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Thread: Disney animation thread

  1. #7261

    Default Re: Disney animation thread

    Disney only spends money when they want to build their empire and notoriety.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiq View Post
    I've often wondered about that myself; seems like being supported by people who only want you there so the world can end in fire (with you going to Hell in the process) would be somewhat off-putting
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  2. #7262

    Default Re: Disney animation thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Green_vs_Red View Post
    Disney only spends money when they want to build their empire and notoriety.
    It was DONE though. They might have to go back in and redo some music timing cues or something, but that 12 minutes of footage already exists in finished form, it was already screened once upon a time and its what the storybook used to get its material from.

    And the Disney archive doesn't burn anything. Some really old stuff naturally degraded a bit till it got cleaned up, but the vault should still have everything.

    So the finished version (or 99% finished) should just already be THERE, waiting to be a bonus feature/selling point on a new release. Just slap a PG-13 rating on the extended version and call it a day.

    When Cauldron came out Pg-13 rating has only existed for like a month, so when the original footage was screened it would have gotten an R, which yeah, not going to happen. They've had lots of PG-13 animated films since though.
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  3. #7263

    Default Re: Disney animation thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post
    Black Cauldron would probably be better if Katzenberg hadn't insisted they cut 12 minutes from the run time, due to not understanding that unlike live action, you dont get B footage to play with and get alternate takes.

    The team did what they could and trimmed six minutes, than Katz went in and cut even more.
    Something horrible being traced back to Katzenberg. What a shock.

    Also, one of the weirdest things about the movie is that the opening narration says the Black Cauldron is a prison for an evil king, but then never follows up on that. At first I thought the Horned King was the evil king, but no, I guess he's just someone else entirely. And then the Black Cauldron just turns people into zombies. What?

  4. #7264
    Button Pusher Shift's Avatar
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    Default Re: Disney animation thread

    Frozen II soundtrack is officially out.

    The vocal songs:
    Spoiler:

















    The cover versions:
    Spoiler:







    And quite a few cut songs, apparently:
    Spoiler:










    Last edited by Shift; November 21st, 2019 at 02:00 AM.



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  5. #7265

    Default Re: Disney animation thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Nobodyman View Post
    Also, one of the weirdest things about the movie is that the opening narration says the Black Cauldron is a prison for an evil king, but then never follows up on that. At first I thought the Horned King was the evil king, but no, I guess he's just someone else entirely.
    I guess this is a spoiler for a... fifty-five year old book but the Horned King was just a minion who really only showed up long enough in the Book of Three to slap around a kid a few times and then get his head exploded with a word of power spell. The actual villain for the Prydain series was Arawn who also went out in a pretty anti-climatic manner but in the last book of the series rather than the first one.

    Since they hacked five books down to one, they just went took the most visually interesting bad guy in the books (I can't even remember if Arawn even got a physical description) and elevated him up to main boss level. It's not too far off from Peter Jackson taking The Mouth of Sauron and making him the villain for a Lord of the Rings movie and just having his boss exist in references to The Ring.
    Complicating things since 2009.

  6. #7266
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    Default Re: Disney animation thread

    Watched Frozen 2 yesterday
    Spoiler:
    Did not expect the acceptance of war crimes and existential, crippling grief (all with the right coping mechanism) to be this central to the plot. Wow. You could still see the action figures flickering over your inner eye whenever a new character was introduced (damn son, so many toys of Elsa on that Aqua horse are gonna be sold) but it really gave us some surprising depth. I am flabbergasted and really enjoyed it.
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  7. #7267

    Default Re: Disney animation thread

    So even though I was pretty lukewarm about the first Frozen and though it was massively overblown, I went and saw Frozen 2 today. Because, hey, it's a Disney movie and cultural phenomenon, so I guess I may as well see it.

    It was pretty much what I expected. Liked it about as much as the first one, maybe a little more since my expectations weren't as high. If you like the first Frozen, you'll probably like this one, but if you didn't then this movie probably isn't going to win you over.

