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Thread: Chapter 845 - "The Enraged Army"

  1. #281

    Default Re: Chapter 845 - "The Enraged Army"

    all this talk about pudding's eye reminded me that it could also be related to the third eye in hindu and buddhist mythologies,which is said to basically unlimit one's potential and bring enlightenment.it is also notable as a characteristic of Shiva and usually leads to death and destruction of any unfortunate to be in it's path.it's a pretty common device in yoga and meditation.also,many people believe it is just a mythological representation of the pineal gland.more details
    huh,i wonder how come i didn't think of that before
    that which cannot be stopped:inherited will,a man's dream,and the flow of time.as long as man continues to seek out the answer to freedom,these things shall never be stopped.-PK Gol D. Roger

  2. #282
    Warrior of Science Kaptayn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 845 - "The Enraged Army"

    Reading this chapter a second time, I find Sanji's words pretty suspicious.
    "I don't have any allies left" and "let's get married"...
    There's no way he is willing to let his friends to die out there (Nami included!). Maybe he has a plan? Maybe he's trying to trick Big Mom into believing he's really going to get married, that he has given up all hope?
    There's also the fact that he could "read through women's tears" thing that was brought up on Dressrosa. Did he see through Pudding's mind?


  3. #283

    Default Re: Chapter 845 - "The Enraged Army"

    The creepy talking food made me think of sausage party lol. Also I have a feeling Luffy is going to get captured then the bomb that was being sent to Big Mom is going to go off and cause enough confusion to allow him to get free.

  4. #284

    Default Re: Chapter 845 - "The Enraged Army"

    I had 2 stronger reactions while reading this chapter:

    1. Unease, after seeing Sanji, probably at the lowest point, with all that talking and moving food around him, which we know are actual portions of souls of the inhabitants. His almost indifferent reaction to food offering itself like that, which disrespects both human lives and food (which we know Sanji feels strong about), was another great showcase of how much he has given up.

    The situation he is in seems hopeless to Sanji, who explicitly said it this chapter. I feel like he was completely honest with Pudding, he even showed her his "true face" and hid nothing. That´s very human. People who feel hopeless can be very honest, because they are no longer scared of what others may think of them. And this is Sanji, someone who we´ve always seen as a strong, hero-like character, who kept up his manly man facade until now. This goes in line with the great analysis I read last chapter discussion about Sanji and his self-esteem from a female member.

    So, for me, the big question of the arc is, how will Sanji dig himself out of this nothingness.

    A big part of it will have to come from within him, but first he needs to start seeing glimpses of light that there is an actual chance that he can actually get out of this situation.

    Those will be the allies, hinted this chapter. This is an adventure and what true friendship can accomplish is one of its leitmotifs. He is not alone and they will come and slowly, he´ll start to believe again. That in turn will make him believe in himself, I´m sure it will be amazing to watch him get through this eventually.

    2. Determination. My second reaction to Luffy and Nami vs that army. I pretty much screamed "bring it on!", but I am sure it is nothing compared to Luffy´s determination.

    This is one of the glimpses of hope. I feel strongly about this one, especially after last week´s chapter, which I thought was absolutely brilliantly executed. One of Luffy´s most impactful actions, without using his fists.

    The Future Pirate King said he will wait for him at that spot and will not eat anything until Sanji comes back and feeds him.

    And that´s exactly what he is going to do. No matter the odds, he will not get beaten by these underlings of another pirate or get imprisoned here.

    Remember, Luffy has just taken himself out of a direct disruption of the marriage ceremony in one of his best moments in the series, because he knows this is the best course of action he can take. He is a heart-reading genius.

