View Poll Results: Are Pudding and the Three-Eyed-Girl the same person?

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  • Yes - That fringe is far too suspicious

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  • No - They're optically inequivalent twins

    43 15.64%
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Thread: Official Totland Thread

  1. #401

    Default Re: Official Totland Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Mario View Post
    I would have actually appreciated it if we knew some of the feats that the Supernovas accomplished. But we understandably couldn't get that over the course of the story because it was an editorial decision to have all of the eleven in Sabaody (although I'm sure that at least Kid and Law would have shown up regardless). You're equating the Yonko that are such major figures in the story lore and overall power structure akin to past antagonists, which I do not agree with in the slightest. Oda has had arcs of special cases where the main antagonists were not taken down by Luffy (Shells Town, Loguetown, Sabaody Archipelago, Amazon Lily, Impel Down, and Marineford). So he doesn't always defeat the other enemies.

    It won't make her look weak. But that does mean that she does not deserve more respect from the narrative. And yes, Crocodile does look a bit weak in comparison, especially when you take into account Luffy's power ups in Gear Second and Third. But I don't blame Oda for it because he didn't plan that far ahead with the power structure of One Piece and even fully figuring out the functions of Haki. The Yonko do not and should not have that excuse after all of this time and build-up.
    Pre ts no, he doesn't always defeat the other enemies, and that leads to ace that he can't save and dies, now he must be able to defeat any enemy if he needs to, reason he had the 2 years away from his crew. He didn't defeat the villain in Amazon because she was the key for luffy to get in impel down, sabaody was used to separate the crew for 2 years because they are not ready for NW. Marineford, Sabaody also had enemies that are too strong, reason why he had 2 years so he can train to face enemies like that and not run anymore, as he told fujitora in dressrosa.
    Also note that point made in zou about robin, that many enemies will try to get her now, since she is the only that can read the poneglyphs.

    Even now he won't defeat all yonkous, since the yonkou wb was defeated by bb/wg, I also expect shanks to get defeated by BB, so he will only get kaidou and bm now and much later bb.

    Besides, compared to pre ts, there is no more time skips, this is the PK luffy, he will improve some in future islands on the way, but that's about it.

  2. #402
    The Die Has Been Cast Count Mario's Avatar
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    Default Re: Official Totland Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by uniaka ikuzakas View Post
    Pre ts no, he doesn't always defeat the other enemies, and that leads to ace that he can't save and dies, now he must be able to defeat any enemy if he needs to, reason he had the 2 years away from his crew. He didn't defeat the villain in Amazon because she was the key for luffy to get in impel down, sabaody was used to separate the crew for 2 years because they are not ready for NW. Marineford, Sabaody also had enemies that are too strong, reason why he had 2 years so he can train to face enemies like that and not run anymore, as he told fujitora in dressrosa.
    Also note that point made in zou about robin, that many enemies will try to get her now, since she is the only that can read the poneglyphs.

    Even now he won't defeat all yonkous, since the yonkou wb was defeated by bb/wg, I also expect shanks to get defeated by BB, so he will only get kaidou and bm now and much later bb.
    Pre-timeskip, no, Luffy's struggles pre-timeskip were about not being able to even compete with the top dogs. His training during the time skip only allows him to barely squeeze into the overall weight class. Training was not a surefire ticket for defeating every foe he comes across and it shouldn't be. That's seriously boring and repetitive. Luffy told Fujitora that he's not going to run away from the likes of admirals and Yonko anymore, and he should stick by that. But not turning down a challenge does not equate to the narrative bending to his whim of defeating them whenever they're present despite the nonsensical circumstances and needs of proper plot progression. And speaking of Hancock, there's plenty of evidence supporting that Big Mom could become an ally that will let Luffy go and bet on/support him to defeat Kaido as the main built-up threat of the current saga. So I don't recommend acting as if you definitely know how the arc will proceed, because as several people (and including myself) have noted, this is the first arc in a while where we are not completely sure what's going to happen from the unique story structure and factors at play. That is very entertaining and we should consider every possibility. As well as naturally being more inclined to support the ones that are more likely to happen and benefit the storytelling quality with character/plot consistency. I would argue that Big Mom not getting defeated by Luffy in a proper fight where she loses all of her power/status checks those two boxes rather nicely.

    And Robin's in Wano Country. Where Kaido is. I don't mean to sound like a jerk, it's just legitimately funny how you played yourself like a fiddle. XD But even disregarding that, so what? He has more enemies on his tail. It's not like we didn't already expect that to happen. Quantity does not change the quality in how Luffy may defeat his foes and if he even will for some of them.

