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Thread: Next Strawhat Crewmate (Vol. 6)

  1. #13561

    Default Re: Next Strawhat Crewmate (Vol. 6)

    Quote Originally Posted by stephen View Post
    Moriah is "Gekkou-moria," aka "koumori" or bat. He's not named after the gecko lizard.


  2. #13562

    Default Re: Next Strawhat Crewmate (Vol. 6)

    Quote Originally Posted by Artur View Post
    That for example is a good example in itself. The japanese version used "The Star Clown" (Senryo Doke), but was changed to "The Genius Jester" in the Viz version, even if it's a different meaning.

    I understand that Viz probably wants a more "adapted" translation, but I think that delivering the original experience is what should be done in a translation such as this.
    Adapting is a hard thing. I am not translator or anything, though.

    Like, Kuma. Kuma is literally bear. It doesnt refer to "bear" it IS "bear". So when a japanese reader reads his name, they are reading "Bartholomew Bear".
    Now we take this manga and publish it in the US. How will we adapt this? If his name is kept as Kuma, the regular reader who doesn't know japanese will never get what Oda was trying to convey. A note "Kuma means bear" could be placed there, but still the reader would not think of Bear each time he saw Kuma like a japanese reader will. In this case, by sticking to the original you are not translating the intention, the american reader will not have the same experience Oda intended for his reader to have when he named Kuma targeting a japanese audience.

    Also, regarding Weevil/Weeble, good find. But here is one thing, just because a character is named based on something doesn't mean his name has to be written the same. D.Gray-man has a character who is named after Aleister Crowley, his name is Arystar Krory. In katakana their names are the same, but romanized...
    Eustass Kid is a good One Piece example of that (based on Eustace and William Kidd).
    Have in mind that Oda is japanese, so it's unlikely that he will have other alphabets in mind when naming characters. The 7th Shichibukai was named after the toy or after the bug? Maybe after both! But his name is neither Weeble or Weevil, it's ウィーブル. In kana, what Oda uses, the name fits both, and that's what probably matters to him. How it will be romanized is probably just a secondary thing to be decided based on pure aesthetics.



    EDIT: Another thing, I think people are trying too hard to connect Shichibukai to animals. Yes, the original 7 (original as in they were the shichibukai when the manga started) are obviously based on animals and that is even part of their names (crocodile, flamingo, boa, kuma, jinbe, kou mori [wasn't aware of this one], hawk) but where is Teach's connection? Buggy? Law? None of the new Shichibukai were named after animals or had animal themes, so I don't think Weevil has to be just because he is a Shichibukai (still, I like the zoumushi possibility better than the others).
    Last edited by .access timeco.; October 7th, 2015 at 04:33 PM.

  3. #13563

    Default Re: Next Strawhat Crewmate (Vol. 6)

    Quote Originally Posted by .access timeco. View Post
    Adapting is a hard thing. I am not translator or anything, though.

    Like, Kuma. Kuma is literally bear. It doesnt refer to "bear" it IS "bear". So when a japanese reader reads his name, they are reading "Bartholomew Bear".
    Now we take this manga and publish it in the US. How will we adapt this? If his name is kept as Kuma, the regular reader who doesn't know japanese will never get what Oda was trying to convey. A note "Kuma means bear" could be placed there, but still the reader would not think of Bear each time he saw Kuma like a japanese reader will. In this case, by sticking to the original you are not translating the intention, the american reader will not have the same experience Oda intended for his reader to have when he named Kuma targeting a japanese audience.

    Also, regarding Weevil/Weeble, good find. But here is one thing, just because a character is named based on something doesn't mean his name has to be written the same. D.Gray-man has a character who is named after Aleister Crowley, his name is Arystar Krory. In katakana their names are the same, but romanized...
    Eustass Kid is a good One Piece example of that (based on Eustace and William Kidd).
    Have in mind that Oda is japanese, so it's unlikely that he will have other alphabets in mind when naming characters. The 7th Shichibukai was named after the toy or after the bug? Maybe after both! But his name is neither Weeble or Weevil, it's ウィーブル. In kana, what Oda uses, the name fits both, and that's what probably matters to him. How it will be romanized is probably just a secondary thing to be decided based on pure aesthetics.
    on a personal note,i always preferred the original name with note explaining the menaing/pun solution..it's less elegant but avoids that something get's lost in translation..bu i can understand someone might prefer a more complete adaptation..and it's probably what an editor ask to guys like stephen

