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Thread: Chapter 853: Not Here!!!

  1. #241

    Default Re: Chapter 853: Not Here!!!

    A clan isn't a tribe.

  2. #242

    Default Re: Chapter 853: Not Here!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by auem View Post
    But didn't Raizou say means to read and write the ancient language was passed down through the generation upto Oden?Can somebody give official translation?
    Or are you predicting that that 'means' IS 'voice of all thing'?
    Yes, but these two techniques are separate. They were talking about the Poneglyphs as a whole which contains two parts: an ancient language no one knows AND how to inscribe said stones with messages, even though they are indestructible and cannot be dented by brute force. When Raizou was complimenting the information Kanjuro and Kinemon were saying, he adds that only the methods on how to read (Ohara) and write (Kozuki - maybe it would have been clearer if he said "read and carve".) were passed on, unfortunately the latter part of this technique has been lost with the death of Oden.

    It always bugged me how Roger not only read the poneglyph,he even wrote down his words in ancient language.With Oden by his side writing should be easy,but if Oden himself could only 'feel' it we are back to square one.Also Rayleigh never said anything that implied someone like Oden was with them,someone who can decipher poneglyph too.It adds to the mystery....
    - No, Rayleigh didn't imply that Oden was with them. But he did say no one in their crew was as intellectual as the Ohara's researchers. In the page I posted, it would have been weird Rayleigh clarifying they only followed the Voice which Roger could hear. However, we know Oden travelled with Roger because he went to Raftel with them. The question would be: When did he join? That I cannot pin point exactly, but I can for sure state that he was there when the Roger Pirates were in Skypeia, otherwise, no one from the Roger Pirates could have written down the message on the Poneglyph. It seems extra strange that Rayleigh would say, we could not read them (but actually we had a member that could).

    - In this case, I am assuming Roger could hear the message in the stone once he touched it. The message Roger wrote along with Oden was very small. So, if Roger touched the stone and then pointed to the letters he was hearing, then Oden could write it. This process seems super tedious, hence why the note in Skypeia had that length. To what extent Oden had the Voice and could do what Roger did, I am not sure. I think is similar to Momo's. Which would make Oden useful as he gets sick when he is near a Poneglyph, as a tracker. (jajajalulu).

    Quote Originally Posted by Long John Silvers Rayleigh View Post
    I simply read that as they dont know whats on the stones, you'd have to know how to read them to know the info, aka the info on the stones wasnt passed and oden knew how to read and write but didnt pass it on
    - That is certainly valid, but then the page I posted with Rayleigh doesn't add up as we know Oden was in Skypeia.
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  3. #243

    Default Re: Chapter 853: Not Here!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tamiel View Post
    Yes, but these two techniques are separate. They were talking about the Poneglyphs as a whole which contains two parts: an ancient language no one knows AND how to inscribe said stones with messages, even though they are indestructible and cannot be dented by brute force. When Raizou was complimenting the information Kanjuro and Kinemon were saying, he adds that only the methods on how to read (Ohara) and write (Kozuki - maybe it would have been clearer if he said "read and carve".) were passed on, unfortunately the latter part of this technique has been lost with the death of Oden.........


    but Raizou never said that Oden could only write,not read!!!He didn't bring up Ohara or got anywhere close.
    That's why i wanted to know official translation...
    “When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always.”


  4. #244

    Default Re: Chapter 853: Not Here!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by KageKageKing View Post
    A clan isn't a tribe.
    But they are special, the kouzuki's in this pongeglyph endeavor
    Chapter 437 Discussion after franky decides to join the Strawhats:
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  5. #245

    Default Re: Chapter 853: Not Here!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by auem View Post
    but Raizou never said that Oden could only write,not read!!!He didn't bring up Ohara or got anywhere close.
    That's why i wanted to know official translation...
    Yea he didn't, but what is your view on what Rayleigh said, and the fact that we know that Oden was in Skypeia. It does not add up that Oden knew the language.

