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Thread: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

  1. #5461

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post
    We already have low end replicators in 3D printers, which can make 3D objects from a file and can even make organs now. Not the sci-fi Trek replicator, but still insane.
    The company i work at just recently started to create complicated components from 3d drawings using metal powders that are molten and combined through a high degree laser, so yeah, technology is definitely progressing...

    Regarding translation, we already have this, so i have no doubt that we will get there eventually. The only translators that might stay relevant are those that will try to keep the artistic meaning of a piece of medium, which might be related to a specific feeling that the original creator is aiming for, or a specific context an AI might not recognize.


  2. #5462

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    If that is the current state of technology we probably won't get to what i would consider to a genuine mean of global communication within my life time. Functional i suppose, but nah i'd feel silly running around like that

  3. #5463

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfwood View Post
    If that is the current state of technology we probably won't get to what i would consider to a genuine mean of global communication within my life time. Functional i suppose, but nah i'd feel silly running around like that
    Is it running around speaking into a device or the voice of it?

  4. #5464

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by MiyamotoMusashi View Post
    Is it running around speaking into a device or the voice of it?
    The whole thing of having a middleman stall any potential conversation just ruins the appeal of it. Like imagine your sitting on the steps of some romantic place, her head resting on your shoulder and then when you want to whisper those sweet nothings in her ear you gotta pull out the hello kitty computer and wait a few seconds for it to parse your words. This isn't even remotely close to replacing a human conversation. Like for i'd like a hot dog please it is workable, but beyond that it needs alot of work. Dunno maybe i'm just being an anti-technology grump here

  5. #5465

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    You must be over your 80s then. The thing with technology is that once the barrier of "new" is broken. Innovation on it becomes much simpler as you are not trying to make it work, but optimize it. So even though "instant translation implant" sounds so far away. If we see where each of this individual components are at, it is much easier to realize we are not as far away as we think.

    - Translation apps. Just a matter of feeding enough data sets, to increase the quality.
    - Implants. Ear implants to help with hearing aid already exist. Earpieces connected to your phone already exist. It is more likely to see the latter being implemented with translator apps.

    https://www.digitaltrends.com/cool-t...king-implants/

    I can agree that looking at the examples above, some might not seem as clean for the ideal communication. Look at the example of the guy that did an implant on himself. But if we are implanting sensors to detect north. Then programming those sensors, and giving them access to a language AI does not seem like 50 years from now.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Ah you were refering more of the speaking part. I find that is a much harder problem to tackle and do not see a clean solution besides writing what you want to say before and then getting it translated into your ear for now.

    The main issue I see right now is the "double audio" of when you would say it, and then have either an AI or your voice audio say the translated bit again.

    So the better solution would be to do it through brain wave manipulation/translation.

    https://fortune.com/2019/05/07/artif...ng-technology/
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  6. #5466

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfwood View Post
    The whole thing of having a middleman stall any potential conversation just ruins the appeal of it. Like imagine your sitting on the steps of some romantic place, her head resting on your shoulder and then when you want to whisper those sweet nothings in her ear you gotta pull out the hello kitty computer and wait a few seconds for it to parse your words. This isn't even remotely close to replacing a human conversation. Like for i'd like a hot dog please it is workable, but beyond that it needs alot of work. Dunno maybe i'm just being an anti-technology grump here
    Teenagers don't need romance, they have their mobile phone to spend their life with already...

  7. #5467

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg View Post
    That's it folks. You heard Lord Gaimon, pack it in. There's nothing more to discover.

    RIP
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    Dawn of Tools - 2019

    lol
    I gave up on the, "There's no way that's possible!", hard-stance in life when they announced they're getting closer to recording mental images and the means by which it's accomplished is remarkable: massive video databases that attempt to replicate what an individual is thinking. Imagine when that's fine-tuned 100 years from now and instantly searching yottabytes of video from the entirety of human history can be done by consumer devices.