    That's three Yonko that Luffy gets to hog to himself out of everybody else for a beatdown in the One Piece world. I'm personally not the biggest fan of that. I would prefer for their roles in the story to be more diverse like the Shichibukai in how Luffy only beat three and teamed up with five (Law, Hancock, Buggy (before he got the title), Jimbei, Crocodile (although he was no longer one of them). Keep in mind that I am not saying that Luffy should specifically team-up with a Yonko, I'm talking generally about how Oda doesn't have a whole faction of possible antagonists with intimidating reputations all get taken down by the protagonist.

    All four Yonko should get taken down by the end of the story, we all agree on that. But Whitebeard's death is irrelevant since the Yonko is still intact without him. And Blackbeard is a spiritual successor to him by stealing both his fruit and crew division structure, so Luffy is still figuratively fighting an even stronger Whitebeard when he finally defeats Teach. And actually, I don't what I was thinking when I said that Big Mom getting defeated this arc wouldn't make her weak. It totally does lol. A Yonko could totally be stronger than another one. But it should be by more than a small margin. Yet look at how Kaido gets to have the whole crew, Jimbei, Marco and the Whitebeard Remnants, Nekomamushi and Inurashi, the Zou Minks, (inevitably) the Samurai, Law and the Heart Pirates, Kid, maybe Hawkins, probably Drake (he's most likely a Marine double agents), and maybe even the Grand Fleet against him. And yet Big Mom picks up the scraps of getting (the weaker) half of the crew, Jimbei, random Minks, potentially the Homies, some rebellious children, and a ragtag army of the creatures in Big Mom's book. And a dash of backstabbing from Capone as well as the Fishman Island bomb. I'm not buying that unbalanced ratio of relevantly powerful named characters and no-names.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bartholemew Bear View Post
    SOOOOO much better than Dressrosa...
    So much better than the entirety of post-timeskip arcs thus far.
    Last edited by Count Mario; November 26th, 2016 at 06:07 AM.

    Spoiler:
    "Life's not about finding out which card is yours, but finding out which cards you're not."

  3. #403

    Default Re: Official Totland Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Mario View Post
    Pre-timeskip, no, Luffy's struggles pre-timeskip were about not being able to even compete with the top dogs. His training during the time skip only allows him to barely squeeze into the overall weight class. Training was not a surefire ticket for defeating every foe he comes across and it shouldn't be. That's seriously boring and repetitive. Luffy told Fujitora that he's not going to run away from the likes of admirals and Yonko anymore, and he should stick by that. But not turning down a challenge does not equate to the narrative bending to his whim of defeating them whenever they're present despite the nonsensical circumstances and needs of proper plot progression. And speaking of Hancock, there's plenty of evidence supporting that Big Mom could become an ally that will let Luffy go and bet on/support him to defeat Kaido as the main built-up threat of the current saga. So I don't recommend acting as if you definitely know how the arc will proceed, because as several people (and including myself) have noted, this is the first arc in a while where we are not completely sure what's going to happen from the unique story structure and factors at play. That is very entertaining and we should consider every possibility. As well as naturally being more inclined to support the ones that are more likely to happen and benefit the storytelling quality with character/plot consistency. I would argue that Big Mom not getting defeated by Luffy in a proper fight where she loses all of her power/status checks those two boxes rather nicely.

    And Robin's in Wano Country. Where Kaido is. I don't mean to sound like a jerk, it's just legitimately funny how you played yourself like a fiddle. XD But even disregarding that, so what? He has more enemies on his tail. It's not like we didn't already expect that to happen. Quantity does not change the quality in how Luffy may defeat his foes and if he even will for some of them.

    That's three Yonko that Luffy gets to hog to himself out of everybody else for a beatdown in the One Piece world. I'm personally not the biggest fan of that. I would prefer for their roles in the story to be more diverse like the Shichibukai in how Luffy only beat three and teamed up with five (Law, Hancock, Buggy (before he got the title), Jimbei, Crocodile (although he was no longer one of them). Keep in mind that I am not saying that Luffy should specifically team-up with a Yonko, I'm talking generally about how Oda doesn't have a whole faction of possible antagonists with intimidating reputations all get taken down by the protagonist.