  4. #13564

    Default Re: Next Strawhat Crewmate (Vol. 6)

    Not sure about Teach, that could just be something overlooked or considered unimportant. But Trafalgar Law starts with "tora" or tiger, which Oda made a little clearer when Luffy started calling him "Torao" (which I adapted to Traffy because there's no "o" in Trafalgar and it's meant to be something Luffy could remember). Buggy could be "bug" I suppose? Or maybe that falls under the same Blackbeard category. But unlike those characters who were introduced previously and then later fit into that mold, and therefore might not have an easy animal naming angle, this is a brand new character so it can easily fit into the pattern.

  5. #13565

    Default Re: Next Strawhat Crewmate (Vol. 6)

    Quote Originally Posted by stephen View Post
    Moriah is "Gekkou-moria," aka "koumori" or bat. He's not named after the gecko lizard.

    Why does his shape make a difference or invalidate the obvious animal connection? Are you going to claim that without a bounty poster we should say "Kurokodairu" because he doesn't literally look like a crocodile?

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---



    It's a pun, not a real place or reference. Listen to the podcast next week and you'll find out.
    This is why Stephen's translations have always been given the utmost respect. Bat, I never new that and it fits so much better!

    It's like any fans reaction to Little People and Dwarves right? I know everyone says Dwarves but it isn't the term being used not that?

    What Stephen puts down, I whole heartedly trust. The Wiki is the devil by and large, it's to easy for random contributors to add their interpretations to events, abilities or anything really.
    Folks who read One Piece... Just better people. \_(ツ)_/

  6. #13566

    Default Re: Next Strawhat Crewmate (Vol. 6)

    Quote Originally Posted by stephen View Post
    Moriah is "Gekkou-moria," aka "koumori" or bat. He's not named after the gecko lizard.
    Wow, thanks for pointing that out.

  7. #13567

    Default Re: Next Strawhat Crewmate (Vol. 6)

    Quote Originally Posted by RomanceDawn View Post

    It's like any fans reaction to Little People and Dwarves right? I know everyone says Dwarves but it isn't the term being used not that?
    Little People or Dwarfs is the correct translation. They're definitely not Tolkien Dwarves.

    The Wiki is the devil by and large, it's to easy for random contributors to add their interpretations to events, abilities or anything really.
    Gotta love Monet and Vergo being "confirmed" dead, as well as Sabo and Doflamingo before they were "revealed" to be alive.

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  8. #13568

    Default Re: Next Strawhat Crewmate (Vol. 6)

    Quote Originally Posted by stephen View Post
    Moriah is "Gekkou-moria," aka "koumori" or bat. He's not named after the gecko lizard.
    Are you sure that it ain't both gecko and bat ?
    Moria did turn his shadow into a gecko to finish Oars Jr.

  9. #13569
    Sweet Christmas Blowfish's Avatar
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    Default Re: Next Strawhat Crewmate (Vol. 6)

    Quote Originally Posted by sinreturns View Post
    When a boat is sailing it becomes a lucus for the interaction of two elements and two forces. The two elements are air and water. Jinbe's element is water and he has great judgement and plenty of experience sailing in the New World which is another thing that is essential for a driver. The coming together of these two forces is felt by the helmsmen Nami can feel the pressure of the wind and guide the crew clear of unexpected storms and Jinbe could feel the motion of the boat in the water. The skillful helmsman understands the forces and by controlling their interaction he navigates the fastest and straightest passage through the water on his intended course.

    Jesus Burgess just happens to be the Sternhandler/Helmsmen for Black Beard. Not sure if Oda took inspiration from the Bible or not but St. Matthew 8:23 says that Jesus often boarded a boat "and when he got into the boat his disciples followed him" Jesus walked upon the surface of the waters and was able to command the wind and the sea.

    Fishmen Island Arc had Noah and we learned about the promise Joy Boy made. Maybe there could be another connection with Noah/Jinbe's dream/and his official position? IMHO Being a Helmsmen to me is more symbolic.

    Nami has history with Fishman, namely Arlong. Jinbe also happens to have history with Arlong. Usually the Navigator would have to have good communication with the Helmsmen since both positions are closely working on getting the crew where the captain wants to go. I would like to see Nami and Jinbe become the ultimate team when it comes to taking the ship where Luffy wants to..it would be great character development in the long run. This would also show how much trust Franky has in Jinbe since he would be letting someone else take the wheel with confidence. Franky also has history with fishmen since his mentor Tom was one.