    I believe that by actually pulling off exactly what he said, he will play a very important role in bringing Sanji back. The Strawhat Pirates have managed miracles in the past. Even somebody like Law said they were miracle-makers. Actually infiltrating and standing in the middle of an island ruled by a Yonkou. That´s outrageous. We´ve been told nobody has managed to do that until now. Nobody gets to see the face of Big Mom. Well, she might as well show her face sooner than later or her sadistic kingdom is done for. Taking life years of citizens to put them into inanimate objects. Mr. Oda brings the heavy weight themes of what many humans value the most. On Dressrosa, it was being recognized, remembered, actually existing in the world of your family, friends. What Sugar did was horrendous. Imagine everyone around you would forget you ever existed.

    Now there´s not much else that humans value more than their lives, life-spans, time. Having to give that away to such a psycho just to live there is unimaginable. Initially, I thought we could get away with some sort of treaty with Big Mom. But all things considered, she needs to go down if there´s no cure to her madness.

    ________

    Anyway, I think Luffy and Nami will not go down against this Enraged Army. Big Mom has severely underestimated the Strawhats just like the males in the past. I am a bit disappointed. I thought she was also cunning and tactical with all the blackmailing and stuff. For all the neat "intel" she is able to gather beforehand, not knowing what was going on for the whole night in the forest with Cracker was super negligent from them. It seems like they don´t even know that Nami has her vivre card.

    If I saw correctly, a large chunk of that army are "souldiers", not to mention Zeus and Prometheus the feared homies are there, clashing with a weather "mage" who is holding a vivre card. They are her slaves now.

    The mistakes pile up. And it makes sense, because directly clashing with her full-force, Whitebeard all-out war-style with an incomplete crew and ally-less, would most likely end as SH loss.

    By the way, an army has left a fort, marching into the open field...somebody is bound to take the castle.

    And let´s not forget these wildcards are imminent:
    - Jinbei and Pekoms, each one is bound to be a key player later
    - Brook and Pedro, who will copy the glyph, creating another disastrous scenario for the opposition
    - Chopper and Carrot, who can appear everywhere once they win
    - Pudding ("first" ally) and later most likely Reiju again
    - and of course Bege, a one man army, who has his own agenda

    The situation is one of the worst they have ever been in, so far in the story. But Oda does have chess pieces in place for another miracle.

    I am thoroughly enjoying this ride.

  5. #285

    Default Re: Chapter 845 - "The Enraged Army"

    ^^^^

    Brilliant post

  6. #286

    Default Re: Chapter 845 - "The Enraged Army"

    Quote Originally Posted by Nubtro View Post
    I had 2 stronger reactions while reading this chapter:
    That was really an excellent summary. My reactions were practically the same as yours both for Sanji and for Luffy. I too agree that Big Mom has to go down this arc, even though being the chances apparently very slim i tend to not say it. But as you said the Straw Hats managed to pull all sorts of miracles, and there are many potential allies who can substitute the missing crew members. The greatest menace to Big Mom in my opinion is Capone, that confident smile he showed in chapter 834 as Pekoms was falling suggest me that whatever scheme he's cooking it must be some pretty BIG deal, since he seems to be a bit more cool headed than the other supernova and thus he should know well what Big Mom is capable of.

  7. #287
    The Die Has Been Cast Count Mario's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 845 - "The Enraged Army"

    Quote Originally Posted by Nubtro View Post
    Now there´s not much else that humans value more than their lives, life-spans, time. Having to give that away to such a psycho just to live there is unimaginable. Initially, I thought we could get away with some sort of treaty with Big Mom. But all things considered, she needs to go down if there´s no cure to her madness.
    I somewhat agree with Woodstock and Dr. Faust. Great post. I definitely support how Luffy should stay in that promised spot and somehow overcome all of these forces. Let's not forget that Nami's there with both weather powers and Lola's Vivre Card with Big Mom's soul-ju to help turn the tides by possibly manipulating Zeus and Prometheus. Luffy's promise to wait for Sanji in that spot without eating anything reminds me of how stories about Roger told how he would annihilate entire fleets out of vengeance if they insulted/hurt any of his crewmates. It would be very quite astounding to see Luffy gain a feat like that in relation to one of his beloved crewmates. And I can't agree more on the Straw Hats sparking another miracle that can overturn Sanji's despair in this situation. He needs to believe in his friends, because you like you said, that is one of the cornerstone themes of One Piece. Giving into hopelessness is completely understandable for Sanji's mindset and situation, but it still does not justify him completely giving up and bending to the will of his family without even trying to get help. Giving up without any attempt to succeed is never the answer.