    All four Yonko should get taken down by the end of the story, we all agree on that. But Whitebeard's death is irrelevant since the Yonko is still intact without him. And Blackbeard is a spiritual successor to him by stealing both his fruit and crew division structure, so Luffy is still figuratively fighting an even stronger Whitebeard when he finally defeats Teach. And actually, I don't what I was thinking when I said that Big Mom getting defeated this arc wouldn't make her weak. It totally does lol. A Yonko could totally be stronger than another one. But it should be by more than a small margin. Yet look at how Kaido gets to have the whole crew, Jimbei, Marco and the Whitebeard Remnants, Nekomamushi and Inurashi, the Zou Minks, (inevitably) the Samurai, Law and the Heart Pirates, Kid, maybe Hawkins, probably Drake (he's most likely a Marine double agents), and maybe even the Grand Fleet against him. And yet Big Mom picks up the scraps of getting (the weaker) half of the crew, Jimbei, random Minks, potentially the Homies, some rebellious children, and a ragtag army of the creatures in Big Mom's book. And a dash of backstabbing from Capone as well as the Fishman Island bomb. I'm not buying that unbalanced ratio of relevantly powerful named characters and no-names.


    So much better than the entirety of post-timeskip arcs thus far.
    But this is the stronger half of the crew. luffy, jimbei, sanji, nami, chopper, Brook>>> zoro, robin(that doesn't get proper fights anyway), franky, usopp. And Pedro, pekoms, carrot kinda replace those. Reason why he doesn't have full crew is because he plans to introduce new characters and give them fights, same it was with dressrosa. From supernovas there's capone, urouge can show since he was here before, bonney shares similarities with bm so she could be here too, 4 supernovas in total. There seems to be more for Kaidou? But apoo, drake, Hawkins seem like his underlings now, marco has weevil to worry about first, the samurais of wano under kaidou, so it the end it's balanced.

    And I don't see how it's better for BM to turn into some supporting character rather then best villain so far.

    And you also made that point about the doctor. Why is he here? Because the other half already has doctor law with them, and would be bad plan if one half gets both doctors? Also they could be very wounded after this arc so there you have it.
    Last edited by uniaka ikuzakas; November 26th, 2016 at 08:19 AM.

  4. #404
    The Die Has Been Cast Count Mario's Avatar
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    Default Re: Official Totland Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by uniaka ikuzakas View Post
    But this is the stronger half of the crew. luffy, jimbei, sanji, nami, chopper, Brook>>> zoro, robin(that doesn't get proper fights anyway), franky, usopp. And Pedro, pekoms, carrot kinda replace those. Reason why he doesn't have full crew is because he plans to introduce new characters and give them fights, same it was with dressrosa. From supernovas there's capone, urouge can show since he has here before, bonney share similarities with bm so she could be here too. There seems to be more for Kaidou? But apoo, drake, Hawkins seem like his underlings now, marco has weevil to worry about first, the samurais of wano under kaidou, so it the end it's balanced.

    And I don't see how it's better for BM to turn into some ally or forgive luffy all he does rather then best villain so far.

    And you also made that point about the doctor. Why is he here? Because the other half already has doctor law with them, and would be bad plan if one half gets both doctors? Also they could be very wounded after this arc so there you have it.
    The samurai of Wano are inevitably going to rebel against the shogun's oppression if Wano Country is expected to be take direct historical inspiration from Feudal Japan. I doubt Urouge's going to come back, but who knows. And Capone will not be an ally. Backstabbing Pekoms and shooting him twice has established him as scum that needs to be taken down like the Vinsmokes. We haven't seen where or heard about Hawkins yet, so I wouldn't be surprised if he escaped. And no it's not balanced. And whether this half of the Straw Hats is stronger than the other half is irrelevant because Kaido gets the privilege of the whole crew reuniting to take him down at Wano Country. Big Mom apparently deserves half for her supposed defeat.

    She doesn't have to become a straight ally or forgive Luffy. Once the arc approaches its finale, Big Mom could offer Luffy to play a similar game like she gave Jimbei when he tried to leave. A game full of tension and risks that still give Big Mom credit as threat. I would very much like that as a form of negotiation, and Luffy's pride and stupidity would definitely accept such a challenge akin to accepting Foxy's proposal for the Davy Back Fight.

    Chopper's here because Big Mom has an illness. And the Straw Hats are not going to help alleviate the illness of someone who is going to remain as the main antagonist. Giving Big Mom plenty of room to be grateful and open to negotiation, especially if they also help stop a coup from Capone and maybe even Germa 66 at the wedding.

    Spoiler:
    "Life's not about finding out which card is yours, but finding out which cards you're not."

