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Thread: Chapter 853: Not Here!!!

  1. #221

    Default Re: Chapter 853: Not Here!!!

    So, whoever has the voice of all things will understand the language of massive blocks of stone? I didn't even know they could talk.
    It's one thing to understand the thoughts or voices of Zunisha and other animals, but inanimate objects?

  2. #222
    I do, bro! I do! Shadowgreed's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 853: Not Here!!!

    Has anyone posted any 'good' thoughts on what the outcome of this arc might be, If so, can you tell me where it is. Thank you!


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  3. #223
    Division Commander Daz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 853: Not Here!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by HacheBe View Post
    Except she can't actually read it yet for whatever reason she has to learn to be able to do it. Which is probably why it wasn't such a big reveal. She doesn't actually know how to do it yet.
    Her maybe not being able to read them just yet actually affects my point very little. The reveal has still been made, the information is out there, presented extremely casually.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Jabra View Post
    Robin is still the star once they reach Raftel, and Oda has set that up nicely with Rayleigh questioning the conclusion of the Roger Pirates.
    Quote Originally Posted by Buggy D. Clown View Post
    Yes, that's what I said too. Robin is still the only one that can get the exact information.

    As for BM & Kaidou, I don't think they care about the void century.
    Quote Originally Posted by Chrior View Post
    So, in the end, there is no reason to think any kind of Poneglyph reading is cheapened, especially Robin, who has a far superior advantage, by actually being able to read the damn text. Although there was also another family who could read the texts, the knowledge was restricted to something like 3-5 people per generation and has been lost completely due to Kaido killing Oden. So yes, Robin remains really special, with her reading ability and the immense historical and "poneglyphical" knowledge she has accumulated, that can help her put together the Rio Poneglyph, something that no other party can even dream of
    Robin is still unique, but her uniqueness has shifted a great deal since the beginning.
    We started with “Through dilligent research the Oharans became the only people capable of reading Poneglyphs, a skill so dangerous to the world Government had the entire civilization pay for it with their lives. As the last Oharan Robin is the only living person capable of reading Poneglyphs, and is a crucial key to the ancient history and its weapons, as seen in Alabasta and Enies Lobby.”¨
    Now we’re at “Actually, besides Ohara theres’ still bloodlines and whole tribes capable of reading Poneglyphs due to innate abilities, and thus can get ancient history/weapon info and directions to Raftel. But Robin is the only one who can appreciate the full historical content of the glyphs!”
    Robin still important. But now her importance has caveats. Robin has a head start in Void Century 101 due to her studies and inheritance of the Oharan research discoveries, but this new tribe of magic eyeball-havers can skip that step interely.


    And About the “unfairness” of the Straw Hats having the one Robin, the “fairness” of other Poneglyph-decoding options being available, and Roger logically wanting as many people as possible to be able to find One Piece…

    1: In-universe Roger was executed years before Ohara got nuked, and IRL Roger was executed years before Poneglyphs and Robin were a thing.

    2: If Robin is still unique in terms of being the only one to grasp the full context of the Raftel poneglyphs, even if others can read them…then that, once again, makes the Straw Hat crew the only people in existence capable of accomplishing Rogers goal. You can’t have everyone capable of reaching the goal Roger set and have Robin be special at the same time.

    3: Poneglyph reading is only essential for reading Raftel, because Oda made it so 30 chapters ago. His hands are tied now, but Poneglyphs didn’t need to be essential for directions; some other, more easily readable markers could’ve been implemented, especially if the goal is to make it feasible for people to actually get to One Piece. Then, once you get to Raftel, Poneglyph reading could be the key for unlocking the true, hidden message on the island. This is just an example, but you get the idea.

    4: If we accept that alternate Poneglyph decoding methods are a necessity, these methods deserve proper buildup and delivery. Its already a bit much to swallow that we’re at 2/4 super poneglyphs 30 chapters after the concept of super-poneglyphs was introduced.

  4. #224
    Flagon Snaggin' Dragon Kaido King of the Beasts's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 853: Not Here!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Daz View Post
    Robin has a head start in Void Century 101 due to her studies and inheritance of the Oharan research discoveries, but this new tribe of magic eyeball-havers can skip that step interely.
    No because they can't immediately access that power.