    However, there's a few factors in all of this that aren't mentioned in your post that I would like to bring to attention. I think you're weighing in a LITTLE too much on the souls being taken from citizens and placed into Homies to being absolutely irredeemable. Don't get me wrong, it's creepy and a bit messed up. But the Totland citizens are giving away pieces of their lifespans (and somewhat small pieces at that. One year of their life in exchange for every six they live there. That's quite the bargain actually) voluntarily with a choice of being able to leave whenever they want. It's not like Doflamingo transforming those who spoke out against his rule into toys that would get forgotten by their loved ones and society, and then dumped into a garbage chute if they tried to talk. Or Arlong threatening the Cocoyashi Village citizens that if even a single citizen fails to pay the total sum of their monthly tribute quota, then the island suffers genocide from the Arlong Pirates.


    Meanwhile, Big Mom's deal in this case, especially due to being a freaking Yonko, is actually pretty lenient. She's built a kingdom that's a racial utopia without discrimination. And Big Mom is actually using the souls she collects to put them into Homies, which helps with protection, information networking (I'm assuming that's how she knew the Straw Hats arrived so quickly), and resources. If she was, say, using them for a selfish purpose like enlarging her own lifespan, I would agree with you. But they're being used for a selfless purpose that benefits everyone, and the food Homies take absolute delight in being eaten. There are probably some who would argue that's still "murder", but that's what their life purpose and satisfaction unquestionably come from. It's unsettling when first seen, but that's just what they like. To make a comparison, in Rick and Morty, there are creatures called Mr. Meeseeks that get summoned to complete tasks for other people. And when those tasks are done, they disappear from existence (basically committing suicide). But they actually crave "death" as their greatest feeling of satisfaction akin to ecstasy, and become insane the longer that they live without completing a task. If these creatures earn honest fulfillment from that, then you can't really judge. Humans value life, most definitely. But it should be their choice to determine how they apply it when it doesn't influence others. And these citizens are living happily without regret in Totland and find that donating bits of their lives isn't a big deal at all. And the life they give only goes towards promoting more life. Comparing Sugar forcing people's lives to be forgotten just doesn't fit as an accurate comparison at all. And this is the New World, where everybody runs into a Yonko territory whether they can only either submit or fight. This type of protection has legitimate merits and works.


    ...In Totland, that is. Now, when it comes to having allied territories like Fishman Island destroyed if they can't deliver on their monthly candy, yeah, that's where it's totally justified for Big Mom to get a rude awakening from someone like Luffy. As well as forcing her children into political marriages and kicking her ex-husbands to the curb as tools to expand power. But strangely, VERY strangely, Big Mom is a lot more morally ambiguous than most One Piece villains are. Unlike somebody as belligerent and uncompromising as Kaido, Big Mom is open to negotiation and dealings. She's willing to let the Totland citizens live freely (presumably) without punishment. While she had her sights set on destroying Fishman Island, she was actually convinced by Luffy to switch to waging war on his crew. As we've seen from Zou, Jack will not negotiate in the slightest and will find any excuse to unleash violence. When Jimbei asked to leave the crew, Big Mom didn't even want to question his reasons and was willing to allow it for an "equal exchange". Kaido would have bashed his head in like he did to one of his minions in a drunken fit, and Jack would have tortured him like whenever any of his minions fail regardless of the reason.


