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Thread: Chapter 848 - "Goodbye"

  1. #101
    Lost in Traslation Katzztar's Avatar
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    Default Re: One Piece Chapter 848 "Goodbye"

    Quote Originally Posted by Kdom View Post
    What do you think she told them then. They wouldn't make such a face he she just planned to leave

    oh and I noticed a drawing mistake for once. Tamago denden mushi should have the face of Smoothie and not his.
    Ah its confusing ... its a personalized den den mushi, one that wears accessories plus Tamago is talking to two people in a row on pg 11. Someone yells "Roger" then click and then it rings and Smoothie is on. Don't we usually see the face of them and if they wear accessories then they are already fitted out before the call? I need to do some research, I can't remember if the den den mushi of others show accessories or just facial expressions.
    Maybe right in the middle of battle he didn't have time to change hats and take the glasses off lol

    Just joking, Oda has done some drawing mistakes before in the weekly chapters but then fixes them before they are published in a volume.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gentleman_Bastard View Post
    Jeez what's with everyone being so death triggery lately? First it was all Pudding is evil and now it's all Pudding is going to die. Given the Lola flashback I think she'll either just tell BM she's not going to marry Sanji or she'll just leave. Given what Nami and Luffy know it makes sense they'd panic cause they know how BM will react but I think she learned her lesson from last time, she's not just going to let another daughter screw up a powerful alliance.
    They are going through withdrawals of being wrong about "Law will betray Luffy!"
    Ever since the Marineford War, I've noticed there is a ... dark and dreary for lack of better term... element to the fandom. Some look for the worst thing to happen and when it doesn't happen they move to a next 'dark conspiracy' to yell doom and gloom about.

    "Law only saved Luffy because he planted a bomb in his heart, he plans to blackmail Luffy later."
    "Zoro lost an arm during the timeskip!"
    "Law abandoned his crew to become a schichibukai!"
    "Law switched Luffy's heart in that operation. He will betray Luffy!"
    Even as recently as Zou we still heard some say "Law will betray Luffy...somehow"
    "Pedro is the traitor to the minks!"
    "No, Carrot is the traitor! the naďve act is all fake!"
    "Pudding is evil, after the marriage she'll show its all an act and make Sanji miserable."

    So makes sense some fans will jump to Pudding killing herself.

  2. #102

    Default Re: One Piece Chapter 848 "Goodbye"

    Quote Originally Posted by King Cannon View Post
    So you want Sanji to bet on plot armor?

    Never mind all the ridiculous circumstances and coincidences that Sanji is not aware of, but we know that will happen in order to allow them to escape. Sanji would literally need to be omniscient in order to even have a hint that a miracle would happen.
    No, I think it's reasonable for Sanji to be worried about Luffy now that he's been caught, and he can't help him in any way. But if Luffy were to have a fair fight against Big Mom, he would bet on him. Just like they trusted him with Crocodile, with Lucci, I mean, Luffy's crew mates have displayed blind faith in his ability to take down anybody since ever.

  3. #103

    Default Re: One Piece Chapter 848 "Goodbye"

    Quote Originally Posted by RobZilla View Post
    I can't see Luffy taking down his first Yonko one on one, and certainly not without the rest of his crew there to feature against all the big hitters in said Yonko's crew.

    Also, I think it's way too early for Big Mom to go down in general, since we've still to get the whole Caribou -> Kaido -> war for Fishman Island/Poseidon to still be covered.
    Even if she doesn't go down, she has to either be disabled or preoccupied. It's not like they can just expect to escape WCI and go take on Kaido without expecting BM to retaliate if they don't stop her.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Katzztar View Post
    They are going through withdrawals of being wrong about "Law will betray Luffy!"
    Ever since the Marineford War, I've noticed there is a ... dark and dreary for lack of better term... element to the fandom. Some look for the worst thing to happen and when it doesn't happen they move to a next 'dark conspiracy' to yell doom and gloom about.