    Spoiler:
    -One of my bigger complaints about the first movie is that Elsa's powers felt really arbitrary. And this movie sort of explains it, but...not really. I mean, her powers still feel pretty random even with the explanation. So ice is the fifth element? Even though ice is just frozen water? And I guess the spirits that be just gifted the powers to her upon birth? I don't know, still feels like there's some holes here.
    -The songs were fine. Elsa probably had the two best ones (Into the Unknown seems to be the song Disney is pushing based on the end credits, though I think the second one was better). They're serviceable, but I don't any of the will be super popular or long-remembered classics. But then I didn't think much of Let it Go the first time I heard it, so what do I know?
    -Boy that was a lame payoff for Kristoff's proposal subplot. All that faffing about it and ultimately he just makes a normal ass proposal. No subversion, no character arc, he just proposes. Weak.
    -No new characters aside from cutesy, silent, one-dimensional, marketable sidekicks. And two forest people they arbitrarily gave names to. The head guard was the closest thing we got to a new faceted character.
    -So why did they build the dam again? Well, regardless, destroying Arendelle would have been a bold move, with Anna having to lead her people into an uncertain future, a la Thor Ragnarok. But no, Elsa somehow stops a tsunami with a wall of ice and the water kinda just...vanishes.......what?
    -Well, just so I have something positive to say, the animation was great. I especially like the water horse.

  8. #7268
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    Default Re: Disney animation thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiq View Post
    I guess this is a spoiler for a... fifty-five year old book but the Horned King was just a minion who really only showed up long enough in the Book of Three to slap around a kid a few times and then get his head exploded with a word of power spell. The actual villain for the Prydain series was Arawn who also went out in a pretty anti-climatic manner but in the last book of the series rather than the first one.

    Since they hacked five books down to one, they just went took the most visually interesting bad guy in the books (I can't even remember if Arawn even got a physical description) and elevated him up to main boss level. It's not too far off from Peter Jackson taking The Mouth of Sauron and making him the villain for a Lord of the Rings movie and just having his boss exist in references to The Ring.
    Something hilarious just happened because of your post. I was intrigued by all of this and looked up Arawn online and the picture for him is my current Avatar. That picture is not of Arawn or anyone in that book series, but Severian from the Book of the New Sun, my favorite series of books, ever. I truly did not expect to see that picture when I searched the name. (the picture is in the villain's wiki, for the celtic god, not the character)

  9. #7269

    Default Re: Disney animation thread

    So with my Disney+ subscription, I've finally started watching a show I've been meaning to watch for quite some time. The highly-animated Disney Afternoon animate classic, Gargoyles! (yeah, this one's pretty much for you, Robby).

    I've finished the first five episodes, which, yeah, how many shows can you think of that open with a 5-parter? But it's not excessive. Every part of it feels very deliberate and well-plotted, so yeah, the five episodes were warranted (well, I guess maybe you could trim one or two things, but that's nitpicking).

    First thing to point out, I knew this was going to be more "mature" as far as kids shows go (like BTAS), but wow, I was honestly surprised how intense things got. In the first five episodes we have blood, racism, betrayals, attempted murder, actual murder, real honest-to-god weapons (not that kid-friendly laser crap) oh, and, of course, genocide. And they got away with all that on the Disney Channel of all places! But hey, I ain't complaining.

    Anyway, the show has an amazing voice cast with Keith David, Ed Asner, Jeff Bennett, Bill Fagerbakke, Clancy Brown, etc. Oh, and of course we have two Star Trek alumni with Jonathan Frakes and Marina Sirtis.

