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Thread: James Bond Thread

  1. #81

    Default Re: James Bond Thread

    I like Goldeneye but maybe that'll change once I actually get around to watching Skyfall.
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  2. #82

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    Skyfall was alright, but coming in after quantum makes anything look good.

    But the only true answer to greatest Bond movie ever is the first one with Richard Kiel.

  3. #83

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    Poor Quantum, it got so wrecked by that writer's strike. You could tell they were making a great movie, and then one of the main pillars of moviemaking just fell out from under them.

    Skyfall I've only seen once, when it came out.
    Need to rewatch it.

    But I do think Craig is the best Bond.

    Honestly I think Brosnan is mostly pretty bad, ranks down there with Moore.

    Connery is great of course, Lazenby underrated.

    Dalton confused.

  4. #84

    Default Re: James Bond Thread

    Oh, so this is were this post ended.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jameswuds View Post

    Hehe racism... You're not gonna find a bigger Idris Elba fan than me, period. I'm just saying that Sony looks ridicolous in this case and that Idris Elba would not be good for the Bond franchise and that's evident by the fact that even speculating on the issue causes turmoil.

    I'll balance this out by saying this:
    if somebody would recast Stringer Bell as a white guy in some reboot of The Wire I would be really mad. Is that also racist?


    Uh, i don't get how "Turmoil" is valid for Idris Elba not being James Bond.

    I...actually don't get how the Reboot from the Wire is balancing things out. I actually don't get what you tried to say there.
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  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey King View Post
    DIt is in fact pretty damn good. Lazenby should have been the 70's Bond and not Moore, but he had to go and ruin his career with hippying out or whatever.

    Best Bond though is either Casino Royale or From Russia With Love.
    The funny thing is at the time of their releases OHMSS was hated by movie goers and critics, and Moonraker was loved by them. Funny how as time moved OHMSS is consider done of the best Bond movies and Moonraker (and Roger Moore's era in general) is considered to be bottom of the barrel.

  6. #86

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    Well at the time, the switch from Connery was goign to create backlash no matter who took the role... and the movie also toned down on the wacky gadgets.

    Now that there's been like 23 films worth of wacky gadgets, the more extreme stuff feels boring and overplayed, and its easier to appreciate the more low-key stuff.
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  7. #87

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    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey King View Post
    Best Bond though is either Casino Royale or From Russia With Love.
    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey King View Post
    But I do think Craig is the best Bond.
    Agreed! I have to say Daniel Craig's Bond resurrected my interest in the franchise.



    What does everyone think about Craig's statement on Austin Powers?

  8. #88

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Adler View Post
    The funny thing is at the time of their releases OHMSS was hated by movie goers and critics, and Moonraker was loved by them. Funny how as time moved OHMSS is consider done of the best Bond movies and Moonraker (and Roger Moore's era in general) is considered to be bottom of the barrel.
    I strongly feel the same will happened to Brosnan's era.
    Aside from Goldeneye of course, which kicks ass.
    Yeah sure everyone hates Die Another Day (as they should) but World Is Not Enough and Tomorrow Never Dies are like slightly improved Moore films.
    Brosnan is better than Moore, but only in that he looks and sounds the part better. He's plastic otherwise.

    Butttttttttt I will say this for Moore.
    That Live and Let Die is actually fun as cheese.
    And that The Spy Who Loved Me is a great Bond movie that feels way out of place between KUNG FU BOND and RETARDED SPACE BOND.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Vectorkov View Post
    Agreed! I have to say Daniel Craig's Bond resurrected my interest in the franchise.



    What does everyone think about Craig's statement on Austin Powers?
    Played a role sure.
    But I marathoned the whole series recently in chronological order, and ever since the 70's the series has been in "REBOOT" mode all the time as a franchise.

    Moore's 80's films are dull crap where the series basically died.
    Dalton's movies are attempts at franchise revival, failed at it.
    Brosnan's movies were attempts at franchise revival, succeeded at first, then flamed out.
    Craig's movies are the THIRD revival attempt, and a waaaaaay more substantial one than Brosnan's.

    So this is a process that has clearly been going on since the mid-80's before Mike Myers had anything to say about it.