  5. #405

    Default Re: Official Totland Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Mario View Post
    The samurai of Wano are inevitably going to rebel against the shogun's oppression if Wano Country is expected to be take direct historical inspiration from Feudal Japan. I doubt Urouge's going to come back, but who knows. And Capone will not be an ally. Backstabbing Pekoms and shooting him twice has established him as scum that needs to be taken down like the Vinsmokes. We haven't seen where or heard about Hawkins yet, so I wouldn't be surprised if he escaped. And no it's not balanced. And whether this half of the Straw Hats is stronger than the other half is irrelevant because Kaido gets the privilege of the whole crew reuniting to take him down at Wano Country. Big Mom apparently deserves half for her supposed defeat.

    She doesn't have to become a straight ally or forgive Luffy. Once the arc approaches its finale, Big Mom could offer Luffy to play a similar game like she gave Jimbei when he tried to leave. A game full of tension and risks that still give Big Mom credit as threat. I would very much like that as a form of negotiation, and Luffy's pride and stupidity would definitely accept such a challenge akin to accepting Foxy's proposal for the Davy Back Fight.

    Chopper's here because Big Mom has an illness. And the Straw Hats are not going to help alleviate the illness of someone who is going to remain as the main antagonist. Giving Big Mom plenty of room to be grateful and open to negotiation, especially if they also help stop a coup from Capone and maybe even Germa 66 at the wedding.
    Why would germa go against BM? They want to become her underlings so she helps them get north blue.

    BM allowing SH to leave after this arc would ruin yonkou reputation, wait for when word gets out and other yonkous will go after her. Luffy gets: jimbei and fishmen, sanji, chopper( was said BM wants him for the rare creatures book). BM gets: no more germa66 underlings, cure for something she didn't even complain about, was easily fixed by jimbei giving her something to eat, escaped some attack from capone that she should be able to handle herself since she is yonkou.
    Last edited by uniaka ikuzakas; November 26th, 2016 at 08:45 AM.

  6. #406
    The Die Has Been Cast Count Mario's Avatar
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    Default Re: Official Totland Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by uniaka ikuzakas View Post
    Why would germa go agains't BM? They want to become her underlings so she helps them get north blue.

    BM allowing SH to leave after this arc would ruin yonkou reputation. Luffy gets: jimbei, sanji, chopper( was said BM wants him for the rare creatures book), no more wedding with germa nation. BM gets: cure for something she didn't even complain about, was easily fixed by jimbei giving her something to eat. It's like BM would get a small bite out of apple while luffy gets the rest.
    Plot twists. The wedding is bound to be chaotic, and it's inevitable for Big Mom to get another illness-induced rage where she gets out of control. Not to mention Capone throwing a coup. The Vinsmokes could take advantage of that, or even be revealed to have planned the wedding to take down Big Mom as a mercenary job. Similar plot twists have happened before in One Piece with Kuro and CP9.

    No it wouldn't. And if it would, then her reputation is already ruined. Because she agreed to spare Fishman Island and focus her wrath on the Straw Hat Pirates after negotiating with Luffy. She was willing to let Jimbei walk away from the crew in exchange for something of "equal value" by playing a roulette-based game. And she accepted Sanji's plea to let the Straw Hats go after the wedding in exchange for Sanji being cooperative until then. Big Mom's whole deal is, well, making deals like a Mafioso. And as long as they're past with the Marines and the Sora comics aren't elaborated on (which probably guarantees another flashback), nothing is off the table for the wedding not proceeding as planned.

    And you are heavily understating Big Mom's illness. She seems to not even know when they occur from her memory loss when talking to Jimbei. if she finds out that she almost destroyed Totland and her family, she WILL be grateful. Anybody would. It's hard to complain about something you don't remember happening or even believe exists, especially when the people around her lie and try to hide the corpses. Also, the food that she wants is probably random. And I'm willing to bet that her anticipation to eat the wedding cake means that her illness will make her demand that type of wedding cake. Except that it will most likely be destroyed (probably from the Fishman Island bomb). Which means a whole wedding cake (which is probably going to be huge since this is an island made of food, especially if Big Mom is so eager to eat it) needs to be cooked while Big Mom goes on a rampage across her kingdom. That is not exactly the easiest task. But it is something that I expect Sanji can get done through enough help and struggling. Along with Chopper diagnosing and alleviating her illness.

    Spoiler:
    "Life's not about finding out which card is yours, but finding out which cards you're not."

  7. #407

    Default Re: Official Totland Thread

    The scenario you're describing is quite complicated, Count Mario. You rely heavily on the assumption that Big Mom will be willing to negotiate with Luffy after all he did and will do. Another thing you rely on is her sickness, which you count on being a factor but might not really matter that much, based on how Big Mom acts even when she isn't dazed: she's very eager to kill Lola to the point of even threatening to torture Nami for the information.