    Once enough search algorithms are added and biological states are interpreted by AI systems indicating purpose and context, it will happen.
    it doesn't matter how big the data sets get, unless we can make the machines actually understand language they will never match human translators and that is not a simple task it will basically mean creating real AI. it's theoretically possible but we are not close

  8. #5468

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfwood View Post
    The whole thing of having a middleman stall any potential conversation just ruins the appeal of it. Like imagine your sitting on the steps of some romantic place, her head resting on your shoulder and then when you want to whisper those sweet nothings in her ear you gotta pull out the hello kitty computer and wait a few seconds for it to parse your words. This isn't even remotely close to replacing a human conversation. Like for i'd like a hot dog please it is workable, but beyond that it needs alot of work. Dunno maybe i'm just being an anti-technology grump here
    Thatīs a very specific application of a technological device that is really in its baby steps at the moment.
    Nevertheless, it is certainly difficult to use it in this example, but it is really one of the few exceptions in which the deliverance of information is secondary to the mood, context and style of how you say it.
    Other things would be funerals or speeches in general.

    In most cases though, this certainly does not apply, so i see no issue, especially once the voice is actually worked out to be teh same as yours.

  9. #5469

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Teaching AI the rules of grammar, and languages in general is a really hard thing to do. But that is only one way of teaching it.

    You can also teach the AI to distinguish patterns. So you don't have to teach an AI how to construct a sentence like: good morning, how have you been? But teach it that expression or sequence of words is highly probable when greeting someone in the morning. Big Data is a thing, not to be underestimated.

    Same like in Go. Having a computer play Go at a high level is impossible because of human intuition and creativity. Until it was possible.
    Last edited by K. Kira XXIII; August 13th, 2019 at 06:47 AM.
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  10. #5470

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by MiyamotoMusashi View Post
    Thatīs a very specific application of a technological device that is really in its baby steps at the moment.
    Nevertheless, it is certainly difficult to use it in this example, but it is really one of the few exceptions in which the deliverance of information is secondary to the mood, context and style of how you say it.
    Other things would be funerals or speeches in general.

    In most cases though, this certainly does not apply, so i see no issue, especially once the voice is actually worked out to be teh same as yours.
    Or y'know friendly conversations. Talking shit with your friends over a little translating screen. You want to playfully insult your friend after beating him in fifa and you pull out the literal word translator that says you are bad at this game. Like nuances, feelings, personal word choices, slang, intonation, sarcasm. Everything that makes interaction enjoyable does not exist in this technology. If Oda thinks this will replace the need for language education then he's gonna have to wait a long time is all i'm saying

  11. #5471

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfwood View Post
    Or y'know friendly conversations. Talking shit with your friends over a little translating screen. You want to playfully insult your friend after beating him in fifa and you pull out the literal word translator that says you are bad at this game. Like nuances, feelings, personal word choices, slang, intonation, sarcasm. Everything that makes interaction enjoyable does not exist in this technology. If Oda thinks this will replace the need for language education then he's gonna have to wait a long time is all i'm saying
    Friends that do not speak your own language?
    Maybe i have not traveled enough but at least i did not regard anybody i could not communicate with in a meaningful manner a "friend", but i admit everyone is different in that regard.

    All these can be imitated, like Kira already said, depending on the size and intricacy of the data that is used, since the majority of people hardly have original speech patterns and vocabulary that would be unusual, nor determine the quality of the exchange.

  12. #5472

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by MiyamotoMusashi View Post
    Friends that do not speak your own language?
    Maybe i have not traveled enough but at least i did not regard anybody i could not communicate with in a meaningful manner a "friend", but i admit everyone is different in that regard.

