View Poll Results: Who is The Big Bad Wolf?

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669. You may not vote on this poll
  • Marshall D. Teach "Blackbeard"

    431 64.42%
  • Sakazuki "Akainu"

    39 5.83%
  • The Gorosei

    93 13.90%
  • Shanks "Red Hair

    15 2.24%
  • Charlotte LinLin "Big Mom"

    3 0.45%
  • Kaidou "The man of a thousand beasts"

    3 0.45%
  • Kong

    2 0.30%
  • Dragon

    7 1.05%
  • Seventh Shichibukai

    2 0.30%
  • Other

    74 11.06%
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Thread: Who is the final villain in One Piece? 2.0

  1. #361
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    Default Re: Who is the final villain in One Piece? 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by valiantt View Post
    TO BE FAIR, it is also easy to see how Akainu would be the final villain since his overall design/background is fairly utilized quite often as the lazy man's final villain by other writers. So it is easy to see how one would often think "Yeah, this guy fits as final villian material" because his archetype usage is quite common.

    However, since I like to think Oda put a lot of thought into his final villain, I'm going to presume he's going with the more effective choice (BB) rather than the easier one (Akainu).
    You know, you keep saying that, but I have a hard time remembering actual examples...

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey King View Post
    Akainu's symbolic value as a final antagonist:
    -
    -
    Well, conflict between Freedom and Security is quite symbolic. Plus we get a bonus in terms of personal conflict.

    Other then the dark reflection thing, what do we really have in terms of symbolic value of Blackbeard?

  2. #362
    I Like Video Game Music hosemisnuba's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who is the final villain in One Piece? 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth View Post



    Well, conflict between Freedom and Security is quite symbolic. Plus we get a bonus in terms of personal conflict.

    Other then the dark reflection thing, what do we really have in terms of symbolic value of Blackbeard?
    Chaos versus Freedom. Two sides of the same coin. Just as, if not more symbolic than a conflict between freedom and security. Furthermore, Luffy versus Blackbeard will be personal in the end, when Blackbeard kills Shanks, who is a lot more important to the plot than Poochie and actually has symbolism in his death.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Oh here's an idea for the symbolism of the final battle. Marines versus WG versus Luffy and Co versus Blackbeard. In other words, security versus detente versus freedom versus Chaos.

  3. #363
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    Default Re: Who is the final villain in One Piece? 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by hosemisnuba View Post
    Chaos versus Freedom. Two sides of the same coin. Just as, if not more symbolic than a conflict between freedom and security. Furthermore, Luffy versus Blackbeard will be personal in the end, when Blackbeard kills Shanks, who is a lot more important to the plot than Poochie and actually has symbolism in his death.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Oh here's an idea for the symbolism of the final battle. Marines versus WG versus Luffy and Co versus Blackbeard. In other words, security versus detente versus freedom versus Chaos.
    We are yet to see Blackbeard intentionaly cause Chaos. So far, everything he has done has been egoistical and self-serving in nature, not Chaotic.

    Poochie's death not withstanding, I think Akainu's claim for symbolism is also strong. Whatever it will be as strong as Blackbeards when the time comes remains to be seen.

  4. #364
    I Like Video Game Music hosemisnuba's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who is the final villain in One Piece? 2.0

    <p>
    Quote Originally Posted by Darth View Post
    We are yet to see Blackbeard intentionaly cause Chaos. So far, everything he has done has been egoistical and self-serving in nature, not Chaotic. Poochie&#39;s death not withstanding, I think Akainu&#39;s claim for symbolism is also strong. Whatever it will be as strong as Blackbeards when the time comes remains to be seen.
    Spoiler:
    Want more? Furthermore, both his devil fruits are manifestations of chaos; blackholes and earthquakes are natural occurence chaotic in nature.</p>

  5. #365

    Default Re: Who is the final villain in One Piece? 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth View Post
    We are yet to see Blackbeard intentionaly cause Chaos. So far, everything he has done has been egoistical and self-serving in nature, not Chaotic.
    Every time you talk about the ending parts of Marineford it's like you didn't read it. I'm thinking now that you did, but were so wildly caught up in a lustful masturbatory frenzy of Akainu related drooling that you missed everything else that happened.

  6. #366
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    Default Re: Who is the final villain in One Piece? 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey King View Post
    Every time you talk about the ending parts of Marineford it's like you didn't read it. I'm thinking now that you did, but were so wildly caught up in a lustful masturbatory frenzy of Akainu related drooling that you missed everything else that happened.
    Was the intention of Blackbeard to cause Chaos, or was it a simple self-gratification in terms of showing off?

    See, that's the problem with you: You create theories, and the interpret the fact in accord to them. Do not mistake a unintentional effect of one's actions as a proof of some deeper symbolism.