    Big Mom may display a compromising attitude, but I think she's actually a shrewd businesswoman. There were no deals before that doesn't favor her in the first place. That "roulette" thing with Jimbei looks like just a simple game of darts where he has to hit the bull's eye so we won't have to give up anything. Based on Jimbei's skill on throwing water, he might accomplish that so I suspect it's rigged. Also, I don't like the idea of ultimately deciding this arc via a game. It's lame in my opinion after all that buildup. .

    Big Mom is fated to lose a lot this arc. All her book prisoners, Sanji, Jimbei, fishmen pirates, commanders, firetank pirates and the poneglyphs, maybe even fishmen island and Germa. The only deal I can see her agreeing to in exchange to letting all of those thing go as well as the hold to Baratie's lives is when she's pleading for her own life... Scratch that, I can't see that happening. So, no deal!

    Luffy always struggle. He has to, to make the story interesting and suspenseful. But he also is always holding back since after timeskip. It is evidenced on how he hasn't panicked, when we readers already do for him in that situation. He could have overwhelm every enemy earlier but he has to allow things to escalate first.
    Some long-term predictions:
    Vegapunk with Paw-Paw fruit for Nakama!!!
    Kaidou is gonna be killed by Blackbeard and get his strongest Zoan DF!!!

  8. #408

    Default Re: Official Totland Thread

    This arc has so many things I'm hyped to see!
    Chapter 437 Discussion after franky decides to join the Strawhats:
    So who think Usopp is inside that duffelbag?
    H x H Chimera Ant Arc / OP Manga Spoiler
    Spoiler:



  9. #409

    Default Re: Official Totland Thread

    What i'm more hyped to see in this arc, even more than the wedding and Tea Party, is Sanji defeating his brothers in front of Judge. Probably the main fight will be vs Ichiji, since some hints seem to indicate he's one step above the others. It'll be the ultimate slap in the face for Judge, both as a father and as a scientist, to see his precious best son/creation be defeated with sheer fighting skills by the "failure" he threw away.
    Last edited by Dr. Faust; November 26th, 2016 at 03:03 PM.

  10. #410
    Ship Surfer The Tenth Strawhat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Official Totland Thread

    Bropper's plan, Brook and Pedro's decoy plan, the wedding day, the Tamatebako boom and the ensuing chaos, Luffy and BM meeting face to face, Sanji's brother showdown, and of course Jinbei's official recruitment as a SH. Top it all off with the fact that most to everyone won't know how these events will play out and you got a recipe for an awesome arc. There's so much to look forward to, I'm getting excited just thinking about it!
    The face of a Straw Hat.

  11. #411

    Default Re: Official Totland Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Mario View Post
    But it is something that I expect Sanji can get done through enough help and struggling. Along with Chopper diagnosing and alleviating her illness.
    I am completely fine with the Vinsmoke-related plot twists you describe. However, the resolution you propose for the illness relies heavily on the assumption that the Straw Hats are going to have any sort of interest in, let alone want to, helping cure Big Mom.
    - While we have seen Sanji tend to the needs of starving enemies, I find it a stretch to say that he would feel compelled to interfere with a food-related illness.
    - As for the rest of the crew, the sensible thing to do the minute Mama goes on her rampage would be to grab the poneglyphs, wish everyone good luck and run for it in the ensuing chaos (although this may arguably better describe how the Blackbeard pirates would handle the situation). My point being that I don't see why the Straw Hats would be willing to go out of their way to help Big Mom, especially after everything she has done (and will do) to them. Gain her favor? I can't picture Luffy trying to broker such a deal. Nami or Sanji may reason like that, but their captain will probably still want to cure her with a heavy dose of Myfistinyourface.
    - Last but not least, I have a hard time imagining that Linlin is fully unaware of her illness. The story so far has put little emphasis on that, save for her children removing Moscato's body (they could be trying to restore his life instead), and with damage on such a scale there's no way she'd be unaware that something happened after a crisis. Either way, we don't even see her lament for a single second over the consequences, it's like she doesn't care at all what happened to her country and son. And so if she is aware, she likely doesn't care much and therefore would not be all that thankful to anyone curing her.

    An alternate drive for the "cure" strategy would be for Sanji to act out of concern for Pudding, because he does not want her to suffer the consequences of a failed wedding. This I could see as a sufficient motivation for Luffy to listen to reason, and the rest of the crew to get involved. By curing Big Mom, they would be helping Sanji.
    But I still find it a stretch that she would be as thankful as to overlook the upcoming events.