    Honestly I think 9-11 kind of played a role in the Craig movies.
    Like the Brosnan era was very 90's in the sense that it was a less serious benign world (or so the West thought). The Cold War was over and a certain lack of seriousness snuck into the movies again in a way that eventually killed them off.
    Goldeneye was the only one that riffed off the post-Cold War thing with it's setting, and surprise it was interesting and good!

    I think after Barbara Broccoli let 9-11 really sink in she knew the series really had to sober up. Sober up like the West had.

  9. #89
    The Album Guy Nobodyman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey King View Post
    Butttttttttt I will say this for Moore.
    That Live and Let Die is actually fun as cheese.
    And it's got Baron Samedi which almost redeems the whole thing

  10. #90
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    Default Re: James Bond Thread

    Isn't Die another day the one with the whiteface Korean? Yeah, that was bad. I've only seen of the Brosnan and Craig era. I like low key dark Craig. Casino Royale is pretty fucking fantastic. QS is blegh. Skyfall is much better but overrated.

  11. #91
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    Craig got me into the Bond films. I thought Casino Royale was good but I think Skyfall is my favorite. A much better villain makes for a better movie. I expect a lot from Christoper Waltz.

  12. #92

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    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey King View Post


    Oh ok so you were one of those massive huge idiots. Gotcha lol.
    (seriously why would anyone admit to being one of those people, history has dumped you in the trash, quietly move on and hope we forgot about you)
    Wow, that was totally rude and uncalled for.


    -



    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey King View Post
    I dunno, would you rather be racist or insanely stupidly obsessed with a (bullshit to begin with) physical appearance of a character who has changed six or so times anyway.


    Why are you comparing a British secret agent's race....to the race of a black American crime gang lieutenant in a story heavily interested in socioeconomic issues, whose character is heavily into Black Power and Afro-centric stuff.

    lol
    I compare it because I felt the need to reassure the person in question that it wasn't an issue of discrimination against blacks.

  13. #93

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    Personally I think Craig is a great actor, but not a great Bond. And it doesn't help when the source material is weak. Honestly I think Casino Royale is one of the worst Bond films because it accomplishes nothing that Bond really stands for. It's about... a super intense Texas Hold 'em match... to catch a money launderer? Where the coolest gadget in the entire film is a car defibrillator? What a joke. It did have some good scenes though. And Quantum of Solace is just a pile of excrement viewed in any light, so anything looks good next to that.

    I really didn't like Skyfall when I first saw it. But people have since convinced me that it's a rather beautiful love letter to the franchise and a symbol of its rebirth, with a lot of interesting references. So I respect it for that. But on its own it's not that great. And the entire final act is so tacked on.

  14. #94

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    Quote Originally Posted by TLC View Post
    Isn't Die another day the one with the whiteface Korean? Yeah, that was bad. I've only seen of the Brosnan and Craig era. I like low key dark Craig. Casino Royale is pretty fucking fantastic. QS is blegh. Skyfall is much better but overrated.
    Whiteface? No it's even dumber.
    It's a Korean guy who undergoes plastic surgery to literally be made to look European so it's a totally different actor.

    The strangest thing about Die Another Day is that it actually starts out really cool with a strong premise.
    And then shits the bed in every possible way roughly around the time Halle Barry walks on screen onward.

    Most tragically wasted premise though continues to be The Man With the Golden Gun.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jameswuds View Post
    Wow, that was totally rude and uncalled for.
    That's why I'm shocked you admitted it lol.

    I compare it because I felt the need to reassure the person in question that it wasn't an issue of discrimination against blacks.
    So then it was pointless pedanticism unrelated even to the actual history of the character?