    A lifeguard would be a secondary role since it would only be necessary to save a devil fruit user when they are overboard..The role is a bit less interactive than what I imagine an Official Helmsmen to be.

    We have never seen a pirate ship that had a Lifeguard..it is a secondary role most of the time. Why have someone like Jinbe who is more than capable of taking a role like Helmsmen be a full time Lifeguard instead?

    I've mentioned in a previous post that Jinbe would be more like a Maritime Pilot who handles the ship during dangerous waters..The work functions of the pilot go back to Ancient Greece and Roman times, when locally experienced harbour captains, mainly local fishermen, were employed by incoming ships' captains to bring their trading vessels into port safely. so he doesn't have to be driving 24/7 But would be the go to guy when it matters most
    .
    Dude, Ive always thought Jinbe would be their Helmsmen the moment I saw him doing it after they stole the marine ship at Impel Down but the bold is verbatim why I think Jinbe will be the official Helmsmen of the Strawhats. Especially the part about Jinbe, Nami, Franky and Arlong. It's like everything comes full circle.

    People always wanna make it seem like Jinbe's position on the staff has to correlate to his dream , but this was not the case for Brook. He's not trying to be the best Musician ever, he's just trying to reunite with an old friend, except he's taking the long way around. I feel like at his core Jinbe's desire for strong relations between human and fishman will come down to how he really feels about humans before he met Luffy of course. Of course his stance is less extreme than that of Hody or Arlong , but deep down Jinbe probably still holds a grudge against humans because of what happened to Tiger, or maybe even something further back in his youth.

    The adventure with the crew will probably be just as much a peace of mind for Jinbe as it will be for the world at large when they see the famous Fishman Pirate , Jinbe apart of the young upstart's crew who's been making the most waves in the New Age of Pirates
    Last edited by Blowfish; October 8th, 2015 at 02:40 AM.

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  10. #13570

    Default Re: Next Strawhat Crewmate (Vol. 6)

    I must say, I'm pretty curious about this Raizou guy that we're going to be meeting pretty soon.

    With his whole ninja shtick, we're probably going to get a fairly unique design that'll be unlike any of the current SH members (then again there could be hundreds of similar ninjas in Wano).

    His role as a comrade of Kin and Kan shows that he's also willing to leave Wano, which seems to be a fairly major issue for members of that remote and isolated nation, fighting off the rest of the world.

    Basically, Raizou seems like he could possess all the same pro- nakama qualities that Kin has, but without the drawbacks that we know about (obviously, very provisional).

    Coupled with how everything seems to be kicking off in The New World after Doffy's defeat, I imagine we'll be seeing our final 2 nakama sooner rather than later.

    With Big Mom's tea party having happened over the time it took Luffy and Co to get to Zou, Jinbei may be freed up sooner than we thought, and with all the allusions to him being the tenth nakama, we'll probably be seeing the ninth fairly soon (since Oda said they would join in concurrent arcs I believe?)

    It's all very vague as it stands, but I'll be very interested to see Raizou, and not only because of his connection to Kin, Kan and Momo.
    "Now! This is it! Now is the time to choose! Die and be free of pain or live and fight your sorrow! Now is the time to shape your stories! Your fate is in your hands!" - Auron


  11. #13571

    Default Re: Next Strawhat Crewmate (Vol. 6)

    Quote Originally Posted by RamistaR View Post
    Are you sure that it ain't both gecko and bat ?
    Moria did turn his shadow into a gecko to finish Oars Jr.
    yeah,it probably has both
    but his post was made to justify why it is localized as gekkou moria and not gecko moria..since earlier he said that weeble should be weevil since it's his animal reference (more than the weeble toys that don't think they had in japan..i'm in italy and i have never heard of them)

  12. #13572

    Default Re: Next Strawhat Crewmate (Vol. 6)

    I wouldn't jump in the raizo train just yet, we should have gotten a silhouette with the name drop, even if we meet him next chapter.
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  13. #13573

    Default Re: Next Strawhat Crewmate (Vol. 6)

    Quote Originally Posted by maxterdexter View Post
    I wouldn't jump in the raizo train just yet, we should have gotten a silhouette with the name drop, even if we meet him next chapter.
    Meh, as it stands I'm just perusing the train times.