    You could argue that despite the comparisons I've made, it doesn't change that choosing between Kaido and Big Mom is still the lesser of two evils. And I would not disagree with that at all actually. I'm not trying to make Big Mom out to be a saint or that Luffy and Sanji should become best friends with her. Her crimes should still be criticized and solved in some fashion. And she should go down soon, either at the end of this arc or after. I just disagree with the specific points you're concentrating on in judging her character. And just calling her a psycho doesn't give due acknowledgment to the traits I mentioned above as well as peculiarly positive ones like her dream of sitting and eating with a giant-sized version of her family she can look at eye-to-eye. Or why Lola claimed that the Straw Hats could rely on her mother to protect them. And keep in mind that Lola somehow managed to run away to be able to choose her own husband, AND has a Vivre Card when they are explicitly said to be banned from being handed out to Big Mom's children. Lola should have just as much or more reason to detest Linlin similar to the likes of her sister Pudding, and yet she actually praises her. So there's definitely more to Big Mom than we're aware of or at least not properly paying attention to, which is probably why we'll get some sort of Totland/Charlotte Family flashback later during this arc to shed light on all of the mystery. In fact, literally during the latest chapter, we see Big Mom telling her kids to get along and not fight. I mean, yeah, her daughter on that page is a total sociopath lol, but she actually seems to care for their wellbeing and Yet supposedly she uses a bunch of them for political marriages. But I know what people will say, "Oh, she killed her own son, Moscato!". But nobody ever mentions how Big Mom was in a deranged state from illness and, while talking to Jimbei, seemingly doesn't remember anything that just happened. And her children in the next chapter seem awfully impetuous towards removing any trace of the body as quickly as possible without remorse. Am I the only one who finds that REALLY freaking strange?

    Spoiler:






    Whenever Oda's written any of the previous villains, he REALLY hammers it home how they're irredeemable monsters with no potential for sympathy whatsoever. Even when we got to see Doflamingo and Arlong's flashbacks to see how their upbringing influenced their futures, but do not justify their immoral mindsets and actions in the slightest (if anything, their flashbacks made us hate them more lol). In fact, try to think of even a single objectively positive/altruistic trait that Oda may have written about the likes of Alvida, Morgan, Buggy, Kuro, Krieg, Arlong, Mr. 3, Wapol, Crocodile, Bellamy, Enel, Foxy, Spandam/Lucci, Moria, the Celestial Dragons, Hody, Caesar, and Doflamingo while in their respective antagonist arc roles, because there are literally none present. They are all villains Oda makes you hate all of the time, and is really good at it at that as a storyteller. That's why I find it so weird why Big Mom is such a morally mixed bag compared to them. Especially when the Vinsmokes (minus Reiju) and arguably Bege (although he cares about his kid) in comparison during this very same arc are pure scum that are definitely going down.


    That's why I actually believe that some sort of "treaty" like what you were initially expecting for the end of this arc is still possible in my eyes. And the three things that latch me onto that thought more than anything is how unrealistic I find it for half the crew to get away with beating Big Mom with convenient power match-ups despite Kaido being built up to require a huge alliance in the next arc or two (as well as just being hyped up more than Big Mom since Thriller Bark), forces like Bege and possible both Germa 66 and Caesar being primed to sabotage/betray her at some point (now would be a good opportunity since most of her forces were sent to deal with Luffy), and her illness. In fact, I underlined that "if there's no cure to her madness" line in your message because of how ironic that sounded. Oda did not introduce that illness for no reason. And I also don't think it's a coincidence that the DOCTOR of the Straw Hat Pirates is around for this arc as well. If Nami is intended to interact with Big Mom's weather powers and Brook with her soul powers, then it stands to reason that Chopper's specific role has been thought out just as much. If Chopper will most likely diagnose and treat her illness (although if it's strictly a mental illness, then it might be out of Chopper's "doctoring" skill set to cure her. But I would love for Oda to prove me wrong) in some form or fashion, then why would he have this happen for somebody who is supposedly going to be a main irredeemable antagonist? I say that's probably because despite how the situation seems, she is NOT supposed to fit that role. She is supposed to be a red herring for the Vinsmokes and Firetank Pirates being the main arc antagonists that need to go down. Luffy being so weakened with these constant fights and beatings can actually make them powerful opponents (and they could always "cheat" with weapons and cunning means). Which is why at least the latter is planning some sort of coup while Pekoms is around warning him to not underestimate Big Mom. But we seem to agree on the point of somebody trying to take over the castle now that most of her forces are gone now. And being both a Straw Hat ally and probably still loyal to Big Mom, so he could vouch for them if he can contribute to this "treaty".