    Right away, Keith David gives an intense and commanding performance as Goliath; immediately a standout lead. Hudson also works well as the elder and wiser gargoyle to keep Goliath in check. Brooklyn, Lexington, and Broadway are fine, but I hope they evolve a bit more beyond their jokester trio personas. Demona works as a good foil to Goliath, made all the more tragic by the fact that they are lovers. Elisa is a likeable and capable "strong woman", who, nevertheless, does have to be saved once or twice in this world of Gargoyles and insane billionaires, but she also saves Goliath, so never let it be said she doesn't pull her weight. And lastly we have Xanatos, the charming, ingenious, and completely underhanded and evil billionaire. He's like Lex Luthor, except hot (hey, as a straight man, I can still acknowledge when a man is attractive).

    That said, maybe I missed something, but I cannot for the life of me understand what Xanatos's plan was.

    Obtain gargoyle statues -> Resurrect gargoyles -> Trick them into thinking a rival company is attacking me -> Get them to steal data disks that I actually already own -> Meanwhile, build robot replicas of gargoyles -> Destroy all but one of the gargoyles -> Profit?

    Anyway, the animation is great too. Maybe a little rough in spots, but by 90's standards, this is some pretty amazing stuff.

    So yeah, in case you can't tell by now, I really like it and I plan to watch the rest of the series (with the possible exception of the Goliath Chronicles, which I've not heard good things about).

  10. #7270

    Default Re: Disney animation thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Nobodyman View Post
    So yeah, in case you can't tell by now, I really like it and I plan to watch the rest of the series (with the possible exception of the Goliath Chronicles, which I've not heard good things about).
    Wasn't completely bad but there's a reason that was the last season of the series.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiq View Post
    I've often wondered about that myself; seems like being supported by people who only want you there so the world can end in fire (with you going to Hell in the process) would be somewhat off-putting
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  11. #7271
    The English Avenger Satsuki's Avatar
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    Default Re: Disney animation thread

    Just wait until you get to the gun episode.

  12. #7272

    Default Re: Disney animation thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Nobodyman View Post
    I've finished the first five episodes, which, yeah, how many shows can you think of that open with a 5-parter?
    Rescue Rangers and Ducktales since those both first aired their first stories as two hour movies before breaking them up as five episodes for syndication. Gargoyles didn't bother with a film version of Awakenings for a premiere but just started off with the individual episodes. They did release a version of it for video that was chopped down by about twenty minutes.

    While shorter, Talespin started off with a four-part film and Aladdin with Return of Jafar along with Buzz Lightyear of Star Command with The Adventure Begins, both of which were three episodes. Most of the rest of the Disney Afternoon and ABC shows started with two part episodes.
    Complicating things since 2009.

  13. #7273

    Default Re: Disney animation thread

    Quote Originally Posted by andre View Post
    Book of the New Sun, my favorite series of books, ever.
    I've heard of this series and that its suppsoed to be good but I never find time for buying books or reading anymore. Elevator pitch on why its good, please?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nobodyman View Post
    So with my Disney+ subscription, I've finally started watching a show I've been meaning to watch for quite some time. The highly-animated Disney Afternoon animate classic, Gargoyles! (yeah, this one's pretty much for you, Robby).
    Appreciated I guess!

    #KeepBingingGargoyles

    I need to do a rewatch for the 25th anniversary but I haven't started yet. Nor do I have Disney+. But I do have the dvds...

    Brooklyn, Lexington, and Broadway are fine, but I hope they evolve a bit more beyond their jokester trio personas.
    They grow pretty fast. Each one of them gets a focus episode in the first season and they grow from there. Around episode 10 or 11 they make one last food joke about Broadway and the showrunners realized that was a bad one-note joke they were hitting too much and it pretty much never comes up again after that.

    My favorite when I was young was Brooklyn by far, but my favorite in my 20's turned into Broadway.

    That said, maybe I missed something, but I cannot for the life of me understand what Xanatos's plan was.
    Obtain gargoyle statues -> Resurrect gargoyles -> Trick them into thinking a rival company is attacking me -> Get them to steal data disks that I actually already own -> Meanwhile, build robot replicas of gargoyles -> Destroy all but one of the gargoyles -> Profit?
    He didn't own the disks. Those were his competitors data. He *staged* owning them originally to trick the gargs. And he mostly did that to see what they could do and if they'd be useful to him long term.