    Spoiler:

  5. #225
    Division Commander Daz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 853: Not Here!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaido King of the Beasts View Post
    While Big Mom's reveal of Pudding's possible ability might be less direct and "momentous" than such reveals usually are, it's far from out of the blue. We first saw Pudding in her three-eyed glory 200 chapters ago. Then she went on to play a major role in the arc right off the bat, even though in much of it we were unaware she was the same person from before. Then, over the course of this arc, we learned that Big Mom loves her Poneglyphs almost as much as she loves sweets, that she's extremely eager to finally get over the hump after over two decades, and that she has a diversity fetish. Thus, why would she not do something like this? It would seem admittedly pretty strange if she didn't. Also, this pretty much explains why Pudding said she was Big Mom's favorite daughter who gets doted on; something like that definitely makes more sense than simply her acting ability.

    The idea that three-eyed Big Mom high-profile crewmember with slime on her shoulder was different than the identical high-profile crewmember with slime on her shoulder and hair curiously covering her forehead were different people was always a bit weird to me. But regardless, neither that nor the fact that she was introduced many chapters in advance serves as foreshadowing of something as game-changing as Poneglyph-reading ability, just that she was going to be important. And Pudding explicitly states her acting ability as the reason for Big Moms affection; you can retroactively go “I guess Big Mom needed a poneglyph reader and Pudding is a high-profile crewmember, so I guess it makes sense for her to be it”, but it wasn’t really foreshadowed- and you can tell that, because the reveal of the ability is not presented as a payoff, like her true evil nature was.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaido King of the Beasts View Post
    Ultimately, I don't believe this reveal is meant to stand on its own. There are so many bits and pieces that have been revealed about Big Mom that give some answers, but oftentimes just end up leaving more questions. It reminds me of how bits and pieces of Doflamingo's past were sprinkled in the early Dressrosa arc, first about the Donquixote Family's past in Dressrosa, which was fully elaborated on by Riku in the toy pit flashback, and then Doffy's own past as a fallen World Noble, fully elaborated on in the middle of Law's flashback in the final battle.
    Regardless of what comes next, the reveal has already been made. You can’t play it for effect again later, in the same way a Pedro flashback would have had all its most dramatic moments shown in advance. And thus, it’s a problem that the reveal has no impact.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaido King of the Beasts View Post
    No because they can't immediately access that power.
    We have zero idea what requirements there are for this power, just that its a genetic thing that select people can somehow awaken in order to instantly do what takes a team of normal people decades of research to accomplish. Theres also just the one Ope Ope fruit, but that fruit still sort of makes a mockery of Choppers efforts.

  6. #226

    Default Re: Chapter 853: Not Here!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Daz View Post
    it’s a problem that the reveal has no impact.
    The reveal has impact, but unfortunately no good one. What this reveal does is to turn Big Mom dumber - from decently smart into overly arrogant and underestimating the Strawhats like everyone else. Seriously, why did she have to reveal such crucial information in such a blatant unnecessary way?!

  7. #227

    Default Re: Chapter 853: Not Here!!!

    I seriously read somewhere else, and even before this chapter, that she was able to read the phoneglyphs because she had three eyes. Luffy Logic at it's finest, like the 3 eared girl from futurama can understand any language.

    This is another issue with splitting the crew, if robin was here, doing what Reiju was doing, doing spy stuff at the castle and getting oneshoted, we could had a kickass reveal like:

    Robin finds one of the stones and starts reading it, is the uselesstest one, but she's eating it up, then suddenly pudding sneaks up on her and takes over the reading, reveal the third eye, properly reveal the VOAT ability to read the stones and set up the emperors back as not only roadblocks but rivals.