  12. #412

    Default Re: Official Totland Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Seafarer33 View Post
    I am completely fine with the Vinsmoke-related plot twists you describe. However, the resolution you propose for the illness relies heavily on the assumption that the Straw Hats are going to have any sort of interest in, let alone want to, helping cure Big Mom.
    - While we have seen Sanji tend to the needs of starving enemies, I find it a stretch to say that he would feel compelled to interfere with a food-related illness.
    - As for the rest of the crew, the sensible thing to do the minute Mama goes on her rampage would be to grab the poneglyphs, wish everyone good luck and run for it in the ensuing chaos (although this may arguably better describe how the Blackbeard pirates would handle the situation). My point being that I don't see why the Straw Hats would be willing to go out of their way to help Big Mom, especially after everything she has done (and will do) to them. Gain her favor? I can't picture Luffy trying to broker such a deal. Nami or Sanji may reason like that, but their captain will probably still want to cure her with a heavy dose of Myfistinyourface.
    - Last but not least, I have a hard time imagining that Linlin is fully unaware of her illness. The story so far has put little emphasis on that, save for her children removing Moscato's body (they could be trying to restore his life instead), and with damage on such a scale there's no way she'd be unaware that something happened after a crisis. Either way, we don't even see her lament for a single second over the consequences, it's like she doesn't care at all what happened to her country and son. And so if she is aware, she likely doesn't care much and therefore would not be all that thankful to anyone curing her.

    An alternate drive for the "cure" strategy would be for Sanji to act out of concern for Pudding, because he does not want her to suffer the consequences of a failed wedding. This I could see as a sufficient motivation for Luffy to listen to reason, and the rest of the crew to get involved. By curing Big Mom, they would be helping Sanji.
    But I still find it a stretch that she would be as thankful as to overlook the upcoming events.
    I think chopper wild have the same cant let someone suffer thing that sanji has with food, I dont think chopper would hesitate that much if someone was in pain in front of him
    Chapter 437 Discussion after franky decides to join the Strawhats:
    So who think Usopp is inside that duffelbag?
    H x H Chimera Ant Arc / OP Manga Spoiler
    Spoiler:



  13. #413
    The Die Has Been Cast Count Mario's Avatar
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    Default Re: Official Totland Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Seafarer33 View Post
    I am completely fine with the Vinsmoke-related plot twists you describe. However, the resolution you propose for the illness relies heavily on the assumption that the Straw Hats are going to have any sort of interest in, let alone want to, helping cure Big Mom.
    I understand. But they're going to be trying to save Totland. Save the friends that will have made by then. And like Rayleigh said, I can't see Chopper refusing to alleviate someone's illness in the same way that Sanji can't resist saving someone from starving. Also, I wasn't really talking about the Straw Hats as much as Oda. With how Oda tends to write his main antagonists as irredeemable and not deserving pity, I can't see him having Big Mom get cured by the Straw Hats if she's going to remain a full-on villain towards them.

    - While we have seen Sanji tend to the needs of starving enemies, I find it a stretch to say that he would feel compelled to interfere with a food-related illness.
    Why? Why would suffering from an illness where you need food to survive or else you will experience agony and harm others around you not as terrible as starvation according to Sanji's principles? Also, I brought this up in another thread. Sanji's mother. She suffered from an illness and Sanji as a kid would try to cook her meals in order to help her feel better and follow in her footsteps as a cook. If he tried and failed to heal his mother in such a way, then helping to cure Big Mom would be the ultimate symbolic sign of his character growth after all of the training and suffering he's undergone throughout his life in pursuing his dreams that are majorly inspired by the compassion of his mother.

    - As for the rest of the crew, the sensible thing to do the minute Mama goes on her rampage would be to grab the poneglyphs, wish everyone good luck and run for it in the ensuing chaos (although this may arguably better describe how the Blackbeard pirates would handle the situation). My point being that I don't see why the Straw Hats would be willing to go out of their way to help Big Mom, especially after everything she has done (and will do) to them. Gain her favor? I can't picture Luffy trying to broker such a deal. Nami or Sanji may reason like that, but their captain will probably still want to cure her with a heavy dose of Myfistinyourface.
    They are not going to do that after befriending Pudding, as well as probably all of the creatures that were locked in Book World. Franky saw the Tontattas in trouble and pleaded to Luffy that they should help them, and Luffy agreed. They are not going to let innocent people be destroyed by a rampaging monster, especially one that has no control over her free will, because they are that inconsiderate. They don't have to cure Big Mom to help Big Mom (although I argue that Chopper and Sanji would want to do so because of their principles. And I don't think that Luffy would appreciate Capone and/or the Vinsmokes betraying Big Mom due to that not lining up with his principles about nakama and loyalty).