    Luffy's ability to make allies is uncanny. Mihawk acknowledged this gift as Marineford as his most deadly asset. It happens all the time, especially with the alliances made in Dressrosa and Zou. Not to mention being able to temporarily team up and gain the honest support of the likes of villains like Crocodile in Impel Down and Marineford. Big Mom, despite being such a big shot Pirate Emperor, can still fit into this (mainly a dynamic similar to the latter situation). Again, I am not saying that Luffy should look past all of the messed up BS she's been doing. But she does have ethical merits as an individual/antagonist that don't deserve her being categorized as just a "psycho", that's what Kaido's been built-up to be as the first big Yonko victory the Straw Hats make. A coup can knock Big Mom down a peg, and all of the forces that the Straw Hats are gaining this arc (Jimbei, the Sun Pirates, the Homies, maybe the Mink Pirate remnants from Pedro's crew, various rebellious Charlotte children like Pudding and Praline) along with Nami and Brook's weather/soul powers can give them leverage against Big Mom despite obviously still not having enough strength to win in an all-out war. Leverage that can make them negotiate through pure gratefulness or at least some sort of game like the one Jimbei played to leave (and Luffy would definitely be prideful enough to accept the offer to leave with Sanji and Jimbei, as well as getting Big Mom to reform from her corrupt behavior. And I bet a faction like the Marines will come by after this arc or at the end of it to take down Big Mom now that her forces are weakened (Germa 66 and the Marines do have history with the Sora comic story that is bound to get more elaboration, and Germa 66' invitation to the Reverie is a relevant plot point). Regardless, I stand by my notion of Big Mom not falling by Luffy's hand. Especially since Oda will want to keep him as an underdog against Kaido like every other arc. Taking down a Yonko this early disrupts that intended pattern, even with the help of the coup.


    Those are just my thoughts though. I still mainly agree with a bunch of the points you made about this arc. I just disagree on where you're focusing on in terms of the themes that Oda likes to focus on. While creating life is certainly a theme (with Big Mom collecting souls to make the Homies and Germa 66' army being made from clones), another theme that is probably even bigger in this arc and Sanji's role is FAMILY. From not being discriminated against for being born differently, to blood not defining who your family is, having compassion and trust in your family not being a weakness (Bege is going to be such a hypocrite when his kid gets taken hostage or something after telling Pekoms that his emotional ties were flaws), and how you should allow your children to have the freedom to choose their path in life than using them as mean for the parent's ends. The Vinsmokes, Charlottes, Capones, Straw Hats, and the various races in Totland all feed into this. And while Big Mom certainly needs to take a parenting class or two, the Vinsmokes need to be taken out like the trash they are. And I'm willing to bet that Big Mom somehow cares for her family enough to actually not approve of Judge's parenting if she saw Sanji without his mask off, or even finding out that Caesar tried to create gigantification by experimenting on children. So all in all, I'm going to trust Lola's confidence in her mother for whatever reasons those may be. And I can see Big Mom supporting Luffy to beat Kaido in Wano when all the tension dies down since she has everything to gain from that.


    But I'm enjoying this ride too. It seems like this will definitely become one of my favorite arcs out of the whole series if Oda keeps playing his cards right with this suspense. I love how we're not completely sure of how this arc will transpire.
    Last edited by Count Mario; November 5th, 2016 at 10:24 PM.

    Spoiler:
    "Life's not about finding out which card is yours, but finding out which cards you're not."

  8. #288

    Default Re: Chapter 845 - "The Enraged Army"

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Mario View Post
    this will definitely become one of my favorite arcs out of the whole series if Oda keeps playing his cards right with this suspense. I love how we're not completely sure of how this arc will transpire.
    Great post. I'm actually thinking along the same lines as you.