    Right now is like if just after Dressrossa suddenly a weird old dude jumps on the boat with them, Barto puts his poster on with the rest of the strawhats, and suddenly we had a new member with us all this time and they forgot him because of sugar and that dude is Vegapunk and no one in the story reacts at this event.
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  8. #228
    Flagon Snaggin' Dragon Kaido King of the Beasts's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 853: Not Here!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bartholemew Bear View Post
    The reveal has impact, but unfortunately no good one. What this reveal does is to turn Big Mom dumber - from decently smart into overly arrogant and underestimating the Strawhats like everyone else. Seriously, why did she have to reveal such crucial information in such a blatant unnecessary way?!
    She's always been portrayed like that. She immediately knew the Straw Hats entered Totto Land, but let them go all the way to Whole Cake so she could play with them, only sending in Cracker and later the Enraged Army once she decided not to risk having them ruin the wedding, because unlike becoming Pirate King, the wedding is a short term event that can be altered significantly with just a few actions. Then, when Luffy declared war on her while he was imprisoned, she straight up said that he was nothing compared to her, calling him "a mere grain of sand in the desert". Her attitude is also reflected pretty well by Brulee when she gave the spiel about the huge gap in power between Big Mom and the Worst Generation.

    Also, there were other factors in Big Mom's reveal about the Poneglyphs that didn't make it dumb - first, she believes Brook wasn't after her Poneglyphs after searching him, so she has no reason to believe he would care about such information. Plus, the reveal wasn't even direct, as many people have pointed out - Big Mom tells Brook that she has a plan to get to Raftel, and then she asks Pudding when she comes in if she's achieved her true opening - obviously, we're supposed to infer the connotations of that, but she in no way indicated to Brook that Pudding can read the Poneglyphs. Pudding herself stated that Big Mom asks her that all the time, so while Big Mom IS likely to have been reminded to ask it since she was on the subject of it, this reveal doesn't pave the way for other characters to make immediate deductions.

    Lastly, how is this information crucial to the Straw Hats themselves? They don't need Pudding, they have Robin; why should they care if the former can possibly unlock the ability to read the Poneglyphs in the future?


    Spoiler:

  9. #229
    King of the Monsters Lucky Dragon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 853: Not Here!!!

    Oh look, my new favorite pairing is practically canon. I guess this means a clash between Luffy and Linlin is inevitable, cause she won't give up her next husband/collectible without a fight! Seriously though, it's pretty hilarious how happy Brook makes her. She likes him more than her favorite desserts even!

    I would also like to know more of the history between Linlin and Gold Roger.

    So Baron Tamago has a neat devil fruit ability. Reminds me of a phoenix. Pedro sure doesn't mess around, you can see the jaguar in him this chapter, he went straight for the kill.

    I love how the Mirror World looks, makes me think of Beetlejuice.

    So it appears that Luffy is going back to the spot he said he wouldn't move from until Sanji cooks for him again. Interesting turn of events, I like the idea of Luffy being confident enough in Sanji to let him work things out for himself. I know that's subject to change but I like the gesture all the same.

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  10. #230

    Default Re: Chapter 853: Not Here!!!

    If the Strawhats want to make a power move, they'll make the cake hostage in the Mirror World.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaido King of the Beasts View Post
    I'm pretty sure he could, because of what this page says:
    I read that as: No one knows the meaning of those stones, regardless of clan, etc. Unless you know how to read them like the scholars of Ohara studied and analayzed. The Kozuki Clan can inscribe onto the stones the messages. Do you not find it amazing that the Kozuki clan is able to record messages in the supposedly indestructible Poneglyph? I would think that the art of carving is enough of a feat. They do not need to know the language to write it, the Kozuki ancestors could have been given a paper with the imprint, and then they carved it, just copying what they see, without understanding. Burn the paper after.

    Or then this page doesn't add up:
    Hidden:


    Oden, the stonemason, was with them in Skypeia, it makes sense because they were able to write their message. Rayleigh's explanation, clearly states they followed the Voice of All Things. They had no one like the intellectuals of Ohara. If Oden could use the Voice of All Things to read them, I cannot answer that yet. So far, if he had a similar ability like Momo then Oden feels sick whenever close to a Poneglyph, and can command elephants.
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  11. #231

    Default Re: Chapter 853: Not Here!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tamiel View Post


    I read that as: No one knows the meaning of those stones, regardless of clan, etc. Unless you know how to read them like the scholars of Ohara studied and analayzed. The Kozuki Clan can inscribe onto the stones the messages. Do you not find it amazing that the Kozuki clan is able to record messages in the supposedly indestructible Poneglyph? I would think that the art of carving is enough of a feat. They do not need to know the language to write it, the Kozuki ancestors could have been given a paper with the imprint, and then they carved it, just copying what they see, without understanding. Burn the paper after.