    And Luffy would totally take a deal like that. I think you're forgetting how stupid and prideful Luffy he is. We already saw that with how he waged war against Big Mom and how stubborn he is abut keeping his promise to Sanji. But if you need more examples, he let Foxy fool him into participating in the Davy Back Fight. And when Chopper was complaining about being on the other side, he didn't break the rules and try to punch Foxy's face. He told Chopper to stop complaining, take pride in piracy, and have confidence in the ability of his nakama. Luffy often approaches fists as the first option, yes, but he knows when the odds are against him and when another route may be needed. Such as when Aokiji showed up and he told the rest of the crew to run away. Or when Kizaru, Kuma, and Sentomaru showed up, and he told everyone to run as well as screaming about how Zoro was going to die due to his injuries. Or how about when Luffy first met Usopp? Usopp lied about being a big wig pirate and bragged about shooting Luffy, but Luffy pulled a Shanks by daring him to pull the trigger and said that pirates shouldn't joke about putting their lives on the line. Or how about Luffy and Zoro promising Nami not to fight in Jaya, and Luffy and Zoro not fighting Bellamy both because of that and having pity for people who didn't have dreams, thus not being worth fighting. Or when he pleaded to Crocodile to not blow a sandstorm where Kohza's father was digging up a well because he wasn't involved in the fight.

    Luffy is stubborn as hell and interprets piracy as being selfish towards your ambitions. And Big Mom actually has that very same philosophy in how she makes these deals. I doubt that Oda intersected these two philosophies willy-nilly, especially because of how much emphasis he puts on the recurring philosophical themes of the manga when it comes to dreams, willpower, friendship, inherited will, freedom, etc.

    Also, you are assuming that Big Mom has to make the deal and establish the conditions. Whose to say that Luffy gaining lots of allies in this arc won't make HIM the one the one with enough leverage to convince Big Mom to go with a deal? He definitely does not have enough power to defeat her, but he can build up enough connections to make a war suffer too much of a loss on Big Mom's side.

    - Last but not least, I have a hard time imagining that Linlin is fully unaware of her illness. The story so far has put little emphasis on that, save for her children removing Moscato's body (they could be trying to restore his life instead), and with damage on such a scale there's no way she'd be unaware that something happened after a crisis. Either way, we don't even see her lament for a single second over the consequences, it's like she doesn't care at all what happened to her country and son. And so if she is aware, she likely doesn't care much and therefore would not be all that thankful to anyone curing her.
    Oh really?

    Spoiler:












    Pay attention her conversation with Jimbei specifically. She remembers NOTHING about what just happened and questions why everything looks so lively and messy. And Jimbei lies about not knowing what's going on even though he just helped suppress her illness. That is really weird. So she doesn't know she killed her son. Yet her children decided to hide the body as quickly as possible without even expressing remorse, although I do agree that they may have scavenged the "seconds" to eventually revive him (although I doubt it's that easy). And we actually know that Big Mom cares about her children by telling them not to fight and get along with each other. She has a twisted philosophy when it comes to the political marriages and Lola, sure, but that doesn't mean she likes doing it for the sake of it.

    Spoiler:






    So... She is not aware. So I would not jump ahead to conclude that she does not care about her country or children. Which is why it is very interesting to see her feelings towards Lola and look forward to the answers towards how Lola got a Vivre Card from Big Mom, who Lola was getting married to that would merit Big Mom with enough power to take down the other Yonko (I'm betting on Elbaf due to Big Mom's mysterious phobia of Giants), and if her twin sister played any role.

    And your argument about the story emphasis does not work. we know Pudding has a third eye, but we haven't seen it or heard about it since Big Mom's introduction in Fishman Island. Yet we are familiar enough with how far ahead Oda plans plot-threads to know that it's under her fringe and it's going to play significant role with her character. Also, we as fans always knew the Fishman Island explosives would play a significant role. But they only got referred to in the current chapter and were never referenced at all for the entirety of the arc until now. Oda likes to subtly hide establish plot threads until they're relevant as plot twist. It's just how he works.