    Year of Sanji, let's go!

  9. #289
    Discovered Stowaway HacheBe's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 845 - "The Enraged Army"

    I know how it looks but I have been and still and with Mario here. BM is not gonna go down this arc. Luffy or Sanji or someone is gonna do something or say something to convince her to let them go. Idk how or who but its gonna happen..... probably
    Last edited by HacheBe; November 6th, 2016 at 09:04 AM.

  10. #290
    Flagon Snaggin' Dragon Kaido King of the Beasts's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 845 - "The Enraged Army"

    Quote Originally Posted by Nubtro View Post
    stuff
    Nicely written and engrossing despite my normal aversion to long posts. Luffy's invasion has certainly come at a busy time for Big Mom. She's planning a wedding, and though I've never done that, I'm almost certain about how difficult that is, plus ensure relations with the groom's family are good.

    Luffy's only the second person to actually make an impact in Big Mom's territory in recent history. And due to wedding preparations Big Mom can't send another Sweet Commander like she did last time. But sending an army populated by multiple powerful warriors who are recognized by Germa Kingdom princes is definitely not underestimation, and the threat against Luffy is real due to him being driven to his limits by Cracker and Sanji. However, the fact that Big Mom can't be around to personally keep tabs on the invaders is very much a real problem for her. Brulee gave a pretty big rant in 837 (right before getting struck by lightning) about how Big Mom herself is untouchable because her subordinates are so powerful and organized they can handle pretty much any problem. So it's intriguing how Big Mom's business might interfere with her crew truly working to bring Luffy down, and how Luffy will subvert Brulee's jeering.

    Though I do agree with CM that Big Mom will not be defeated, which is a view I've had since the beginning of this arc and nothing really is there to change my mind so far. I love this arc's unpredicable structure - I could pretty easily guess the broad strokes of what the future would hold for Dressrosa, but there are so many possibilities and not a single answer standing out that is clearly the best course of action to take.


    Spoiler:

  11. #291
    I do, bro! I do! Shadowgreed's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 845 - "The Enraged Army"

    A Yonkou will not be taken down without the whole main crew or the Grand Fleet involved, this is not a Shishibukai.


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  12. #292

    Default Re: Chapter 845 - "The Enraged Army"

    My focus was on Luffy and Sanji, I haven´t really put much thought into dealing with BM.

    I respect the points that have been made against BM "going down" and I agree with most of them. As I said, I absolutely did not expect BM being defeated by force, if at all. I jokingly predicted something ridiculous like an eating contest. My train of thought was along the lines of Lola & Nami friendship -> vivre card -> some sort of peaceful resolution.

    So, I still think the likelihood of a BM beating is very slim, especially considering the author has build the future Kaidou encounter as an all-out conflict requiring weeks of planning and ally gathering. I am glad I mentioned the portion regarding curing "her madness", which for me encompasses all the evil things she is doing.

    But, the story has come to a point where bad stuff is slowly piling up for both (all) sides and I am wondering how all these situations can be dealt with in a somewhat peaceful way:

    1. Taking the life force from Totlanders, only to put it into inanimate objects to create her "slave toys".

    Her dream may seem admirable (if we´re talking racial equality, everyone seen as a family member), but the means are not. If she´s so strong and capable, she should be able to fulfill her fantasy without killing people, among other stuff. She is an ego-maniac with enough to force her will onto others, if they don´t play along, and she has been doing exactly that. As far as caring rulers go, she doesn´t reach the heels of King Riku in my book (who had his own flaws, but his love for the country and its citizens was pure).

    Totland is far from ideal, in my opinion it´s just an absolute monarchy where the crazy ruler taxes life spans to build pretty stuff for herself. Again, she should give parts of her own soul away. But why would she? Power abuse.