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Foolio View Post
    Personally I think Craig is a great actor, but not a great Bond.
    Perfect Bond honestly. He combines the best things about most of the past actors. The edge and smug charm of Connery, the physicality of Lazenby, and the intensity of Dalton. Like what Dalton was trying to do but largely failed at for various reasons.
    All the Bonds have been so different, including single Bonds over their career that I always have to question what people even mean by "Being Bond".
    Honestly I think Casino Royale is one of the worst Bond films because it accomplishes nothing that Bond really stands for.
    What does Bond stand for.
    Secret bases? Intense Cold War subterfuge in a neutral city? Train rides with a hidden enemy? Investigating...gold fraud? Swimming? Diamond scams? Alpine breeding programs? Kung fu? Blaxploitation? Space? Star crossed love stories? Recovering sunken gizmos? Christoper Walken? Political refugee love stories and helping Osama Bin Laden? Killing Scarface? Post-Cold War commentary in fights against a traitor? Fighting against Rupert Murdoch? Vengeful heiresses? Ice palaces?
    It's about... a super intense Texas Hold 'em match... to catch a money launderer?
    And Goldfinger's plot stems from basically tracing counterfeit gold. What's your point?
    Premise only matters as much as the actual way it's carried out. Man With The Golden Gun had an awesome premise that was mostly just crap in practice. And they even pointlessly gave Scaramanga a supervillain plot for no reason because I guess that was "correct Bond".
    Where the coolest gadget in the entire film is a car defibrillator? What a joke.
    Gosh you must really hate Dr No and From Russia With Love.
    If crazy gizmos are the hallmark of good Bond than by golly let's worship Die Another Day and Moonraker.

  15. #95

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    Yup. Bond is about outlandish villains and outlandish spies, basically. You totally missed the point by trying to list specific themes. Infiltrating and irradiating Fort Knox is a lot more supervillainy than laundering money through the most boring casino game ever conceived. Early Bond was VERY campy and cheesy. Although Dr. No, as the first film, does in fact leave a lot to be desired. Though let's be honest, a portable Geiger counter at the time is at least as interesting as a car defibrillator.

    As the series progressed it got more big-budget, and started to take itself somewhat more seriously, but almost never lost the theme of crazy villains, crazy henchmen, and crazy gadgets (and awful one-liners). With a few snorefests (On Her Majesty's Secret Service, anyone?). Honestly if it's just going to be regular action suspense flicks, nothing makes it special in any way. There are plenty of those around. Give me a henchman who throws his hat at people and a character called Pussy Galore over that any day. Hell, Sean Connery in Entrapment is a better "Bond film" than Casino Royale.

    Execution is still what matters at the end of the day and I mean I'm not saying I think all old(er?) Bond films are even great lol. And like, Die Another Day satisfied the supervillain theme with giant space mirror, and still sucked.

    And I didn't say there was a set definition of what Bond is, just that I don't think Craig fits the role well. That's just my opinion. Like all of this. And it's kind of hilarious for you to attack me so hard for my opinion, which really isn't going to change. If you don't think Bond should be about outlandishness then we just have a fundamental disagreement about where the franchise should go.