    It may be a viable travelling option or it might derail spectacularly.

    I can't wait.
    "Now! This is it! Now is the time to choose! Die and be free of pain or live and fight your sorrow! Now is the time to shape your stories! Your fate is in your hands!" - Auron


  14. #13574
    Hells Memories Kishido's Avatar
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    Default Re: Next Strawhat Crewmate (Vol. 6)

    I still want to know when Oda came up with the idea of Raizou being a ninja and rectoned his words from 700.

  15. #13575
    Discovered Stowaway Artur's Avatar
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    Default Re: Next Strawhat Crewmate (Vol. 6)

    Quote Originally Posted by stephen View Post
    Moriah is "Gekkou-moria," aka "koumori" or bat. He's not named after the gecko lizard.

    Why does his shape make a difference or invalidate the obvious animal connection? Are you going to claim that without a bounty poster we should say "Kurokodairu" because he doesn't literally look like a crocodile?

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---



    It's a pun, not a real place or reference. Listen to the podcast next week and you'll find out.
    Yeah I did know about the Koumori reference, as @Maju says, it's quite mindblowing
    However, Moriah has a double animal reference. Certain Geckos often inflate their neck to grow new skin and release the old one. During Shadow's Asgard Moriah himself performs exactly the same stance where he inflates his neck and holds himself on four feet, like a Gecko.

    What I'm saying is that Weeble seems much closer to Weeble than Weevil. My reasonings for it were this:
    1. Weeble is a toy brand in the exact shape of Edward himself.
    2. Usually I've always heard americans pronounce it like "Uibil" rather than "Uiibil", and Weeble sounded phonetically closer to the katakana
    3. According to a cinematography book owned by my grandpa (yep, this is very old) in certain very very old american sitcom there was a character named Weeble (after the word feeble) which was considered "mama's boy", and who was a crybaby that always relied on his grandma

    Please, don't take this as an insult! All I am interested in is discovering the correct translation Oda would choose

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Actually that's very simple. Japanese actor Ichikawa Raizo played a role of a ninja in the famous old japanese movie "Shinobi no Mono"
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ichikawa_Raiz%C5%8D_VIII

  16. #13576

    Default Re: Next Strawhat Crewmate (Vol. 6)

    Quote Originally Posted by Artur View Post
    Yeah I did know about the Koumori reference, as @Maju says, it's quite mindblowing
    However, Moriah has a double animal reference. Certain Geckos often inflate their neck to grow new skin and release the old one. During Shadow's Asgard Moriah himself performs exactly the same stance where he inflates his neck and holds himself on four feet, like a Gecko.

    What I'm saying is that Weeble seems much closer to Weeble than Weevil. My reasonings for it were this:
    1. Weeble is a toy brand in the exact shape of Edward himself.
    2. Usually I've always heard americans pronounce it like "Uibil" rather than "Uiibil", and Weeble sounded phonetically closer to the katakana
    3. According to a cinematography book owned by my grandpa (yep, this is very old) in certain very very old american sitcom there was a character named Weeble (after the word feeble) which was considered "mama's boy", and who was a crybaby that always relied on his grandma

    Please, don't take this as an insult! All I am interested in is discovering the correct translation Oda would choose

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Actually that's very simple. Japanese actor Ichikawa Raizo played a role of a ninja in the famous old japanese movie "Shinobi no Mono"
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ichikawa_Raizō_VIII
    yeah,but we don't even know if those toys ever came to japan
    also,i googled them and they are just kinda egg shaped..they don't really resemble weevil that much..not more than other kinda obese people we saw in onepiece..if anything from behind weevil resembles a gengar
    Quote Originally Posted by Kishido View Post
    I still want to know when Oda came up with the idea of Raizou being a ninja and rectoned his words from 700.
    well,kanjurou initially was a monk if we have to go by his initial silhouette..so he probably changed idea multiple times about how different those guys were.
    also one guy in the chapter thread said that there have been some cases of samurais that doubled as ninjas too

  17. #13577
    Hells Memories Kishido's Avatar
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    Default Re: Next Strawhat Crewmate (Vol. 6)

    Quote Originally Posted by Maju View Post
    kanjurou initially was a monk if we have to go by his initial silhouette..so he probably changed idea multiple times about how different those guys were.
    also one guy in the chapter thread said that there have been some cases of samurais that doubled as ninjas too
    Well but he at least is a Samurai...