    Then they weren't as obedient as he hoped.

    There's also a lore reason for why he did the whole crazy scheme but spoilers. Also it technically never comes up in the show but explaining it would still be spoilers. Come back when you're done and ask again.

    And you'll get a better idea of how Xanatos works as things go. The trope isn't called "Xanatos Gambit" for nothing. Generally he has schemes where he's okay with multiple outcomes.

    (with the possible exception of the Goliath Chronicles, which I've not heard good things about).
    Yeah, the final season is VERY safe to skip. They fired everyone involved on the show (including the showrunners) and brought in entirely new writing staff that didn't understand the show at all. Its much more Saturday Morning kiddie fare with much stupider characters, no nuance, and lots of the cast not acting like themselves. Its very safe to stop after Hunter's Moon.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiq View Post
    While shorter, Talespin started off with a four-part film
    Of note with Talespin, the very first time they aired it, in prime time, it had a different edit from the actual show. More cinematic, a couple scenes held on cinematic pans longer, slightly different pacing... but most noticeably a whole song number and sequence with Rebecca and Molly that makes them sympathetic... that the syndicated version just cuts so she just seems incredibly unlikeable in the tv version without any real redeeming qualities worth saving over.
    Even weirder is the tv edit has snippets that movie-ish version didn't.

    Really weird that they never released the alt version but they didn't put a whole lot of care into their dvd releases.
    Last edited by Robby; November 25th, 2019 at 02:53 AM.
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  14. #7274

    Default Re: Disney animation thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiq View Post
    Rescue Rangers and Ducktales since those both first aired their first stories as two hour movies before breaking them up as five episodes for syndication. Gargoyles didn't bother with a film version of Awakenings for a premiere but just started off with the individual episodes. They did release a version of it for video that was chopped down by about twenty minutes.

    While shorter, Talespin started off with a four-part film and Aladdin with Return of Jafar along with Buzz Lightyear of Star Command with The Adventure Begins, both of which were three episodes. Most of the rest of the Disney Afternoon and ABC shows started with two part episodes.
    Oh yeah, I forgot about Ducktales. But yeah, that seems to be a thing (or was a thing) with Disney is what I'm getting.

    Not to mention all the failed Disney movie pilots that became direct-to-video sequels.

  15. #7275

    Default Re: Disney animation thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Nobodyman View Post
    Not to mention all the failed Disney movie pilots that became direct-to-video sequels.
    Atlantis was probably the worst hit. They had a series setup, was well into production. Movie bombed, they cancelled the series. Then cobbled together the first 3 episodes that were finished into a psuedo movie that didn't work at all.

    I'm mostly upset because there was going to be an episode that was straight-up a Gargoyles crossover. Written by Weisman, it was story-boarded and voiced and everything and would have been within the first 10 episodes.
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  16. #7276
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post
    I've heard of this series and that its suppsoed to be good but I never find time for buying books or reading anymore. Elevator pitch on why its good, please?
    A young torturer shows mercy by giving a woman the means to kill herself and is banished from his guild. Scifi disguised as fantasy.

    why it's good.

    Perfected language and layers of depth in plot and meaning, with an interesting setting that gets more interesting the more you try to suss it out. (time and place) The most fun I've ever had reading a book was going through it the second time and seeing what I missed that was in plain sight.

  17. #7277
    The English Avenger Satsuki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post

    And you'll get a better idea of how Xanatos works as things go. The trope isn't called "Xanatos Gambit" for nothing. Generally he has schemes where he's okay with multiple outcomes.
    Xanatos is one of the best reasons to watch the series. A great series is nothing without a great villain.

    Quote Originally Posted by andre View Post
    Scifi disguised as fantasy.
    That sounds straight out of Anne McCaffrey.