    All these can be imitated, like Kira already said, depending on the size and intricacy of the data that is used, since the majority of people hardly have original speech patterns and vocabulary that would be unusual, nor determine the quality of the exchange.
    Alot of my friends are immigrants who learned the language and i myself speak English with people on a pretty much daily basis. In the we don't need to learn other languages because of babelfish technology example we'd all be sitting around with a speech bot each. Like in theory i buy that technology will eventually get there, but to kick back in 2019 with a dead certain belief that i don't need to apply myself to languages feels overly optimistic. Bridging solution within a few years, yeah i could see it, an active replacement for forming deeper connections to people in their native language? Yeah count me as a sceptic for now

  13. #5473

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfwood View Post
    Alot of my friends are immigrants who learned the language and i myself speak English with people on a pretty much daily basis. In the we don't need to learn other languages because of babelfish technology example we'd all be sitting around with a speech bot each. Like in theory i buy that technology will eventually get there, but to kick back in 2019 with a dead certain belief that i don't need to apply myself to languages feels overly optimistic. Bridging solution within a few years, yeah i could see it, an active replacement for forming deeper connections to people in their native language? Yeah count me as a sceptic for now
    I think you are focusing too much on an edge case scenario. What does deeper connection entail? Before you mentioned being able to roast your friend at fifa. But that sort of thing is a lot harder to categorize, even if you are a human that has studied the language. Colloquialism and slang expand the variables in the language equation as it has to take context of the society and trends going on at the time. Not impossible, but the creation of slang is, in my opinion, very subjective in terms of randomness.

    Not sure if you saw the article I posted a page back. But in terms of solutions to your ideal, with my very basic knowledge on the matter. Further data sets which also can include slang usage. Also using neuroscience to translate brain waves signals into the intended word in the required language.

    The link again, just in case: https://fortune.com/2019/05/07/artif...ng-technology/
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  14. #5474
    The Moustache Bandit Nolus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    What I'm wondering is how an AI would translate puns and jokes that work only in the original language? That's when peak creativity needs to be brought to the forefront! When the dadjokes strike!


  15. #5475

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Just like an inner joke only works with your friends, an untranslatable pun is an inner joke with those you share your language.

    There is no way, without the original context, to express that Zoro's attacks are both sushi and cutting puns, or that Oda is careful with "Cinco Manos fleur" and variations of it because Cinco ~ Chinko -> Dick. An universal translator will mean a loss of a dimension of language, even when identified, as the "live translation", just as a human translator, can't just say that in the middle of a conversation.

    Back to the bounds and leaps with communication before, it always comes with sacrifices. Written loses inflection, spoken loses clarity and reusability, recording is a mess, text forced the evolution of emoji to convey inflection and a casual tone, and some psycho invented the voice note. These advances aren't free and perfect, the cost is hidden, but it is there.
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  16. #5476

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by K. Kira XXIII View Post
    I think you are focusing too much on an edge case scenario.
    Isn't human communication basically a huge cluster fuck of edge case scenarios.

    What does deeper connection entail?
    Deeper as opposed to something used as a utility. I can get by on my very basic French, ask for directions, order a meal yadda yadda. But i can acheive something much more meaningful in English, the depth of conversation i can have in English is close to what i can do in my native tongue. I could live a full life in an English speaking nation and not feel constrained by the language in a social or work setting, i could comfortably grasp and apply the nuances of the language when i speak to the native speakers. I mean take a little thing like making a word pun, i can make shitty word play all day long. For the lack of a better word these are things i would count as depth

  17. #5477
    POE WUN BGR Greg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Greg: Oda said a thing, and it's coming true.
    Future Deniers: That's ridiculous, it'll never happen.
    Everyone: Actually no it's not.
    wolfwood: I don't give a shit if it's possible or not but here's why it would mean the collapse of modern society.

    So Stampede is doing pretty well.

    If it maintains and keeps making headlines it could do better than GOLD. Don't think it will touch Z but that would be a miracle if it did.

  18. #5478

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Where do I find the numbers of film Z and Strong World?

  19. #5479

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg View Post
    wolfwood: I don't give a shit if it's possible or not but here's why it would mean the collapse of modern society.


    https://youtu.be/xHash5takWU

  20. #5480

    Default Re: Greg: Teacher of SUPER " OP " course !

    I've got three of the films Strong World, Z, and Gold

    And I can't wait to get Stampede!

    It's just gonna be hell avoiding spoilers on the film before it comes out in English Dub, especially since I'm a regular here on a One Piece Fourm site

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