    "Law only saved Luffy because he planted a bomb in his heart, he plans to blackmail Luffy later."
    "Zoro lost an arm during the timeskip!"
    "Law abandoned his crew to become a schichibukai!"
    "Law switched Luffy's heart in that operation. He will betray Luffy!"
    Even as recently as Zou we still heard some say "Law will betray Luffy...somehow"
    "Pedro is the traitor to the minks!"
    "No, Carrot is the traitor! the naďve act is all fake!"
    "Pudding is evil, after the marriage she'll show its all an act and make Sanji miserable."

    So makes sense some fans will jump to Pudding killing herself.
    Yeah I've noticed that too. Can't say i understand it though.

  4. #104

    Default Re: One Piece Chapter 848 "Goodbye"

    Quote Originally Posted by Gentleman_Bastard View Post
    That's the other ridiculous part of this arc that pisses me off. Having chopper and carrot in the Mirror world would have been the perfect time to use them to clear up some misunderstandings but instead all we see is them running around and then getting captured. I know I should trust in Oda and he probably has a plan, but it's just frustrating seeing this crap happen week-to-week.
    I think Chopper will be there to provide a way out for Brook, Luffy and Nami, plus a way to Sanji. That was more or less his plan to infiltrate the castle.

  5. #105

    Default Re: One Piece Chapter 848 "Goodbye"

    Quote Originally Posted by King Cannon View Post
    I think Chopper will be there to provide a way out for Brook, Luffy and Nami. That was more or less his plan to infiltrate the castle.
    Ah. Maybe. With Usopp having awakened haki in Dressrosa I was hoping that the same would start happening for the other SH's during WCI and Wano. It would have been really cool to see chopper awaken it and then punch through a mirror to escape.

  6. #106
    The Die Has Been Cast Count Mario's Avatar
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    Default Re: One Piece Chapter 848 "Goodbye"

    Quote Originally Posted by King Cannon View Post
    I like how Big Mom suddenly isn't corrupt anymore. Never mind the FI racketeering, the human collecting, the island destroying...

    And it's weird how Sanji and Brook condemn his actions when he was just following BM's orders. Even Tamago was fine with what Bege did to Pekoms in Zou. Plus, let's not forget that Pekoms, for all intents and purposes, was betraying Big Mom himself by letting the Straw Hats in Totto Land.
    Why do you keep insisting that supporters of Big Mom not being the final arc anyagonist and making some sort of truce means we condone her actions? Of course we don't. Neither does Luffy. All of that has to change. But it doesn't mean that it has to occur woth Big Mom getting physically defeated and losing all of her power like every other arc antagonist. Her traits of negotiation, having a selfless dream, caring for racial harmony (and I know you're going to bring up the Giants and the library creatures, but we don't know about the former's circunstances and the latter definitely won't stand), respecting the selfish wishes of others, etc. These traits are highlighted not because they justify what she's done wrong, but leave open room for her being convinced to stop her depraved actions and have potential to be redeemed.

    Your issue seems to be more about whether it's appropriate to forgive or tolerate Big Mom after she does change after getting defeated through non-physical means. And you can have that opinion. But please don't straw man what I and other users such as Greg are arguing for. Because saying that Big Mom and Luffy will be on positive terms at the end of the arc does not equate to being fine with letting her continue to pull these horrific stunts. She has the capability to learn her lesson, and it will most likely occur.

    So Pekoms was betraying Big Mom. That is not the issue here. What is is how Capone is literally trying to KILL his teammate who is acting compassionate to his race's saviors. Pekoms was convinced to go because of having little choice and being indebted to Sanji. He actually doubts that Luffy can legitinately beat Big Mom, as he's stated several times. He still has loyalty towards Big Mom regardless. And following orders justifies killing, especially to the perspectives of the heroes? Stop treating betrayal as if they are all equally corrupt or positive actions. Context and reasoning matters.