  18. #7278
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    Default Re: Disney animation thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiq View Post
    Rescue Rangers and Ducktales since those both first aired their first stories as two hour movies before breaking them up as five episodes for syndication. Gargoyles didn't bother with a film version of Awakenings for a premiere but just started off with the individual episodes. They did release a version of it for video that was chopped down by about twenty minutes.

    While shorter, Talespin started off with a four-part film and Aladdin with Return of Jafar along with Buzz Lightyear of Star Command with The Adventure Begins, both of which were three episodes. Most of the rest of the Disney Afternoon and ABC shows started with two part episodes.
    Ducktales yes, Rescue Rangers no. They aired a whole season before they got to the 'origin' story so to speak.

    What was weird was Disney/ABC's tendency to air episodes out of order even when that made little sense. So you get things like Darkwing Duck having the Justice Duck two-parter before we even got to see most of the justice ducks, or Bonkers mixing the Miranda Wright and Lucky Piquel episodes up together without explanation (and despite how different the two types of episodes were from each other).

    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiq View Post
    Most of the rest of the Disney Afternoon and ABC shows started with two part episodes.
    That's true early on, but by the time you get to Timon & Pumba, that stopped being the case. Only Mighty Ducks, Buzz Light of Star Command, and Lilo & Stich the series (which was dtv only) had multi-part pilots after that. Basically, when Disney TV really switched focus from comedy-adventures to just comedies.

    --- Update From New Post Merge ---

    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post
    Of note with Talespin, the very first time they aired it, in prime time, it had a different edit from the actual show. More cinematic, a couple scenes held on cinematic pans longer, slightly different pacing... but most noticeably a whole song number and sequence with Rebecca and Molly that makes them sympathetic... that the syndicated version just cuts so she just seems incredibly unlikeable in the tv version without any real redeeming qualities worth saving over.
    Even weirder is the tv edit has snippets that movie-ish version didn't.

    Really weird that they never released the alt version but they didn't put a whole lot of care into their dvd releases.
    Darkwing Duck is in a similar boat, if not as drastic. The original pilot got cut for reruns including removing the original version of the theme song. What's annoying is that they weren't restored for DVD despite being present in the VHS release of the pilot.

    ABC also had a different version of opening (as did the Disney channel) compared to the standard from the Disney Afternoon. The strangest is what happened to Double Darkwing: that has a completely different beginning between the original version and the DVD (I could only find the Swedish version of this sorry). I don't know when the change was made though.

  19. #7279

    Default Re: Disney animation thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Bugs View Post
    or Bonkers mixing the Miranda Wright and Lucky Piquel episodes up together without explanation (and despite how different the two types of episodes were from each other).
    The reason for THAT is because the Miranda episodes were actually made FIRST. The execs didn't like how those were turning out, fired the creative team, (which included later Gargoyles head Greg Weisman) and then the new team did the straight Roger Rabbit ripoff with Lucky.

    And then to add insult to injury, later did a segue episode to lead into the Miranda stuff as if she was the later addition.

    So they were mixed in like that because those episodes were actually finished while the others were still being made.
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  20. #7280
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robby View Post
    The reason for THAT is because the Miranda episodes were actually made FIRST. The execs didn't like how those were turning out, fired the creative team, (which included later Gargoyles head Greg Weisman) and then the new team did the straight Roger Rabbit ripoff with Lucky.

    And then to add insult to injury, later did a segue episode to lead into the Miranda stuff as if she was the later addition.

    So they were mixed in like that because those episodes were actually finished while the others were still being made.
    Yeah, I forgot about that (doesn't make it any less jarring though). That and they pulled the connection episode off the air after the Oklahoma bombings, which made it worse.

    Though personally (and I say this without having watched the show since I was a kids more than a decade ago), I prefer the Lucky Piquel episodes over the Miranda Wright ones. Roger Rabbit ripoff over Raw Toonage any day of the week.

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