    An alternate drive for the "cure" strategy would be for Sanji to act out of concern for Pudding, because he does not want her to suffer the consequences of a failed wedding. This I could see as a sufficient motivation for Luffy to listen to reason, and the rest of the crew to get involved. By curing Big Mom, they would be helping Sanji.
    But I still find it a stretch that she would be as thankful as to overlook the upcoming events.
    I stand by that she will be grateful enough to negotiate a deal. Unlike all of the other main antagonist, she has a few traits that are actually morally grey or even positive alongside her revolting negative ones. We've NEVER seen that in other antagonists. Yet the Vinsmokes and Capone are clearly portrayed as irredeemable. Highly hinting that they will take over as the main antagonists at some point during the wedding. She told Sanji she was willing to overlook everything Luffy did thus far. So yes, she can be persuaded. And this is why I support that they negotiate a deal, because even if Big Mom does not fully forgive Luffy, then having a deal like the roulette game she played with Jimbei would grant them "equal exchange".
    Last edited by Count Mario; November 26th, 2016 at 10:46 PM.

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  14. #414
    I do, bro! I do! Shadowgreed's Avatar
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    Default Re: Official Totland Thread

    Being defeated doesn't mean that one needs to be bloody and unconscious. Big Mama can be defeated just by Luffy taking Sanji back and not acquiring Germa 66 while also stealing a copy of her must precious asset.


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  15. #415
    The Die Has Been Cast Count Mario's Avatar
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    Default Re: Official Totland Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowgreed View Post
    Being defeated doesn't mean that one needs to be bloody and unconscious. Big Mama can be defeated just by Luffy taking Sanji back and not acquiring Germa 66 while also stealing a copy of her must precious asset.


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    Excellent line of thinking. But she also needs her corrupt reign of putting races into books and destroying islands and what not to stop as well. Which requires her being grateful and receptive to the Straw Hats' demands and ideals. Just wanted to tack that on.

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  16. #416
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    Quote Originally Posted by Count Mario View Post
    Excellent line of thinking. But she also needs her corrupt reign of putting races into books and destroying islands and what not to stop as well. Which requires her being grateful and receptive to the Straw Hats' demands and ideals. Just wanted to tack that on.
    Well her library is definitely getting destroyed in this arc, but I don't think we'll go so far as to stop her from being 'free', I mean, pirates usually get mentally destroyed and just forget about ambitions..


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  17. #417
    The Die Has Been Cast Count Mario's Avatar
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    Default Re: Official Totland Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowgreed View Post
    Well her library is definitely getting destroyed in this arc, but I don't think we'll go so far as to stop her from being 'free', I mean, pirates usually get mentally destroyed and just forget about ambitions..


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    I agree about the library, that's obvious. And you're right about how that always happens to villains that are defeated. But considering how a fight is probably only going to go as far as the Straw Hats fighting her in deranged illness mode and calming her down, I think she needs a bit more to have her ambitions crushed since she won't be in control of her actions. Making some sort of negotiation/game with Luffy like what she did for Jimbei would be the perfect closer for having her ambitions put down and a good way to have her defeated and properly acknowledge/remember it.

    But considering how Luffy most likely won't defeat her in a fist fight, I can see her forces being weakened from the wedding chaos making her vulnerable to getting taken out at some point after Luffy leaves. Mainly because I can't see any of the Yonko still being in power once the series ends.

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  18. #418

    Default Re: Official Totland Thread

    Big Mom dreams of a utopia where all races can live without discrimination, but she hates Giants.

    Maybe Big Mom herself is Giant and was discriminated by other Giants in her childhood since she is pretty small as Giant. The epithet "Big Mom" might represent her hidden desire to become bigger.

    It would have been a similar childhood to Sanji. She might have been told by other Giants, "What a waste of life", like Judge said to Sanji.
    If Big Mom happens to know the discrimination against Sanji from Vinsmoke family in the future, she can punch Judge in the face and break off the marriage between Sanji and Pudding.

    (Most Big Mom's children are not that big if they have some genes of Giant, though...)

    That's just my two cents.

  19. #419

    Default Re: Official Totland Thread

    I like Sandman's theory. Specially because of this:

    Newgate: Oversized human
    Shanks: Normal human
    Kaidou: Half evil giant (oars' family), half something else... apparently.
    Lin Lin: Little giant.
    Teach: Abnormal oversized human, but replacing his previous cathegory.

    Elbaf, according to the wiki, it's an island where giants reside. Nor a kingdom or country, but religion based, so they're independent at the moment of get any leader over them as a whole. Lola should be paired for someone else and it's hard to guess who, in Thriller Bark she was offering herself almost to anyone.
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    knowledge about it can't be communicated to others
    . Even if it can be communicated, it cannot be understood.

  20. #420

    Default Re: Official Totland Thread

    I never saw Teach as abnormal sized.

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