    Spoiler:
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  7. #107
    I do, bro! I do! Shadowgreed's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 848 - "Goodbye"

    Pudding is evil!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  8. #108
    Lost in Traslation Katzztar's Avatar
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    Default Re: One Piece Chapter 848 "Goodbye"

    Quote Originally Posted by Gentleman_Bastard View Post
    Ah. Maybe. With Usopp having awakened haki in Dressrosa I was hoping that the same would start happening for the other SH's during WCI and Wano. It would have been really cool to see chopper awaken it and then punch through a mirror to escape.
    Chopper? Franky and Robin are likely to get haki before Chopper does ... if he ever does.
    Frankly I don't want the entire crew to have it, as that makes it seem ... overused and not so special

  9. #109

    Default Re: One Piece Chapter 848 "Goodbye"

    Quote Originally Posted by Gentleman_Bastard View Post
    Even if she doesn't go down, she has to either be disabled or preoccupied. It's not like they can just expect to escape WCI and go take on Kaido without expecting BM to retaliate if they don't stop her.
    Or Pudding kills herself/runs away ala Lola, wedding gets ruined and the crew escapes?

    What's Big Mom's priority going to be then?

    Dealing with said ruined situation or going after Luffy?
    "Now! This is it! Now is the time to choose! Die and be free of pain or live and fight your sorrow! Now is the time to shape your stories! Your fate is in your hands!" - Auron


  10. #110

    Default Re: One Piece Chapter 848 "Goodbye"

    Quote Originally Posted by Gentleman_Bastard View Post
    That's the other ridiculous part of this arc that pisses me off. Having chopper and carrot in the Mirror world would have been the perfect time to use them to clear up some misunderstandings but instead all we see is them running around and then getting captured. I know I should trust in Oda and he probably has a plan, but it's just frustrating seeing this crap happen week-to-week.
    I doubt Chopper would clear anything up . He probably has no idea what's going on. Funny enough Luffy vs Sanji will probably be one of the things that the SH's never talk about and only a few of them know. :P
    Successful negro doesn't need a signature.

  11. #111

    Default Re: One Piece Chapter 848 "Goodbye"

    Quote Originally Posted by RobZilla View Post
    Also, I think it's way too early for Big Mom to go down in general, since we've still to get the whole Caribou -> Kaido -> war for Fishman Island/Poseidon to still be covered.
    It'd be on chapter 850+! how's that too soon for anything? is there anything more One Piece than Luffy coming and telling everybody (in the most casual way ever) that he kicked Big Mom's butt, while they all go crazy about it?

  12. #112

    Default Re: One Piece Chapter 848 "Goodbye"

    Quote Originally Posted by RobZilla View Post
    Or Pudding kills herself/runs away ala Lola, wedding gets ruined and the crew escapes?

    What's Big Mom's priority going to be then?

    Dealing with said ruined situation or going after Luffy?
    Considering that she would probably blame Luffy for causing said situation in the first place I would say the latter. I mean if she sent an army after Urogue for taking out a commander, what's she going to do to the guy that has been continually challenging her power and screwed up the second most important alliance she's ever made.

    Would Pudding leaving/dying really affect the wedding? I don't think Judge particularly cares who Sanji marries and I don't think BM does either. Sure Sanji might become even more miserable and heartbroken, but it's not like his situation changes much. Zeff is still under threat and BM may order him killed the moment Sanji leaves. Oh and let's not forget about his exploding bracelets.
    Last edited by Gentleman_Bastard; December 1st, 2016 at 09:19 AM. Reason: forget to add some words

  13. #113

    Default Re: Chapter 848 - "Goodbye"

    Luffy is strong. STRONG. And he progresses faster than anybody else. He can't ever be compared to Yonkos, or admirals, or anybody, they're all mediocre compared with him.

    Only Roger compares.

  14. #114

    Default Re: One Piece Chapter 848 "Goodbye"

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackLegEd View Post
    I doubt Chopper would clear anything up . He probably has no idea what's going on. Funny enough Luffy vs Sanji will probably be one of the things that the SH's never talk about and only a few of them know. :P
    That's the thing though. Sanji could continue being an asshole martyr and refuse to tell chopper what was actually going on and pull a whole " i hate you. I'm leaving the crew. go away" which, chopper being naive, would take seriously and it would break his heart. Or he could use it as a chance to tell chopper what's going on in the misguided hope that maybe it would make Luffy leave.