    .................................
    Oden, the stonemason, was with them in Skypeia, it makes sense because they were able to write their message. Rayleigh's explanation, clearly states they followed the Voice of All Things. They had no one like the intellectuals of Ohara. If Oden could use the Voice of All Things to read them, I cannot answer that yet. So far, if he had a similar ability like Momo then Oden feels sick whenever close to a Poneglyph, and can command elephants.
    But didn't Raizou say means to read and write the ancient language was passed down through the generation upto Oden?Can somebody give official translation?
    Or are you predicting that that 'means' IS 'voice of all thing'?
    It always bugged me how Roger not only read the poneglyph,he even wrote down his words in ancient language.With Oden by his side writing should be easy,but if Oden himself could only 'feel' it we are back to square one.Also Rayleigh never said anything that implied someone like Oden was with them,someone who can decipher poneglyph too.It adds to the mystery....
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  12. #232

    Default Re: Chapter 853: Not Here!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Mario View Post
    I'm not sure if that's just Manga Stream being Manga Stream, but naming a character based on a pun about how they died is ALWAYS going to be morbidly hilarious.

    I'm kind of okay with there being other methods to read the Poneglyphs besides Robin. It always felt a bit unfair to me once Zou that she is the only hope possible for interpreting Poneglyphs and she just happens to be in the main protagonist's group (not that the Straw Hats didn't go through Hell and back to earn someone of her caliber, they definitely did). Not that we aren't going to get a bit of hot potato with Robin considering how conspicuous Nekomamushi was in the pages Kage posted. But that only makes sense with Kaido and/or Blackbeard at this point.

    My only issue is with the lackluster EXECUTION of how Pudding's capabilities of reading Poneglyphs are so casually tossed out for such a major exclusive skill. Especially when we still barely know much about the concept of the Voice of All Things. It makes sense for Linlin (and probably Kaido) to want individuals like them, but it should be treated with more build-up and gravitas like such a reveal deserves. Especially with how the Third-Eye race's importance conveniently came out of nowhere.
    My prediction is that the third eye race faced a WG Genocide due to fears their powers could lead to the ponglyphs being read, it would explain why they could be so unmentioned as there could be few of them in number.

    I feel like that could be oda's last barrier he can cross, he's had slavery so why not genocide.

    Or if not the 3 eyed race maybe people with The D initial were hunted without mercy.

    The after effects of a world war ( especially a hundred year one ) are horrifying, Berlin suffered massive destruction and thousands of inhumane crimes, carthage was salted, jerusalem had children and women burned alive. Oda wont go that far but this post got me thinking of this topic and I wonder if oda will explore iit

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by KageKageKing View Post
    There is like only 4 of those stones in the world and we don't Kaido really knew that Oden went to Raftel. The Shogun might be, but it is unknow if Kaido knew that before killing Oden.
    Pretty sure the manga confirmed kaido was after momo especially because he figured he knew something by being oden's son, chapter 818, 819 or 820. Momo was wamted for reasons beyond his heritage as a mere daiymo isnt important enough imo to warrant all the efforts to capture him instead of killing him by assassination

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Tamiel View Post
    If the Strawhats want to make a power move, they'll make the cake hostage in the Mirror World.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---



    I read that as: No one knows the meaning of those stones, regardless of clan, etc. Unless you know how to read them like the scholars of Ohara studied and analayzed. The Kozuki Clan can inscribe onto the stones the messages. Do you not find it amazing that the Kozuki clan is able to record messages in the supposedly indestructible Poneglyph? I would think that the art of carving is enough of a feat. They do not need to know the language to write it, the Kozuki ancestors could have been given a paper with the imprint, and then they carved it, just copying what they see, without understanding. Burn the paper after.