    What Raizou meant was that the only things that the ~world~ inherited were the methods on decyphering the poneglyphs, which we know Ohara studied and how to carve the stones which was lost with Oden.
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  6. #246
    Kick-Ass Finalis desa's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 853: Not Here!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Daz View Post
    Theres also just the one Ope Ope fruit, but that fruit still sort of makes a mockery of Choppers efforts.
    I'm still surprise that Oda actually made it the fruit that could do heal anything and gone as far as having Law effortlessly overshadow Chopper with the kids(who Law didn't seem to care about).



  7. #247
    I do, bro! I do! Shadowgreed's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 853: Not Here!!!

    Being able to read something is one thing, being able to understand it is something else. Roger was able to read but he need it Oden in order to understand it. Robin role is still way far ahead of everybody else when it come to the stones.


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  8. #248

    Default Re: Chapter 853: Not Here!!!

    But, is there a way to get from the NW to Skypiea? or Oden joined long ago. mmh, this got me thinking :/

  9. #249

    Default Re: Chapter 853: Not Here!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Monquito View Post
    But, is there a way to get from the NW to Skypiea? or Oden joined long ago. mmh, this got me thinking :/
    Maybe Roger did multiple trips over the Grandline.

  10. #250

    Default Re: Chapter 853: Not Here!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowgreed View Post
    Being able to read something is one thing, being able to understand it is something else. Roger was able to read but he need it Oden in order to understand it. Robin role is still way far ahead of everybody else when it come to the stones.
    - This doesn't clear up the point I was trying to make about what Rayleigh told Robin when they met in Shabondy. Rayleigh said they did not have anyone with the capabilities that the scholars of Ohara had, they relied on the Voice of all things.

    - Oden was with them in Skypeia for sure. This is confirmed by the Roger Pirates being able to inscribe their message on the stone.

    - Knowing Oden was with them in Skypeia, then it doesn't add up that Rayleigh said they could not read the poneglyphs, but in truth they actually could because Oden was there. So instead of thinking that is a mistake, if Oden only knew how to carve the stones and was also a user of the Voice, then things add up better.

    - I have seen the page with Raizou, quite a few times now, and as much as I elaborated on that, no one has elaborated on what Rayleigh said. So I feel like I am just repeating my posts over and over again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Monquito View Post
    But, is there a way to get from the NW to Skypiea? or Oden joined long ago. mmh, this got me thinking :/
    Quote Originally Posted by ARTEMlS View Post
    Maybe Roger did multiple trips over the Grandline.
    - It has been confirmed that Roger made at least two trips. The first one took him to the end of the Log Pose, there he learned about the Poneglyphs and the Ancient Kingdom. However, during this time, his disease was getting worse, so they went back and recruited Crocus and possibly Oden along the way. If Oden was there when they recruited Crocus, then the Roger Pirates going to Skypea is feasible.

    - Either way, we saw people like Ace going back to Paradise from the New World as that is where Whitebeard would most likely be. It should not be difficult for the Roger Pirates to do the trip back.
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  11. #251

    Default Re: Chapter 853: Not Here!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tamiel View Post
    - Oden was with them in Skypeia for sure. This is confirmed by the Roger Pirates being able to inscribe their message on the stone.

    - Knowing Oden was with them in Skypeia, then it doesn't add up that Rayleigh said they could not read the poneglyphs, but in truth they actually could because Oden was there. So instead of thinking that is a mistake, if Oden only knew how to carve the stones and was also a user of the Voice, then things add up better.
    I think two things should be cleared. First was it explicitly stated that Oden knew language or just how to damage/carve the stone and was Rogers message on Skypea written on stone or side golden pillars? I always remebered it like it was written in gold and that oden didnt know language only how to carve but i could easily have misinterpreted or misremembered both.

  12. #252

    Default Re: Chapter 853: Not Here!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by statu variabilis View Post
    was Rogers message on Skypea written on stone or side golden pillars? I always remebered it like it was written in gold and that Oden didn't know language only how to carve but i could easily have misinterpreted or misremembered both.
    I couldn't tell about the extent of Oden's knowledge since the root of that is most likely translation subtleties, however the inscription near the Shandora bell was clearly carved on the gold base, not the poneglyph itself. In the manga (chapter 301) the background texture in the close-up suggests gold and for what it's worth, the anime makes it unmistakable.