  7. #367

    Default Re: Who is the final villain in One Piece? 2.0

    Does Oda has to come to his house and spoon-fed this stuff for him to understand this straight forward stuff?
    My god i have never seen such a clueless person in my life .

  8. #368
    I Like Video Game Music hosemisnuba's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who is the final villain in One Piece? 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth View Post
    Was the intention of Blackbeard to cause Chaos, or was it a simple self-gratification in terms of showing off? See, that's the problem with you: You create theories, and the interpret the fact in accord to them. Do not mistake a unintentional effect of one's actions as a proof of some deeper symbolism.
    Go read chapter 577 page 14, and tell me that Blackbeard isn't emblematic of chaos. He's goes out and says screw peace and screw the law. That's chaos in a nutshell.

  9. #369

    Default Re: Who is the final villain in One Piece? 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth View Post
    Was the intention of Blackbeard to cause Chaos, or was it a simple self-gratification in terms of showing off?

    See, that's the problem with you: You create theories, and the interpret the fact in accord to them. Do not mistake a unintentional effect of one's actions as a proof of some deeper symbolism.
    Reminder to everyone that this is in response to Oda deliberately having Blackbeard go on a screed about how "peace is boring" amid his rampage on Marineford.

  10. #370
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    Default Re: Who is the final villain in One Piece? 2.0

    Why would people want Akainu to be the final villain? Order vs Freedom can be fun and all but it's been done to death. A conflict between two different moral standards of freedom and how an idealistic and seemingly benevolent concept can so easily be corrupted and abused to hurt people is far more interesting and original.

  11. #371
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    Default Re: Who is the final villain in One Piece? 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by hosemisnuba View Post
    Go read chapter 577 page 14, and tell me that Blackbeard isn't emblematic of chaos. He's goes out and says screw peace and screw the law. That's chaos in a nutshell.
    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey King View Post
    Reminder to everyone that this is in response to Oda deliberately having Blackbeard go on a screed about how "peace is boring" amid his rampage on Marineford.
    He says nothing of the sort. He just calls commoners peace loving. He never said anything of the sort things you go on about.

    Really now. He is hardly Chaos Incarnate. Or even a tiny bit. Hell, his words after gaining immense power are that he intends to rule, which is in and of itself activity relaying on Order, not Chaos.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by TLC View Post
    Why would people want Akainu to be the final villain? Order vs Freedom can be fun and all but it's been done to death. A conflict between two different moral standards of freedom and how an idealistic and seemingly benevolent concept can so easily be corrupted and abused to hurt people is far more interesting and original.
    All three of them at the same time even more so.

    Besides, you all go on about how the concept been done to death, but you hardly give away examples.

  12. #372
    21st Century Schizoid Man Johnny B. Decent's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who is the final villain in One Piece? 2.0

    Generally speaking, I've noticed those who believe Akainu is the final villain generally do so on two reasons: Both that he killed Ace and that he is the Fleet Admiral......which both were caused by Blackbeard. His killing of Ace? It only happened when Blackbeard sold Ace to the WG for a Shichibukai spot. Him becoming Fleet Admiral? Well, that happened because Sengoku quit, and his disgust that the World Government was going to cover up Level Six ID prisoners escaping....which was caused By Blackbeard going down there in the first place.

    Literally, so much of the landscape of One Piece's world, be it the changes in the Three Great Powers and Luffy's decision to train for two years happened directly or indirectly due to the consequences and affects of Blackbeard's plan, as general does the main villain's deeds and plans directly affects the narrative flow of the plot.

  13. #373
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    Default Re: Who is the final villain in One Piece? 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth View Post

    All three of them at the same time even more so.

    Oh sure, we'll delve into authoritarian regimes vs rebels but as to what is the crux of the manga...

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth View Post
    Besides, you all go on about how the concept been done to death, but you hardly give away examples.
    Are you kidding me? Do I have to? Fucking Star Wars did this, man.

  14. #374
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    Default Re: Who is the final villain in One Piece? 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by TLC View Post
    Oh sure, we'll delve into authoritarian regimes vs rebels but as to what is the crux of the manga...
    The crux is a massive world spanning conflict after finding One Piece, as foretold by Whitebeard. Thinking that either WG or Blackbeard will be utterly defeated before that is just silly.

    Quote Originally Posted by TLC View Post
    Are you kidding me? Do I have to? Fucking Star Wars did this, man.
    Not if you read extended universe...

    Anyway, how is that in any way the same? One Piece is not nearly as black and white as Star Wars is (the original ones anyway) for it to be true.

  15. #375

    Default Re: Who is the final villain in One Piece? 2.0

    Methinks the people in this thread need to learn about the concept of "positive liberty" and "negative liberty."