  16. #96

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    Quote Originally Posted by Foolio View Post
    Yup. Bond is about outlandish villains and outlandish spies, basically.
    So Moore is the golden age of Bond and the first two Bond movies that established a fuck ton are not Bond movies?
    Actually I take that back because Moore himself was not outlandish....this is aided by the fact that no Bond could really be desribed as outlandish except Lazenby's frilly dress suit thing.
    You totally missed the point by trying to list specific themes.
    I'm listing tons of different premises, many which sound silly or dull in quick driveby descriptions to people who have never seen the movies.
    Selling Casino Royale as "a poker game" is missing the point.
    Infiltrating and irradiating Fort Knox is a lot more supervillainy than laundering money through the most boring casino game ever conceived.
    Early Bond was VERY campy and cheesy.
    No it wasn't.
    The first two are very very straight-forward aside from one thing or two. They are not campy nor cheesy, let alone very.
    From Russia With Love especially is a very sober movie with virtually nothing camp in it.
    Goldfinger and Thunderball are also lacking in camp. Things got more fantastical bit by bit until the volcano base in You Only Live Twice.
    But really the entire 60's was fairly toned down in camp and cheese including Lazenby's film.
    The camp and cheese arrived with the 70's with Diamonds and kept getting worse with each new film, with the exception of The Spy Who Loved Me.
    Then it kind of went away again over the course of the 80's, especially the Dalton films. On into Goldeneye. Then the camp and cheese came back really suddenly with Die Another Day.
    People have really funny memories and ideas about how things "were".
    Although Dr. No, as the first film, does in fact leave a lot to be desired. Though let's be honest, a portable Geiger counter at the time is at least as interesting as a car defibrillator.
    Dr No is indeed fairly dull, but Connery is awesome just to watch because the character itself is so great. Dr No is also a cool character, which is too bad since he's underused in his own named movie.
    From Russia With Love is an incredible movie though. The entire train sequence in the second half is the best slow burning villain hero showdown in the entire series.
    As the series progressed it got more big-budget,
    Yes.
    and started to take itself somewhat more seriously,
    No.
    The Moore and Brosnan era's both became self parodies that refused to take themselves seriously at points.
    Watching from Dr No to The Man With the Golden Gun is really surreal, as you can clearly feel the series going from "serious action suspense" to "cartoon".
    I'd end that with Moonraker but again, Spy Who Loved Me fucks that slide up.
    The 80's Moore films feel like they're desperately trying to be taken more seriously AFTER the series had already slid into cartoon territory. They are however not good at all.
    In fact after Die Another Day and Moonraker I'd say the worst Bond is For Your Eyes Only. Because it's dull as FUCK. It's the biggest failure of trying to take Bond more seriously and down to earth in the franchise.
    What we have from that is that no it's not the cheese and camp that makes Bond, but it's not seriouzness and realizm either. Moonraker and Eyes Only are the double major fuck up in a row that shows the Bond people just forgetting what mattered in both regards.

    I think a better word than camp or cheese is "style". Bond has to have style. Yeah, there is totally a shallow element that makes it such a fun series. I just disagree on which shallow element. What does work in Dr No is alllll in just the cool ass cold charm of Connery (likewise Dr No is a cool villain for similar reasons minus the charm).
    It's the reason people still worship Connery. That style. It's absolutely integral. It's even the reason people are thinking of Idris Elba. Not because WE NEED BLACK MAN. But because "hey look a black guy who is super Bondish, wouldn't it be neat to use him?".
    but almost never lost the theme of crazy villains, crazy henchmen, and crazy gadgets (and awful one-liners).
    But crazy how? Wacky crazy? Creepy crazy? Or even realistic crazy? Lots of the villains aren't even crazy so much as their plan is crazy.
    Moonraker is the craziest of all, but Drax is like...really vanilla and boring. The German shark guy from Loved Me has a silly base and big plan...but he's really just a german guy who sits behind a desk. Even the Christopher Walken character was (sadly) not all that crazy acting.

    The difference between most of these guys and Le Chiffre is ONLY their villainous plot and not their actual personality and even appearance.
    Most Bond villains are actually cold and reserved, not crazy. Henchmen vary incredibly.
    Like crazy you mean immortal voodoo god? Or just a really nasty dude.
    Or how about Jaws...stupid goofy cartoon tall strong man? Or genuinely creepy assassin with metal teeth?
    With a few snorefests (On Her Majesty's Secret Service, anyone?).
    It had Blofeld, an Alpine peak base, some super camp in the form of the radioactive harem or whatever that was, and a final battle with two dudes on a slalom.
    Yet it doesn't pass the camp test?
    That movie owns.
    Honestly if it's just going to be regular action suspense flicks, nothing makes it special in any way.
    Aside from it's incredibly distinct atmosphere and style?
    Give me a henchman who throws his hat at people
    Whose boss is just a fat orange haired guy.
    and a character called Pussy Galore over that any day.
    Tell us about the actual character with whom that name is attached, because she is one of the most simultaneously boring and dumb Bond girls in the franchise.
    Also she sound like Katherine Hepburn. Hubba hubba.
    And I didn't say there was a set definition of what Bond is, just that I don't think Craig fits the role well. That's just my opinion. Like all of this. And it's kind of hilarious for you to attack me so hard for my opinion, which really isn't going to change.
    Yeah it's hilarious of me to do that thing I always do.

  17. #97

    Default Re: James Bond Thread

    If you're going to get into semantics like that, then I'd say that the books written by the original author are "real Bond", and the movies that stayed closest to those are the ones to consider "real Bond".