    So we're back to square 0. Oden could have come to Skypiea and carved Roger's message on his behalf thanks to a knowledge of the ancient language, or he could have been absent and Roger would still have managed to carve in gold (easy task) thanks to whatever knowledge the Voice of All Things actually granted to him.
    It seems until we know for a fact what the VoAT can or cannot do, we're down to speculation.

  13. #253

    Default Re: Chapter 853: Not Here!!!

    Kaidou will kidnapp Pudding as soon as she awakens her power. He will steal her third eye and implant it on himself. Naruto eyefest invading one piece.


  14. #254

    Default Re: Chapter 853: Not Here!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Seafarer33 View Post
    I couldn't tell about the extent of Oden's knowledge since the root of that is most likely translation subtleties, however the inscription near the Shandora bell was clearly carved on the gold base, not the poneglyph itself. In the manga (chapter 301) the background texture in the close-up suggests gold and for what it's worth, the anime makes it unmistakable.

    So we're back to square 0. Oden could have come to Skypiea and carved Roger's message on his behalf thanks to a knowledge of the ancient language, or he could have been absent and Roger would still have managed to carve in gold (easy task) thanks to whatever knowledge the Voice of All Things actually granted to him.
    It seems until we know for a fact what the VoAT can or cannot do, we're down to speculation.
    - This just proves further that I have lighten my re-reads of the series and my memory sucks balls. Looking back, it is on the base and not the poneglyph itself. I think Rayleigh's words should include Oden unless he was recruited way after, near the end of their second journey. But given that I just suck, I'll leave it at: Oden could potentially know it.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by statu variabilis View Post
    I think two things should be cleared. First was it explicitly stated that Oden knew language or just how to damage/carve the stone and was Rogers message on Skypea written on stone or side golden pillars? I always remebered it like it was written in gold and that oden didnt know language only how to carve but i could easily have misinterpreted or misremembered both.
    - I inferred that Oden knew only how to carve. We had just been exposed to the fact that he is a stonemason on the previous page, the only reason reading was brought up was because Luffy started asking if they knew what it said. However, I have been wrong remembering some of these pages, so I will stop pushing the idea.
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  15. #255
    The Mad Moiselle BellisarioFaith's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 853: Not Here!!!

    VIZ/Mangastream comparisons wa koko ni imasu!
    • It's a pretty subtle difference, but in MS, Brook noted to himself, "Pudding is a three-eyes?" which seems to imply that he knows of the three-eyed tribe and thus is basically saying, 'Pudding's a member of them?' In VIZ, he thinks "Pudding has three eyes?" which could be him surprised that Pudding has a third eye at all, not necessarily recognizing her tribe.
    • Pudding's thoughts to herself about Brook being captured seemed to raise a fair number of suspicions. Here, she says, "So that skeleton man got in here. Well...at least they caught him." I think this line sounds a bit less shady than the original one.
    • Like with "Tamago" to "egg", VIZ doesn't translate the names into "chick" and "chicken" (presumably because they're names), so they're calling him "Viscount Hiyoko" and "Count Niwatori". (Kind of funny how they did translate "Inuarashi" and "Nekomamushi" back in Zou, then, though). However, in the bubble where they're saying "he goes from baron to viscount to count", they do translate all three words, likely to explain the meanings to readers who don't know Japanese.
    • Where Carrot says "You're amazing, Pedro! ♥" in MS, she says "That's the kind of quick thinking I knew you could do, Pedro! ♥" in VIZ.
    • Pedro's words about Carrot's drawing: instead of "What sort of art style is that?!", it's "Why are they so beautful?!"
    • Instead of "Minister-class backup", the call is specifically for "all Ministers".
    • Luffy's weird-sounding line from MS after he said he's glad Sanji wasn't tricked, "Everything besides that's already been done," is clarified to be "I've done everything else I can!"
    • Another one with a very small word difference that could be significant: in MS, Sanji says "There's no going back now, Luffy..." Ambiguous, but could more be taken to mean that Sanji might not come back to the crew. In VIZ, it's "There's no turning back now, Luffy..." which is still ambiguous, but doesn't seem to imply him leaving the crew quite as much.
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  16. #256