    Or then this page doesn't add up:


    Oden, the stonemason, was with them in Skypeia, it makes sense because they were able to write their message. Rayleigh's explanation, clearly states they followed the Voice of All Things. They had no one like the intellectuals of Ohara. If Oden could use the Voice of All Things to read them, I cannot answer that yet. So far, if he had a similar ability like Momo then Oden feels sick whenever close to a Poneglyph, and can command elephants.
    I simply read that as they dont know whats on the stones, you'd have to know how to read them to know the info, aka the info on the stones wasnt passed and oden knew how to read and write but didnt pass it on
    Chapter 437 Discussion after franky decides to join the Strawhats:
    So who think Usopp is inside that duffelbag?
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  13. #233
    The Die Has Been Cast Count Mario's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 853: Not Here!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Long John Silvers Rayleigh View Post
    My prediction is that the third eye race faced a WG Genocide due to fears their powers could lead to the ponglyphs being read, it would explain why they could be so unmentioned as there could be few of them in number.

    I feel like that could be oda's last barrier he can cross, he's had slavery so why not genocide.

    Or if not the 3 eyed race maybe people with The D initial were hunted without mercy.

    The after effects of a world war ( especially a hundred year one ) are horrifying, Berlin suffered massive destruction and thousands of inhumane crimes, carthage was salted, jerusalem had children and women burned alive. Oda wont go that far but this post got me thinking of this topic and I wonder if oda will explore iit
    That's definitely possible. But if it is, that just makes it disappointing for Robin to miss out on meeting a character like Pudding who she can relate with and also find dark mirror image in.

    Also, wasn't what happened in Law's flashback of White Town pretty much genocide? Ohara was also a case of genocide. So it's not too far at all for Oda.

    Spoiler:




















    All of this encompasses Holocaust-levels of morbid imagery.

    Spoiler:
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  14. #234

    Default Re: Chapter 853: Not Here!!!

    I think that luffy can hear the poneglyphs, but probably he can't understand them, they "talk" in their own language. For that reason he needs Robin, and Roger needed Oden. When Momonosuke was hearing the poneglyph, he said that he was hearing a voice, but no that he can understand it.

    Three eyed race probably can understand any language, so they don't need to learn the language.

    Zunisha and Sea Kings probably talk in the same language as everyone, but only a few can hear them.

  15. #235

    Default Re: Chapter 853: Not Here!!!

    Surprised people are taking Pudding at her word that she hasn't unlocked her 3 eyed ability.

  16. #236

    Default Re: Chapter 853: Not Here!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Long John Silvers Rayleigh View Post
    Pretty sure the manga confirmed kaido was after momo especially because he figured he knew something by being oden's son, chapter 818, 819 or 820. Momo was wamted for reasons beyond his heritage as a mere daiymo isnt important enough imo to warrant all the efforts to capture him instead of killing him by assassination
    Then why didn't he just kept Oden alive then?

  17. #237

    Default Re: Chapter 853: Not Here!!!

    He was too hungry

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Did nami control zeus chapters ago?

  18. #238
    The Die Has Been Cast Count Mario's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 853: Not Here!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by firelord111 View Post
    He was too hungry

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Did nami control zeus chapters ago?
    She unknowingly manipulated thunderclouds crated by Zeus and Prometheus. So to a degree, yes.

    Spoiler:








    And about you thanking me for my correction in the AP Awards Nominations, no problem.

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  19. #239
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    Default Re: Chapter 853: Not Here!!!



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  20. #240

    Default Re: Chapter 853: Not Here!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by KageKageKing View Post
    Then why didn't he just kept Oden alive then?
    Because he wouldnt talk IDK...kaido isnt that reasonable but it seems he's been targetting momo and his protectors for a very specific reason and its probable its related to the poneglyphs since F.A.W.K the kouzuki tribe is the only ones on wano who can make make the stones and thus might know something about the poneglyph

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    Chapter 437 Discussion after franky decides to join the Strawhats:
    So who think Usopp is inside that duffelbag?
    H x H Chimera Ant Arc / OP Manga Spoiler
    Spoiler:



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