    You might argue that Germa´s way of disrespecting human lives by simply creating "new disposable pawns" is more evil and that´s true, but that´s not an excuse for what BM is doing. Even if the citizens didn´t make the pact, who´s to say she wouldn´t take it by force (threat of force) like she does with pretty much everything?

    Anyway, if nothing else, the BM-Germa evil alliance should be prevented.

    2. Destroying countries because they do not deliver insane amounts of food on time. Pacta sunt servanda, but not like this. Power abuse again with innocent casualties.
    3. The shame of having her super tightly controlled and guarded territory breached by some "rookie" with just a few of his friends, which she was aware of for quite some time now.
    4. One of her 4 top most valued personell in her line of command and her son, being trashed (if you look at it from their position and how they found him, he came flying from the forest).
    5. The provocative act of a "rookie" standing in the middle of her headquarters (island) and her inability to get rid of him. Assuming/rooting Luffy and friend(s) pull this off.
    6. Her own powers being used against her is quite shameful. Devil fruits have weaks, in this case her vivre card (physical manifestation of BM´s own soul/life force) seems to be hers.
    7. Her precious road glyph being "stolen" from under her nose.
    8. No power boost from Germa´s technology if the forced marriage plans fail.

    Basically, if you imagine you are a bigshot who can do everything you like and have been doing that for many years, these actions disrupting your plans or outright beating up your family members, would surely make you furious.

    So, it´s not just her selfish acts and and her tantrums which directly or indirectly hurt others, or take away something that a person in a well-functioning society should not be required to give away. It´s also the fact that she has a big ego, who I think is currently being humiliated by a super small group of pirates, which she may have underestimated. Let´s turn this around. Imagine some pirate takes out a SH and then comes to the Sunny, cements his feet in the middle of it, proclaiming he won´t leave until he gets his own way, which goes against Luffy´s plans (err...I mean his dream, as he does not make plans), would Luffy just let him be?

    It would actually surprise me if she didn´t hold a grudge against them. So for me the question is if such a big ego can settle for much less than what they are used to get (their own way or bust). She kind of did that with the trasure and Fishman Island, but the current situation is far more serious.

    So yeah, I won´t be angry or anything if this ends in a truce (by that I mean anything but a KOed BM) because SHs help her with a Bege betrayal and/or her killing tantrums or something else. But for that to happen, she needs to respect the Strawhats first. So far, they are only making her angrier and I wonder how she will feel if that alliance with Germa 66 does not happen.

    There´s a lot at stake for everyone involved with many situations to resolve. I love it.

  13. #293

    Default Re: Chapter 845 - "The Enraged Army"

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowgreed View Post
    A Yonkou will not be taken down without the whole main crew or the Grand Fleet involved, this is not a Shishibukai.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I think the story here will be how the underlings were handled by Luffy alone.
    IF YOU DIE, I'LL KILL YOU....

  14. #294

    Default Re: Chapter 845 - "The Enraged Army"

    I think Sanji's message to the crew when he left Zou was a lie! he knew he'd wouldn't be able to come back again and didn't want the crew to come save him and wage a war against yet another Yonko and endanger Zeff..so he left that reassuring message hoping it'd stop Luffy from coming after him. For at least not this soon.

  15. #295

    Default Re: Chapter 845 - "The Enraged Army"

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaizoku_Ou View Post
    I think Sanji's message to the crew when he left Zou was a lie! he knew he'd wouldn't be able to come back again and didn't want the crew to come save him and wage a war against yet another Yonko and endanger Zeff..so he left that reassuring message hoping it'd stop Luffy from coming after him. For at least not this soon.

    He wasn't aware of the Zeff issue when he was still in Zou but he it was stupid of him to leave. He should have waited for Luffy and the rest especially since they were aware Mingo has been defeated.
    IF YOU DIE, I'LL KILL YOU....

  16. #296

    Default Re: Chapter 845 - "The Enraged Army"

    Quote Originally Posted by Sereques View Post
    He wasn't aware of the Zeff issue when he was still in Zou but he it was stupid of him to leave. He should have waited for Luffy and the rest especially since they were aware Mingo has been defeated.
    He knew that's why he left with them. Remember when Vito whispered in his ear?