  15. #115

    Default Re: One Piece Chapter 848 "Goodbye"

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Mario View Post
    Why do you keep insisting that supporters of Big Mom not being the final arc anyagonist and making some sort of truce means we condone her actions? Of course we don't. Neither does Luffy. All of that has to change. But it doesn't mean that it has to occur woth Big Mom getting physically defeated and losing all of her power like every other arc antagonist. Her traits of negotiation, having a selfless dream, caring for racial harmony (and I know you're going to bring up the Giants and the library creatures, but we don't know about the former's circunstances and the latter definitely won't stand), respecting the selfish wishes of others, etc. These traits are highlighted not because they justify what she's done wrong, but leave open room for her being convinced to stop her depraved actions and have potential to be redeemed.

    Your issue seems to be more about whether it's appropriate to forgive or tolerate Big Mom after she does change after getting defeated through non-physical means. And you can have that opinion. But please don't straw man what I and other users such as Greg are arguing for. Because saying that Big Mom and Luffy will be on positive terms at the end of the arc does not equate to being fine with letting her continue to pull these horrific stunts. She has the capability to learn her lesson, and it will most likely occur.

    So Pekoms was betraying Big Mom. That is not the issue here. What is is how Capone is literally trying to KILL his teammate who is acting compassionate to his race's saviors. Pekoms was convinced to go because of having little choice and being indebted to Sanji. He actually doubts that Luffy can legitinately beat Big Mom, as he's stated several times. He still has loyalty towards Big Mom regardless. And following orders justifies killing, especially to the perspectives of the heroes? Stop treating betrayal as if they are all equally corrupt or positive actions. Context and reasoning matters.
    What has Capone done besides attempting to kill Pekoms... twice? An action condoned by the other members of the Big Mom Pirates, mind you. You just can't compare that to Big Mom actively racketeering and destroying entire kingdoms. That's really weak for a supposed major villain.

    Also, what is the basis for her changing her personality just like that? What would Luffy need to do for that to happen? If we're gonna go that route, then I could apply the same logic for Capone, especially with him showing more care to his family in a single scene than Big Mom has ever did in the entire arc. There's a reason Chiffon and Praline are switching sides and being more supportive of their new family than their mother.

    No offense to those who support Big Mom as an ally... it could happen in a far-off future with the right circumstances, but I just find ridiculous the notion that Big Mom is being built up as a victim in this arc, when the entire reason this plot is happening is because of her and she's by far the most oppressive element in it. She started this shit. If it weren't for her, Judge wouldn't go after Sanji, Capone wouldn't go after Sanji, Luffy wouldn't go after Sanji... and she's doing it just to acquire more power. Having Judge or Capone become the actual villains when everything they've been doing so far has been under the influence of Big Mom would feel like a big cop out, in my opinion.

    Oh, and let's not forget the kind of people that Luffy opposes the most and ends up fighting anyway. Those who restrict the freedom of his friends. Guess what Big Mom has been doing this entire arc to Sanji, Jinbe, Pudding... I'm actually fully expecting Pudding to be the catalyst to give Luffy resolve to put her at the top of his list.

    I do feel that she needs to pay, regardless of whether she changes in the end. She's responsible for most of the shit that's been happening. Sorry if this comes as too harsh.
    Last edited by King Cannon; December 1st, 2016 at 09:47 AM.

  16. #116

    Default Re: One Piece Chapter 848 "Goodbye"

    Quote Originally Posted by Megaman View Post
    Luffy clearly said last chapter that he's going to take her down someday when he brings his whole crew, and is only here today to get back Sanji. Luffy saying to come and fight him is just arrogant, cocky Luffy being arrogant and cocky. He's half dead in a cage, he isn't taking on a yonkou.
    Based on Viz translation it is not that clear :
    Also, Luffy's speech to Big Mom has some differences: "This is a stupid story, Big Mom! It was Lola who didn't get married, and it's you who failed to become King of the Pirates! Here I am, picking another fight with you! I'm not backing down just because you're one of the Four Emperors! I'm going to take Sanji back, and at the end of the day, we're gonna win!"