    In which case, Casino Royale as THE FIRST BOND BOOK EVER WRITTEN, and that actually stayed fairly faithful to the book instead of going in crazy directions, most certainly counts. Hell, its even been adapted twice!

    It's like trying to discredit the first Tarzan, Conan, John Carter, or Sherlock Holmes stories. The very earliest stories may not have had all the elements that the franchise eventually became famous for, but that doesn't mean they aren't authentic or true to the source.

    Or perhaps, a better example might be pointing at "Tik-Tok of Oz" or "Rinktink in Oz", and making a case about how those are the epitome of what Wizard of Oz are about. Except all anyone ever knows is the very first book that the movie was based off of, out of 14 books. But just because the original first book is the most well known doesn't mean the others aren't just as good or better or that the one most well known example says everything there is to say about the characters and the world, so you probably have never even heard of Regos and Coregos or Nikobob or Dorothy's kitten, Eureka. But hey, Glinda and the Wicked Witch of the West and munchkins and lions/tiger/bears/oh my are everything Oz is about because thats whats saturated the pop culture!


    Aside from that, Bond has had a ton of variety over the *decades* anyway, so its like trying to say "there's only one proper Batman style" or "one proper Ninja Turtles". It changes with the era and has tons of permutations.


    Austin Powers wasn't being clever when it spoofed Bond, Bond itself had reached that point and realized it several times over, which is why they dialed back several times over the years.

    The current outings almost certainly owe to Jason Bourne quite a bit, but NO, Bond is NOT all about the gadgets and crazy villains, that's just what it slowly escalated to, and what the 22 minute cartoon parodies go for when they're making fun of because its an easy target.

    What you're actually thinking of is Get Smart, which consistently had a Shoe Phone and a robot named Hymie.

    Quote Originally Posted by Foolio View Post
    With a few snorefests (On Her Majesty's Secret Service, anyone?)
    Your opinion is 100% irrelevant. MSS is one of the BEST Bond films (and my personal favorite). Great setpieces, action, character development, actual romantic chemistry, fantastic ending, great song? It generally falls in the top five on most lists nowadays now that history has has time to settle it a bit.

    It may not be what *you* look for in a Bond outing, but what you're naming certainly isn't everything about the franchise either.
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  18. #98

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    Oh my god, it's like people actually have differing opinions! I didn't come in here and try to attack anyone's views. Just presenting my own. OHMSS is the only Bond movie I actually turned off because I was bored. I don't give enough of a shit to reply at length to either of you. Pretty much said what I had to say already lol. Disagree all you want.

  19. #99
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    Default Re: James Bond Thread

    I'll go on record saying that OHMSS didn't do too much for me either. I mean, it's not bad, it certainly has its moments (that ending), and it's a perfectly serviceable Bond film, but I honestly do recall it being one of my more tedious Bond-viewing experiences.

    What's really weird though is that I wasn't that interested in From Russia With Love either. I don't know why, but I just couldn't get into that movie.

    Maybe they'll be better on a second viewing, but the first time around they just didn't do it for me.

  20. #100

    Default Re: James Bond Thread

    Its not "your opinion is wrong." You can like or dislike whatever you want.

    But in this case, "your facts are wrong."

    James Bond has quite clearly been many different things over the years over many different media, there isn't one definitive version of the character or just one defining aspect.

    Is Batman a campy law abiding do-gooder with a red phone, trusty ward and shark repellent? Is he a detective? A ladies man? Is he dark and brooding? Is he violent and grim? A ninja? Part of an ensemble of a super team? Just smart or super genius that's preplanned for everything? Is he willing to use guns or kill? Does he use a bat credit card or go dancing? Does he wear blue and grey? Or all black? Does he have bat-nipples? Is Joker a prankster sprayed in some chemicals that tries to get revenge for a boner, a rastafarian kung fu master,a homicidal maniac that cut open his face that kills thousands at a go, or a fairless joyless and dull guy played by Brent Spiner?

    Part of the reason a character like that can endure is because it changes and reshapes as time goes by and it has been a lot of things, not just one particular thing.
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