    Default Re: Chapter 853: Not Here!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by BellisarioFaith View Post
    VIZ/Mangastream comparisons wa koko ni imasu!
    • Another one with a very small word difference that could be significant: in MS, Sanji says "There's no going back now, Luffy..." Ambiguous, but could more be taken to mean that Sanji might not come back to the crew. In VIZ, it's "There's no turning back now, Luffy..." which is still ambiguous, but doesn't seem to imply him leaving the crew quite as much.
    Aha I predicted this was whaat oda was trying to convey mid read.
    Chapter 437 Discussion after franky decides to join the Strawhats:
    So who think Usopp is inside that duffelbag?
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  17. #257

    Default Re: Chapter 853: Not Here!!!

    I was pretty certain even from the scanlations that Sanji was saying there is no turning back now, referring to staying with Big Mom. While it can still be taken either way, VIZ's translation just makes it that much more clear to me.
    Folks who read One Piece... Just better people. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

  18. #258
    Ship Surfer The Tenth Strawhat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 853: Not Here!!!

    I noticed something after reading Faith's VIZ translation summary and the YonkouProductions translation, is that the latter is a lot more accurate to the official translation way more than MangaStream.
    The face of a Straw Hat.

  19. #259

    Default Re: Chapter 853: Not Here!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by BellisarioFaith View Post
    • Like with "Tamago" to "egg", VIZ doesn't translate the names into "chick" and "chicken" (presumably because they're names), so they're calling him "Viscount Hiyoko" and "Count Niwatori". (Kind of funny how they did translate "Inuarashi" and "Nekomamushi" back in Zou, then, though). However, in the bubble where they're saying "he goes from baron to viscount to count", they do translate all three words, likely to explain the meanings to readers who don't know Japanese.
    I think it has less to do with them being names and more about keeping Tamago as a character consistent, since they locked themselves into Japanese words back in volume 66, too long ago to retcon. Using the random mook's speech bubble to explain what's going on in-universe instead of doing a translator's note or anything else was a real smooth way to cover it though.

    (presumably because they're names)
    (Kind of funny how they did translate "Inuarashi" and "Nekomamushi" back in Zou, then, though)
    Earlier in the thread I posted some thoughts about translating names and handling the process on a case by case basis, so it doesn't bother me that Dogstorm and Catviper were written in English while Tamago wasn't (as much as I now think Tamago would have worked better translated). Stephen, at the time they were introduced made the call that the meanings of the names were more relevant to English readers than their pronunciation. Zou isn't especially Japanese looking in culture or setting, and the names of all the other minks are relatively simple, and often western sounding, so having two guys with five-syllable, inescapably Japanese names in the middle of that feels a little out of place. Plus the names are descriptive, and are used to build up their owners before we meet them. I'm sure most translators, had they known this was coming for Tamago, would have handled him differently from the start.

    I don't think it's enough to assume no translation is needed for a name, just because it's a name. What the author intended the name to say to the reader has to be taken into account. The character's context has to be taken into account.

    (But note that I'm only talking about translating fiction here. In real life, a person's name is their name and changing it between languages would be super disrespectful, and should probably not ever be done. Characters in stories, however, are not real people. They were created to serve a purpose within a narrative, and sometimes changing the names will allow that purpose to be better served a new language.)

  20. #260

    Default Re: Chapter 853: Not Here!!!

    I don't know where else to post this. But yeah, was Pudding's 3rd eye a plot twist to a lot of people? Because reactions from other sites make it seem so, even though she had it in fishman island. Even the tea party was mentioned chapter (651).
    FMA 03> FMA Brotherhood

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