  17. #117

    Default Re: Chapter 848 - "Goodbye"

    Quote Originally Posted by Broccoli View Post
    Luffy is strong. STRONG. And he progresses faster than anybody else. He can't ever be compared to Yonkos, or admirals, or anybody, they're all mediocre compared with him.

    Only Roger compares.
    Right! I mean after less than two years, Rayleigh left cause he didn't have anything left to teach him about Haki. Its been said time and time again that Luffy is a dumbass about most things but he is a combat genius. Both Shanks and Rayleigh think that Luffy can become the PK and they've both been through the ringer before. They know how tough shit can get, but they still believe that Luffy can make it and yet you're telling me that Sanji can't be the same?

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by King Cannon View Post
    What has Capone done besides attempting to kill Pekoms... twice? An action condoned by the other members of the Big Mom Pirates, mind you. You just can't compare that to Big Mom actively racketeering and destroying entire kingdoms.

    Also, what is the basis for her changing her personality? If we're gonna go that route, then I could apply the same logic for Capone, especially with him showing more care to his family in a single scene than Big Mom has ever did in the entire arc. There's a reason Chiffon and Praline are switching sides and being supportive of their new family than their mother.

    No offense to those who support Big Mom as an ally... but I just find ridiculous the notion that Big Mom is being built up as a victim, when the entire reason this plot is happening is because of her. She started this shit. If it weren't for her, Judge wouldn't go after Sanji, Capone wouldn't go after Sanji, Luffy wouldn't go after Sanji...

    Oh, and let's not forget the kind of people that Luffy opposes the most and ends up fighting anyway. Those who restrict the freedom of his friends. Guess what Big Mom has been doing this entire arc to Sanji, Jinbe, Pudding... I'm actually fully expecting Pudding to be the catalyst to give Luffy resolve to put her at the top of his list.
    At the beginning of the arc with Germa and the promise that Lola said BM will help them if they show her the vivre card, I could have believed she would become an ally. After seeing her personality and actions to this point though, I cannot seriously believe anyone thinks she's going to somehow do a 180. I'll say it again but my theory still is that Capone is working for blackbeard and he is hiding a commander inside his fortress and they will use the wedding to try and assassinate BM. If Luffy or Sanji somehow saved her life in that kind of scenario, then I could see BM letting them go because of her whole honor thing. Other than that all evidence points to her being a stone cold bitch.

  18. #118

    Default Re: One Piece Chapter 848 "Goodbye"

    How many chapters will toothless Luffy last? Any bets?
    Quote Originally Posted by Gentleman_Bastard View Post
    That's the thing though. Sanji could continue being an asshole martyr and refuse to tell chopper what was actually going on and pull a whole " i hate you. I'm leaving the crew. go away" which, chopper being naive, would take seriously and it would break his heart. Or he could use it as a chance to tell chopper what's going on in the misguided hope that maybe it would make Luffy leave.
    All possible but they still would end up in the same spot.
    Successful negro doesn't need a signature.

  19. #119

    Default Re: Chapter 848 - "Goodbye"

    was Pedro fighting that wolf mink that he met when he arrived on Totland, the 1 that called him captain?


    If Pudding does decide to kill herself then I can see Sanji going berserk!

    Maybe Pudding has a fruit like Brooks which when she is dead...she becomes a living ghost that occupy other people's bodies...kinda similar to brook but it can be very different.
    One Piece ,\/,,

  20. #120
    I do it ! Sâuza's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 848 - "Goodbye"

    Pudding killing herself, although the most logical conclusion from that last page, just doesn't do it for me. Or at the very least will probably be resolved next time we get some luffy screen time.

    I mean couldn't Luffy or Nami just yell not to kill herself and alert her brother ? They wouldn't go as far as let someone suicide for the sake of returning Sanji.

    Idk this just seems off.


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