  16. #376
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    Default Re: Who is the final villain in One Piece? 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth View Post
    The crux is a massive world spanning conflict after finding One Piece, as foretold by Whitebeard. Thinking that either WG or Blackbeard will be utterly defeated before that is just silly.

    I didn't...deny that nor claim it? What are you on about? How did you go from my claim that Blackbeard will be the final villain to me claiming that the WG will not partake in the giant war after One Piece is found. What?

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth View Post
    Not if you read extended universe...

    Missing the point?

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth View Post
    Anyway, how is that in any way the same? One Piece is not nearly as black and white as Star Wars is (the original ones anyway) for it to be true.
    No, really missing the point?

    The whole underdog rebels vs the powerful beaurocracy is an age old story dating back to the frickin' Bible. Like this isn't even opinion as much as solid fact. And you're going on weird random tangents on how One Piece is so much more complex than Star Wars (which is true I guess) but has nothing to do with the original point and...what?

    I swear, is this what people go through everytime they take your bait?

  17. #377
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    Default Re: Who is the final villain in One Piece? 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by TLC View Post
    I didn't...deny that nor claim it? What are you on about? How did you go from my claim that Blackbeard will be the final villain to me claiming that the WG will not partake in the giant war after One Piece is found. What?
    Because if you want to claim Blackbeard being THE final villain, and not A final villain, then it quite obvious that unless everyone else unites against Blackbeard, that you must be at least assuming that the others will not be around when that happens, otherwise he would not be THE final villain, don't you think?

    I made logical assumption based on your wording. Was I incorrect? If so, I apologise.

    Quote Originally Posted by TLC View Post
    The whole underdog rebels vs the powerful beaurocracy is an age old story dating back to the frickin' Bible. Like this isn't even opinion as much as solid fact. And you're going on weird random tangents on how One Piece is so much more complex than Star Wars (which is true I guess) but has nothing to do with the original point and...what?
    See, I do understand the point, but you might not.

    You are saying that concept has been done, and is therefore inferior. But that is but a concept. The details is what matters here.

    The concept in and of itself has been done, but not in way Oda does it.

  18. #378
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    Default Re: Who is the final villain in One Piece? 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth View Post
    Because if you want to claim Blackbeard being THE final villain, and not A final villain, then it quite obvious that unless everyone else unites against Blackbeard, that you must be at least assuming that the others will not be around when that happens, otherwise he would not be THE final villain, don't you think?

    I made logical assumption based on your wording. Was I incorrect? If so, I apologise.
    Because the idea of him being the final villain and the WG being around in the end game are not mutually exclusive? There was absolutely nothing logical about your assumption.


    Quote Originally Posted by Darth View Post
    See, I do understand the point, but you might not.

    You are saying that concept has been done, and is therefore inferior. But that is but a concept. The details is what matters here.

    The concept in and of itself has been done, but not in way Oda does it.
    Again, missing the point...

    Of course execution matters and if Oda went that way, he could make it work well. But my original point which you seem to have a hard time grasping was between the tired done to death concept of small guy vs big guy and something more original like negative vs positive liberty, the latter is more original and therefore interesting. It also ties far stronger to the themes of dreams, both their positive and negative connotations which has always been a more pervasive theme in One Piece than Freedom vs Order.

    Also don't think I've forgotten your original post which was begging for examples of this concept like it's never been done before...

  19. #379
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    Default Re: Who is the final villain in One Piece? 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by TLC View Post
    Because the idea of him being the final villain and the WG being around in the end game are not mutually exclusive? There was absolutely nothing logical about your assumption.
    Okay, explain how those ideas are not mutually exclusive.

    Quote Originally Posted by TLC View Post
    Again, missing the point...

    Of course execution matters and if Oda went that way, he could make it work well. But my original point which you seem to have a hard time grasping was between the tired done to death concept of small guy vs big guy and something more original like negative vs positive liberty, the latter is more original and therefore interesting. It also ties far stronger to the themes of dreams, both their positive and negative connotations which has always been a more pervasive theme in One Piece than Freedom vs Order.

    Also don't think I've forgotten your original post which was begging for examples of this concept like it's never been done before...
    Because it's never been done before... in such a way. And negative vs positive liberty has been done to death as well, also dating it's beginning in ancient times. It is not that much more original, if you want to go that way.

  20. #380
    I Like Video Game Music hosemisnuba's Avatar
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    Default Re: Who is the final villain in One Piece? 2.0

    Quote Originally Posted by Darth View Post
    Okay, explain how those ideas are not mutually exclusive.



    Because it's never been done before... in such a way. And negative vs positive liberty has been done to death as well, also dating it's beginning in ancient times. It is not that much more original, if you want to go that way.
    Dating its beginnings in ancient times? Give me an example before the Rennaisance.

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