    It's somehow strange that Oda called them 3 samurais and now suddenly a ninja... But whatever... Ninjas for the win.

    Hope for some Kunoichis or Onna-bugeishas in Wano

  18. #13578

    Default Re: Next Strawhat Crewmate (Vol. 6)

    Quote Originally Posted by Blowfish View Post
    Dude, Ive always thought Jinbe would be their Helmsmen the moment I saw him doing it after they stole the marine ship at Impel Down but the bold is verbatim why I think Jinbe will be the official Helmsmen of the Strawhats. Especially the part about Jinbe, Nami, Franky and Arlong. It's like everything comes full circle.

    People always wanna make it seem like Jinbe's position on the staff has to correlate to his dream , but this was not the case for Brook. He's not trying to be the best Musician ever, he's just trying to reunite with an old friend, except he's taking the long way around. I feel like at his core Jinbe's desire for strong relations between human and fishman will come down to how he really feels about humans before he met Luffy of course. Of course his stance is less extreme than that of Hody or Arlong , but deep down Jinbe probably still holds a grudge against humans because of what happened to Tiger, or maybe even something further back in his youth.

    The adventure with the crew will probably be just as much a peace of mind for Jinbe as it will be for the world at large when they see the famous Fishman Pirate , Jinbe apart of the young upstart's crew who's been making the most waves in the New Age of Pirates
    Jinbe's overarching goals can correlate nicely just based on the fact that he would be joining Luffy, regardless of what his position is. I agree that Jinbe's core desire is for there to be strong relations between humans and fishman. He might have made a promise to Ace to watch over Luffy but that isn't his dream. I feel every single straw hat crew member "watches over Luffy". Watching out for each other is just part of being a good friend/nakama.

    I could see the connection with Brook being a musician and his dream of meeting Laboon. He did mention that he wants to bring the last recording of Rumble Pirates to Laboon.

    Hope that Jinbe made it to Zou or will be together with the crew for the Wano Country arc. There was plenty of time for him to go to Dressrosa and find out where Luffy went..he could have even gotten a piece of Luffy's Vivre card from Leo. Bart's ship took a long time to get to Zou as well since they didn't have a navigator and Zou was slowly moving away(probably making their overall traveling distance longer).

    I am expecting the next Nakama to join after Wano Country.

  19. #13579

    Default Re: Next Strawhat Crewmate (Vol. 6)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kishido View Post
    I still want to know when Oda came up with the idea of Raizou being a ninja and rectoned his words from 700.
    If Oda is half as diligent about his research regarding his own culture as he is towards other cultures, then he probably knows that historically, a "ninja" was just a soldier operating in stealth. Like a black ops soldier, they are still soldiers, they just happen to do some dirty stuff on the side due to necessity. Raizou could be a samurai, who is also a ninja. The two are not exclusive to one another.

    Thinking back, Kinemon saw Robin's arm stuff and thought she was a ninja, right? Same with Nami's weather manipulation. Maybe that's an indication towards what Raizou's abilities will be like.
    May you live in interesting times.
    May you attract the attention of those above you.
    ~Two ancient Chinese curses.

  20. #13580

    Default Re: Next Strawhat Crewmate (Vol. 6)

    Quote Originally Posted by Artur View Post
    1. Weeble is a toy brand in the exact shape of Edward himself.
    Like many others in this thread have already said:
    1. We don't know if those were ever even in Japan
    2. Weevil doesn't look like the toy as much as you say he does.
    It makes more sense for Oda to follow a naming convention he has used in the past than to make a reference to an obscure American toy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Artur View Post
    3. According to a cinematography book owned by my grandpa (yep, this is very old) in certain very very old american sitcom there was a character named Weeble (after the word feeble) which was considered "mama's boy", and who was a crybaby that always relied on his grandma
    You can't be serious. This is "My uncle who works for Nintendo" tier. You can't even bother to give us the name of the book or the sitcom? I'm sorry "It's in the book my grandpa owns, I swear" is not a good way to support your argument. Besides, why would Oda, a Japanese man born in the mid-70's, EVER reference an old obscure American sitcom that you can't even bother to give us the name of?

    Call me crazy, but I'm gonna side with the guy who is a professional translator, has been translating the series for years, and puts in tons of research to make sure he is providing the most accurate translation possible.

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