  17. #297
    Flagon Snaggin' Dragon Kaido King of the Beasts's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 845 - "The Enraged Army"

    Regardless of whether or not Zeff was the factor in that, there was a factor in Sanji agreeing to leave Zou that was a result of the secret Vito whispered in his ear.


    Spoiler:

  18. #298
    Ship Surfer The Tenth Strawhat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Chapter 845 - "The Enraged Army"

    Quote Originally Posted by Nubtro View Post
    godly post
    Quote Originally Posted by Count Mario View Post
    Another godly post
    You both bring up great points. Although I never payed attention to the fact BM's children dispose the bodies of the people she kills during her death cravings until Count Mario pointed it out. Do they hide the victims so she doesn't remember who got iced by her? How would BM react if she found out?
    The face of a Straw Hat.

  19. #299

    Default Re: Chapter 845 - "The Enraged Army"

    Quote Originally Posted by Nubtro View Post
    Now there´s not much else that humans value more than their lives, life-spans, time. Having to give that away to such a psycho just to live there is unimaginable. Initially, I thought we could get away with some sort of treaty with Big Mom. But all things considered, she needs to go down if there´s no cure to her madness.
    The population seems to willingly and happily give up their lives. They do have a choice in the mater and in return they are offered protection within the new world and allowed to live in a wonderland with a lot of racial harmony. Big Mom collects 1 month of lifespan from the population every 6 months. For the average lifespan of 100 years for humans, 150 for dwarves that is doable. If you lived there for 50 years you'd lose about 8 years of your life which I think most everyone there thinks is pretty fare.

    Anyway, I think Luffy and Nami will not go down against this Enraged Army. Big Mom has severely underestimated the Strawhats just like the males in the past. I am a bit disappointed. I thought she was also cunning and tactical with all the blackmailing and stuff. For all the neat "intel" she is able to gather beforehand, not knowing what was going on for the whole night in the forest with Cracker was super negligent from them. It seems like they don´t even know that Nami has her vivre card.
    Big Mom sent an entire army after the Straw Hats as well as two Homies that can manipulate the whether. How is that underestimating them? How is Big Mom supposed to account for a single Vivre card that was given to Nami way over in Paradise from a daughter who by all accounts of King Baum shouldn't have had one in the first place? Nami had complete control over the leader of the Homies, so of course no intel got out once the battle with Cracker began.

    And yeah sure Nami uses the weather as well but I doubt anyone knows the extent of her abilities, especially not now that Usopp had only just finished her new weapon. Nami can literally guide lightning and make it change directions if it misses its target. I very much doubt Zeus and Prometheus can do that but you can't hold that against Big Mom, who could account for that? Linlin probably knows Nami manipulates the weather as a weapon but I'm pretty sure 9 out of 10 people would put their money on the actual pieces of nature to win that fight.
    Folks who read One Piece... Just better people. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

  20. #300

    Default Re: Chapter 845 - "The Enraged Army"

    Raleigh was able to get that band off Camie's neck, shouldn't Luffy have learnt how to do that now? Sanji is plain pathetic, his plan was to leave home was to abandon the dream that had made him who he is. The way these strawhats give up their ambition so easy makes me wonder if they are worthy of being among the King's of the sea. I wonder who might be taking us on another of this tired played out journeys? Surely not Zoro. This new world has seriously been demeaning for the Sanji character. It's a pity. We're now set up for another deux X machina device in this one piece plot. I imagine it will come from Pudding. That's the only way out of the present situation. The thing is, this literary device has been used several times in this Manga and it surely does get tiring. Luffy's impetuous nature might be to blame but it's time these egg heads began to think and plan properly when there is so much to lose. Luffy should be able to think more about the impact of his actions on his crew members and others. Whereas this should be nail biting cliff hanger, it has created room for some head scratching.

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