just have a wedding the next day as if it never happened yet, which if Sanji doesn't show up then Zeff dies.

  13. #493

    Default Re: Chapter 862: The Intelligent Ones

    Pudding can rewrite the memories so she could make Big Mom believe that, for ex., she changed her mind about the SH or the marriage or killing everybody and is now a kind person instead of being evil.
    Then AFAWK, Pudding probably already mass-changed the memories of people attending previous marriages. So why not the entire crew.
    And then once she manage to change the memories of one person, that person can become an ally and help control the others one after another.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    BTW, now thinking about it: the picture of BM's "mother", could it be a memory that Pudding created to somehow control BM ?

  14. #494

    Default Re: Chapter 862: The Intelligent Ones

    Quote Originally Posted by GoustiFruit View Post
    BTW, now thinking about it: the picture of BM's "mother", could it be a memory that Pudding created to somehow control BM ?
    That's not the first time this was brought, actually.

  15. #495
    Aokiji for NN!! SHpirates's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 862: The Intelligent Ones

    Quote Originally Posted by Broccoli View Post
    O.K.

    1. Provide * evidence * of why it won't happen before saying it won't as if it was the truth. When you do, I might start caring about what you have to say.
    2. "It doesn't make any sense", Jesus Christ you people just blunder your way through discussions by repeating lines like that. My versus board was well thought-out and it displays that for each big name from Big Mom's crew there's a Firetank Alliance counterpart.
    3. I don't know why you bring up Doflamingo when it has nothing to do with anything.
    4. Well of course they'll need a very big alliance to take over Wano, this situation is VERY different, can't you see that?

    I'll also quote myself once more:


    Read that and tell me that Big Mom's "vastly outnumbers" the Firetank Alliance.


    ??? That's exactly how the fight went! LOL. Cracker just kept throwing biscuits at Luffy and hiding behind them, hoping Luffy would fight them endlessly and die once he ran out of stamina. Which is why Luffy decided to start eating the biscuits untill Cracker ran out of stamina.

    Also Cracker's ability counters Luffy perfectly, since Luffy's a brawler. Katakuri, however, seems to fall in Sanji's cathegory. (Both are CoO specialists)
    Katakori should be at the same level as Marco who could fight evenly with a admiral, are you saying Sanji is there ? I don't think so maybe in 3-4 sagas but for now he could probably take on anyone exept the comanders (maybe Cracker though).

    Furthermore, there was Compot, and the at least 10 ministers you have what 3? the remainders of firetank pirates was 6 or 7... furthermore Smothie would need something like Jimbei+Nami+Brook i would say since Jimbei is around Ace level in combat who was weaker than Vista, Marco and Jozu.

    there might be fight and so on but the last thing I would like to point out is Luffy+Capone against BM, Kaidou finished of 3 entire crews, I think if the plan fail (which it will) they would need Judge, Ichi, Niji, Yonji and maybe more just to get a fighting chance... Unless she is extremely weakened somehow.

  16. #496
    The Mad Moiselle BellisarioFaith's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 862: The Intelligent Ones

    Chapter comparisons, actually relatively early this week. Not too many big differences today.
    • The name of the chapter is "Cerebral."
    • As before, the song rhymes, at least for most of it, in the VIZ version: "There are times when love is tough / and there are times where love is rough / but after all your tests and trials / you'll finally walk down the aisle / come rain or come spears, don't let that hand go!"
    • For some reason, Mangastream had Big Mom call the Head Chef "Streusel." Jaimini's Box and VIZ use the correct name, "Streusen", though Jaimini's misspells it.
    • Reiju's thoughts about the Vinsmokes being surrounded by the Charlotte siblings are a little different in each version. In MS, she notes that their seats are open and easy to hit; Jaimini's has her think that the Charlottes don't seem like easy opponents; and in VIZ, she notes that they (the Vinsmokes) are "in a very convenient spot to be attacked".
    • In the scene with Sanji and Pudding standing at the altar where the priest begins the vows, in both scanlations, the part about "in sickness and in health, for richer, for poorer" appears in the top three speech bubbles; in the official, it appears in the bottom two instead, with the top three saying instead "Do you take this woman to be your lawfully wedded wife, to have and to hold".
    • In the panel after Big Mom thinks to herself that Pudding is too slow, there's a bubble that says, in MS, "My third eye!", as though it's Pudding thinking about it. However, both Jaimini's and VIZ instead say "Three-eyes!", implying that it's actually Pudding remembering someone calling her that.
    Hidden:

  17. #497

    Default Re: Chapter 862: The Intelligent Ones

    Quote Originally Posted by BellisarioFaith View Post
    • For some reason, Mangastream had Big Mom call the Head Chef "Streusel." Jaimini's Box and VIZ use the correct name, "Streusen", though Jaimini's misspells it.
    I didn't read the scans but seeing your post as a german speaker I have to say Streusel (derives from "Streuselkuchen"/Streusel-cake ) would be the correct choice if you want to honor the overall theme (sweets/food) of this arc
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streuselkuchen

  18. #498
    I do, bro! I do! Shadowgreed's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 862: The Intelligent Ones

    Quote Originally Posted by MrBits View Post
    You mean "I'm going to be King of the Pirates?" That's different because Luffy's actively working towards that goal in most arcs. Sanji has never made an effort to "make the marines fear him" unless they go after the crew first.

    And besides, do you really thing Oda would give Sanji a higher bounty than Luffy and Zoro?
    That quote is not meant to be taken literally at this point "fear him" but rather it translate to (IMO): I'm going to make your institution work the hardest now because ME (Sanji as the main culprit) and my captain are going to set up the New World in flames!


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  19. #499

    Default Re: Chapter 862: The Intelligent Ones

    Quote Originally Posted by SHpirates View Post
    Katakori should be at the same level as Marco who could fight evenly with a admiral, are you saying Sanji is there ? I don't think so maybe in 3-4 sagas but for now he could probably take on anyone exept the comanders (maybe Cracker though).

    Furthermore, there was Compot, and the at least 10 ministers you have what 3? the remainders of firetank pirates was 6 or 7... furthermore Smothie would need something like Jimbei+Nami+Brook i would say since Jimbei is around Ace level in combat who was weaker than Vista, Marco and Jozu.

    there might be fight and so on but the last thing I would like to point out is Luffy+Capone against BM, Kaidou finished of 3 entire crews, I think if the plan fail (which it will) they would need Judge, Ichi, Niji, Yonji and maybe more just to get a fighting chance... Unless she is extremely weakened somehow.
    Nami can control Zeus (and possibly Prometheus) and Brook can easily damage homies (i.e. Napoleon), I'd bet they'll be playing a part against Big Mom herself and not just against a commander.

    And if Sanji gets to fight with Katakori it will be a fight based on Observation, don't you think?
    Don't just go around throwing powerlevels at everything.

    Oh, and of course the Vinsmokes will get a fighting chance.
    They've been hyped as fighters and the Charlottes plan is to murder them, they will defend themselves.

  20. #500

    Default Re: Chapter 862: The Intelligent Ones

    Some dude on Youtube brought up discussion about the editor's comment that Totto Land was already half way, and that because that comment was made 4 months ago, according to this dude's math, there is like 10 chapters left for this arc.
    If you add the fact that we were promised to have Reverie and Wano this year, It kinda makes sense that this arc is not lasting much longer. And if all this turns out to be true, a Yonkou will not be defeated in a shorter arc than Dressrosa, as simple as that.

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